Are You An It Contractor?

[M21er]

...

I have seen a ton of jobs at RBS

Hi

That's interesting - I received a call on Monday from an agency looking for Excel / VBA contractors for RBS ( Edinburgh ) - it's the first unsolicited call I've had in months.

Edit: To add 'for RBS'

Edited August 19, 2009 by M21er

[HPC001]

Yes. Very little work around here, I need to get more adept with programming languages and complete my degree to stand a chance.

[abaxas]

Yes. Very little work around here, I need to get more adept with programming languages and complete my degree to stand a chance.

Incorrect,

You need to lie, that's how contracting works.

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

I had an unsolicited call offering 6 fig permanent recently. But it required C# so I don't think I was qualified. Think it was banking/OLTP-transaction stuff.

Isn't this a function of the banking sector being especially screwed?

I work in a slightly different sector - we are hiring permies. Though I'm not convinced of the wisdom of that.

[Agentimmo]

Hi

That's interesting - I received a call on Monday from an agency looking for Excel / VBA contractors for RBS ( Edinburgh ) - it's the first unsolicited call I've had in months.

Edit: To add 'for RBS'

I heard that RBS let go a lot of contractors last year. For those that remained, they cut day rates by up to 25%.

I suspect they are now rehiring to fill some holes and that the new hires will be on rates equal or less than the current "renegotiated rates"?

They must have saved millions doing this

[HPC001]

Incorrect,

You need to lie, that's how contracting works.

Doesn't work if you actually need to do something with said skills, you must be thinking of consultancy where people bull**** and get paid 6 figures for it...

[Lone_Twin]

<SharePoint, Exchange, UC, Storage, Trainer>

I have a perm job but I do the odd bit of evening work and "holiday" day work for a couple of customers.

I'm cheap, have a perm salary to fall back on and can be used ad-hoc so I havent seen much of a difference in my work load.

[Barb E Dahl]

Yes. Very little work around here, I need to get more adept with programming languages and complete my degree to stand a chance.

Seriously mate, I'd forget the degree. If you want to really stand out, you need experience. The first thing people ask is how many years have you been doing C#, Java etc. Your degree will stand for nothing in the IT industry.

Get creative and get coding.

[Barb E Dahl]

I heard that RBS let go a lot of contractors last year. For those that remained, they cut day rates by up to 25%.

I suspect they are now rehiring to fill some holes and that the new hires will be on rates equal or less than the current "renegotiated rates"?

They must have saved millions doing this

RBS have a very high turnover. They like to keep their staff on their toes. If you join them, you know that you won't be there very long and hence make the most of it.

[Doom Lord]

Software Packager, rolling three month contract - been here for nearly five years. Just about to start a Windows 7 refresh so I am now optimistict as the workload has doubled and we are getting two new contractors in.

[Barb E Dahl]

Incorrect,

You need to lie, that's how contracting works.

It's surprising the amount of contractors who do this, just to get their foot through the door. Fantastic at interviews - I give them that.

[HPC001]

Seriously mate, I'd forget the degree. If you want to really stand out, you need experience. The first thing people ask is how many years have you been doing C#, Java etc. Your degree will stand for nothing in the IT industry.

Get creative and get coding.

The degree is going to teach me at least some of the stuff...the programme is business-oriented and includes 18 months of industrial placement. I've been largely hardware focused for several years up to this point.

I think you'll find that both a degree and experience are desirable. I've been turned down quite a few times because of a lack of the former.

[wickywackywoo]

Can you write?

Publishers like O'Reilly are always looking for professionals who know their stuff AND can write well. A typical advance is $5,000 - $10,000 for a book that takes 4 - 6 months to write in your 'spare' time. Royalties after that can be $20k/year for a decent title.

PHP, Java, C, C++, C# Objective C and SQL are all big right now.

Interesting idea. Most of the books I've read come across as having been written by somebody not working at the coalface, but sat their with a pile of reference manuals rewriting the appropriate bits.

Pretty sure I could write something more usual in the real world.

[wickywackywoo]

The degree is going to teach me at least some of the stuff...the programme is business-oriented and includes 18 months of industrial placement. I've been largely hardware focused for several years up to this point.

I think you'll find that both a degree and experience are desirable. I've been turned down quite a few times because of a lack of the former.

