Is Government Good?

[Guest Parry aka GOD]

IS THIS STILL GOING ON?

YOU LOT NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME IN OFF-TOPIC AND RELAX AND HAVE A BIT OF FUN.

THATS AN ORDER BY THE WAY.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Asda seem to manage just fine.

Removal of service and other sanctions.

Everyone would be armed.

1. I was thinking in terms of roads, railways and such.

2. But as the service would not be centrally provisioned and given it would be a 'free market' how would this be enforced.

3. S you advocate a wild West like scenario a time when trivial arguments were settled by pistol duels.

[Injin]

1. I was thinking in terms of roads, railways and such.

Asda build roads.

2. But as the service would not be centrally provisioned and given it would be a 'free market' how would this be enforced.

By individuals.

3. S you advocate a wild West like scenario a time when trivial arguments were settled by pistol duels.

Of course.

[bill still]

The anarchy brigade just doesn't care.

Explain to me how without a central authority large scale infrastructure gets built? Or how property rights would be enforced? How would crime be dealt with?

[Injin]

The anarchy brigade just doesn't care.

If there are ways to solve problems that don't include violence, why not look at them?

[bill still]

Instead of the rule of law, the rule of the jungle.

Asda seem to manage just fine.

Removal of service and other sanctions.

Everyone would be armed.

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

Bill, you still haven't answered the question.

Friend, your obsession with govt collecting taxes by coercion is understandable, but myopic.

if you accept gov't is funded by taxation, and that taxes are collected by coercion, then why did you say that this sentence of Mises' was incorrect?

It is important to remember that government interference always means either violent action or the threat of such action.

[bill still]

Whew, the moon must have come up on Britain. The anarchists woke up to go out looking for victims.

IS THIS STILL GOING ON?

YOU LOT NEED TO SPEND MORE TIME IN OFF-TOPIC AND RELAX AND HAVE A BIT OF FUN.

THATS AN ORDER BY THE WAY.

[bill still]

Nah, I'm done with you. Sorry.

Bill, you still haven't answered the question.

if you accept gov't is funded by taxation, and that taxes are collected by coercion, then why did you say that this sentence of Mises' was incorrect?

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

Nah, I'm done with you. Sorry.

so instead of discussing facts you're just going to post meaningless shit like this?:

Whew, the moon must have come up on Britain.

I'm disappointed in you to say the least, Bill.

Edited August 10, 2009 by InternationalRockSuperstar

[MOP]

I'm sure the bankers and politicians would find this hilarious, the silly proles all fighting among themselves. No real threat due to complete lack of unity and direction.

It's no wonder they find it so easy to rule us and rob us.

Edited August 10, 2009 by MOP

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

If there are ways to solve problems that don't include violence, why not look at them?

The kind of non violence that involves everyone carrying guns and using them to deal with anything they perceive as crime?

[Britney's Piers]

Some humans always want more, by any means. Government is a conclusion of this. If it was destroyed I'm guessing it would take no more than three generations before a full fledged state returned, a new Rothschild already waiting in the wings.

[Stars]

Some humans always want more, by any means. Government is a conclusion of this. If it was destroyed I'm guessing it would take no more than three generations before a full fledged state returned, a new Rothschild already waiting in the wings.

That's my view presently

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Some humans always want more, by any means. Government is a conclusion of this. If it was destroyed I'm guessing it would take no more than three generations before a full fledged state returned, a new Rothschild already waiting in the wings.

In which case better the Devil you know?

[Injin]

The kind of non violence that involves everyone carrying guns and using them to deal with anything they perceive as crime?

Just carrying them is enough.

[the_austrian]

That's my view presently

But the difference is that largely, Government is not regarded as a crime. That makes it much easier for them.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Just carrying them is enough.

It sure worked out well in America.

[Injin]

It sure worked out well in America.

Yes, it did.

[bill still]

Faster than that.

The great British historian Nesta Webster is someone everyone should read.