The degree is important to get you into IT in the first place. Once you've got some decent experience it makes little difference.

[Joey Buttafueco Jr]

I heard that RBS let go a lot of contractors last year. For those that remained, they cut day rates by up to 25%.

I suspect they are now rehiring to fill some holes and that the new hires will be on rates equal or less than the current "renegotiated rates"?

They must have saved millions doing this

"they cut day rates by up to 25%."

I've not heard this - it was more like 10%

[HPC001]

The degree is important to get you into IT in the first place. Once you've got some decent experience it makes little difference.

So why I am out of work then with this experience? You think I should sit here on the dole, slowly wasting away because I have no real income? Continue applying for lower level jobs that are saturated with applicants? What I have now obviously isn't relevant to the current demand, ergo I need to have dealt with programming in a business environment. Writing some SQL databases at home =! application support in a city firm.

Since Java crops up a lot, heres a typical ad for a developer:

Our client, a Top-Tier investment bank, is looking for a Java Developer with a strong Java background spanning Java 1.4-1.6 Server Side development, including multi-threaded applications, preferably in an Agile environment. You will also have knowledge of Unix or Linux and be confident, articulate, enthusiastic and able to operate independently with experience communicating directly with users and clients in a high pressure environment is a significant advantage. You will have the ability to switch between RAD when developing strategies for the desk to a very detailed engineering approach when writing framework code.

This role requires a combination of personality, technology skills and product knowledge and you must also have at least one of the following:

* Previous experience writing algo trading strategies

* Strong Rates/Derivatives product knowledge

You must also have a good degree (2:1 or 1st) in a numerate subject.

See that last line?

[porca misèria]

Can you write?

Publishers like O'Reilly are always looking for professionals who know their stuff AND can write well. A typical advance is $5,000 - $10,000 for a book that takes 4 - 6 months to write in your 'spare' time. Royalties after that can be $20k/year for a decent title.

PHP, Java, C, C++, C# Objective C and SQL are all big right now.

Erm, speaking as a published and well-reviewed author (mostly 5-star, nothing lower than 4star at amazon, for instance), I don't recognise those numbers at all.

And speaking as a veteran of some big projects, I also know several other authors who are well-respected in some of the fields you list. None of them is in that ballpark.

You want to make money writing, you need a pop book. Or a credible biography of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs would, I'd imagine, have much more potential than anything written for engineers. Maybe a history book might be a halfway-house.

[Bloo Loo]

Glad you brought this one up - i have just been flucked big time. Company changed my contract which was a 32k a year salary to a fixed term contract and lowered all our salaries by 12k.

They have just made it unafordable to commute 84 miles a day and i have asked them not to renew my contract end of September - what they are now paying me is equivelent to a dole check + my family tax credits.

talk about being shafted - thing is they are replacing me with a contractor on my original salary.

Thing is, the company we are doing all the work for has not cut the price and terms of the contract - just our company being greedy and using the recession as an excuse

ah, you are in the public sector...clearly the necessary cutbacks are being done.

Edited August 19, 2009 by Bloo Loo

[M21er]

I heard that RBS let go a lot of contractors last year. For those that remained, they cut day rates by up to 25%.

I suspect they are now rehiring to fill some holes and that the new hires will be on rates equal or less than the current "renegotiated rates"?

They must have saved millions doing this

They were offering £300 per day for the Excel / VBA contract with an initial theree month contract. I don't know how that compares with the current Edinburgh market or pre Credit Crunch?

M21er

[Lone_Twin]

The degree is going to teach me at least some of the stuff...the programme is business-oriented and includes 18 months of industrial placement. I've been largely hardware focused for several years up to this point.

I think you'll find that both a degree and experience are desirable. I've been turned down quite a few times because of a lack of the former.

But you would get the job with experience and no degree (I have a drama degree which in many ways is worse than having none at all but I do ok) if you have the degree but no experience the best you will get is bag carrying. (unless you land a grad placement which are like hen's teeth).

I speak from the position of:

Starting my career post university in IT recruitment.

Running the recruitment function of HR in an IT consultancy.

Changing my career to work in IT despite a lack of relevant degree or indeed any training.

Becoming head of IT, runing a small team and recruiting for it myself.

Experience is everything, unless you can rely on a very good university name / old school tie to get you into some kind of role in the finance sector.

Good luck though, just try not to believe the hype in the prospectus too much.

[wickywackywoo]

So why I am out of work then with this experience? You think I should sit here on the dole, slowly wasting away because I have no real income? Continue applying for lower level jobs that are saturated with applicants? What I have now obviously isn't relevant to the current demand, ergo I need to have dealt with programming in a business environment. Writing some SQL databases at home =! application support in a city firm.

Since Java crops up a lot, heres a typical ad for a developer:

See that last line?

I'm out at the moment and I have fifteen years experience, the last six or seven with solid .NET/SQL Server. There's just not much around at the moment.

The problem you have with the lower level jobs is MASSIVE competition, primarily from immigrants. I recruited for a £30k a year permie job at my last site, 80% of the CVs I got were foreign, mostly Indians (who had been working in Bangalore 6 months ago and just waltzed into the UK) and Eastern Europeans.

I say the degree is important to get you into IT but it would probably be more accurate to say WAS. Very few companies bother to train people anymore as they can pick from an endless supply of cheap foreign labour who claim to already be trained.

IT is sh1t to work in thanks to Labour's mad policies. Probably easier for people like me than for people like you trying to get in at the bottom end - but still tough though.

I agree you will find the occasional job that specifies a degree - but it isn't the norm.

[porca misèria]

Interesting idea. Most of the books I've read come across as having been written by somebody not working at the coalface, but sat their with a pile of reference manuals rewriting the appropriate bits.

Pretty sure I could write something more usual in the real world.

Many of them are. I recollect a few years back tech-reviewing a book, and the only decent bits were the passages copied verbatim from the (extensive) documentation available at the product's website.

My book makes peanuts in royalties. Its monetary value is in raising my profile, and I'm sure it's a part of the reason I got headhunted to a well-remunerated permie job.

[markinspain]

The writing was on the wall for contractors when that Scottish Git brought in IR35 back in the late 90's, whereby you were paying the tax of a permie with risks of a contractor. I'm surprised there are so many of you still going in 2009 what with the transfer east. Also, I always thought contracting was a bit of a smash and grab raid like working in the city? You know, 10 years of working like a dog while you're young and then retiring somewhere hot later.

Edited August 19, 2009 by markinspain

[Barb E Dahl]

The degree is going to teach me at least some of the stuff...the programme is business-oriented and includes 18 months of industrial placement. I've been largely hardware focused for several years up to this point.

I think you'll find that both a degree and experience are desirable. I've been turned down quite a few times because of a lack of the former.

It's highly unlikely an employer would turn you down simply for not having a degree if you had x amount of years technical experience and successfully proved your competence at interview.

[HPC001]

But you would get the job with experience and no degree (I have a drama degree which in many ways is worse than having none at all but I do ok) if you have the degree but no experience the best you will get is bag carrying. (unless you land a grad placement which are like hen's teeth).

That doesn't explain why I'm still out of work 6+ months later, after about 1,300 applications with no success. Just maybe you're wrong there? Perhaps other factors are at work?

I speak from the position of:

Starting my career post university in IT recruitment.

Running the recruitment function of HR in an IT consultancy.

Changing my career to work in IT despite a lack of relevant degree or indeed any training.

Becoming head of IT, runing a small team and recruiting for it myself.

Experience is everything, unless you can rely on a very good university name / old school tie to get you into some kind of role in the finance sector.

I did state I had been working in the IT field for several years...I was made redundant in January. Company closed up. I'm still young though, so I suppose that is a mark in my favour.

Good luck though, just try not to believe the hype in the prospectus too much.

I didn't actually read a prospectus I was actually looking at apprenticeships to begin with. Later I noticed the content of this degree (including MS\Oracle\Cisco certification material) and the amount of time still available to work. I feel spending some time bettering myself, and perhaps building up some connections would trump being stuck on the dole throughout the recession (based on the last 6 months of results).

I'm out at the moment and I have fifteen years experience, the last six or seven with solid .NET/SQL Server. There's just not much around at the moment.

More to it then, because there are no shortage of .NET\SQL type roles advertised in London\the Southeast.

Edited August 19, 2009 by HPC001