British historian Nesta Webster, author of World Revolution, observed that Rousseau's writings embodied all of the principles that would later be known as Communism. In what is perhaps the most brilliant refutation ever devised of the Communist error in logic, Webster wrote:

"...ownership of property ... is not peculiar to the human race. The bird has its nest, the dog has its bone that it will savagely defend... if everything were divided up today all would be unequal again tomorrow. One man would fritter away his share, another would double it by turning it to good account, the practical and energetic would soon be more prosperous than the idler or the wastral. The parable of the ten talents perfectly illustrates the differing capacity of men to deal with money."

That was her justification for opposition to the communist notion of wealth redistribution.

Government is not in itself an inevitable conclusion to human greed. It's the way we humans try to keep things fair amongst ourselves. It's a gift, not a goblin. It's not human, it's a thing. It takes human interaction to keep the weeds out. If we ignore it because of our self indulgences, the bad guys will grab it. That's what's happened.

Hopefully in another century, history will write that this was the climax of the privately owned central bank era that enslaved most of the nations of the world without most of the population even knowing it. Hopefully, this will be seen as the first time humans saw how governments were taken over by the forces of evil and how -- just as President Jackson did in 1836 America -- the tide was turned.

Certainly our situation is very serious. Many have given up. Most don't even know why we are being robbed blind or by whom. I prefer not to give up. I prefer to go down trying to retake government for the benefit of the people in general, and I think most people on this Forum feel the same way.

Some humans always want more, by any means. Government is a conclusion of this. If it was destroyed I'm guessing it would take no more than three generations before a full fledged state returned, a new Rothschild already waiting in the wings.

[Stars]

But the difference is that largely, Government is not regarded as a crime. That makes it much easier for them.

That's a good point

Here is a question

Imagine you are part of a small community surrounded by other tribes; you have got your sh!t together a bit and have started farming and rearing animals, making tools, storing food and building etc.

What is the possibility that would be worrying you the most?

[Injin]

Faster than that.

The great British historian Nesta Webster is someone everyone should read.

British historian Nesta Webster, author of World Revolution, observed that Rousseau's writings embodied all of the principles that would later be known as Communism. In what is perhaps the most brilliant refutation ever devised of the Communist error in logic, Webster wrote:

"...ownership of property ... is not peculiar to the human race. The bird has its nest, the dog has its bone that it will savagely defend... if everything were divided up today all would be unequal again tomorrow. One man would fritter away his share, another would double it by turning it to good account, the practical and energetic would soon be more prosperous than the idler or the wastral. The parable of the ten talents perfectly illustrates the differing capacity of men to deal with money."

That was her justification for opposition to the communist notion of wealth redistribution.

Government is not in itself an inevitable conclusion to human greed. It's the way we humans try to keep things fair amongst ourselves. It's a gift, not a goblin. It's not human, it's a thing. It takes human interaction to keep the weeds out. If we ignore it because of our self indulgences, the bad guys will grab it. That's what's happened.

Hopefully in another century, history will write that this was the climax of the privately owned central bank era that enslaved most of the nations of the world without most of the population even knowing it. Hopefully, this will be seen as the first time humans saw how governments were taken over by the forces of evil and how -- just as President Jackson did in 1836 America -- the tide was turned.

Certainly our situation is very serious. Many have given up. Most don't even know why we are being robbed blind or by whom. I prefer not to give up. I prefer to go down trying to retake government for the benefit of the people in general, and I think most people on this Forum feel the same way.

Governments are evil.

They can never be anything else.

No government - no banker control.

[Britney's Piers]

In which case better the Devil you know?

Well I don't have an opinion on it myself since it makes no difference. The state will do what it will do, and will collapse if it collapses.

If you step on an ant, I doubt you care whether the anti was "pro" or "anti" your existence, or sat around on the ant-internet discussing the matter.

[the_austrian]

That's a good point

Here is a question

Imagine you are part of a small community surrounded by other tribes; you have got your sh!t together a bit and have started farming and rearing animals, making tools, storing food and building etc.

What is the possibility that would be worrying you the most?

That's where it all came from and yes, coercive collectivism certainly had good utility back then. But we are beyond that now.

[Guest BoomBoomCrash]

Governments are evil.

They can never be anything else.

No government - no banker control.

You might get taken more seriously if you ever offered a viable alternative. So far you'd come up with everyone carrying guns as the solution to crime. A pretty inauspicious start I feel.