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If Socialism Is Such A Looney Concept...


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HOLA441
My posts are independent of me. They stand by themselves. They don't will not change if I change. Their veracity has nothing to do with me.

I never said it did. You did.

Can you answer the question?

Yes.

What will you do if I come with my brothers to make use of the contents of the house in which you live?

Nothing.

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HOLA443
I never said it did. You did.

Yes.

Nothing.

No I didn't. I haven't said anything.

Good. Then Ill be round in the morning.

I guess you won't mind Merv inflating the currency away too?

Why don't you guys go and get a room? (no offence, your both great posters, but the sexual tension in this exchange is killing me :o )

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HOLA445
No I didn't. I haven't said anything.

Yeah you did.

Good. Then Ill be round in the morning.

Very good. Door will be locked, the dogs will be hungry and I might think you are going to attack me and hit you with something heavy, but go for it.

I guess you won't mind Merv inflating the currency away too?

Of course I mind.

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HOLA446
Very good. Door will be locked, the dogs will be hungry and I might think you are going to attack me and hit you with something heavy, but go for it.

Great ! So private property = violence

Violence is violence.

Not much difference between you and the violence of the state is there.

Pyschopaths the lot of yer !

Edited by Alan B'Stard MP
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HOLA449
Great ! So private property = violence

No, You seem to be mistking me defending myself with attacking others.

Violence is violence.

Not much difference between you and the violence of the state is there.

Pyschopaths the lot of yer !

Righto.

:rolleyes:

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HOLA4410
This is why I asked BBC to define his terms way back.

For me socialism = state control (and therefore violence)

Free markets = power of refusal for everyone (and therefore little violence)

The difference is the violence.

For BBC, I suspect -

Socialism = benevolent state handing down resources from it's infinite supply

Free markets = greedy men using the state to enhance their corporate power

Unless he defines his terms in some behavioural sense, we have no clue what's going on.

socialism isnt state control, that is state capitalism. to take resources away from one person and reallocate to another is capitalism controlled by a central body.

the system only works through the enforcement of rules and law.

socialism puts the control to the people rather than the state, bottom up rather than top down, like a co-operative.

in fact capitalism requires a large state in order to enforce the rule of the game. the evolution of socialism is towards no state at all.

nothing we have seen today is remotely like socialism because it doesnt work today. under a selfish society it doesnt work. it need to evolve in the aftermath of capitalism, and we havent finished with capitalism yet

countries like sweden are moving in that direction though.

for example you would hardly call the swedish government, a large oppressive government controlling all resources and how the population works.

Edited by mfp123
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HOLA4411
No, You seem to be mistking me defending myself with attacking others.

You seem to think I should be resisted from taking you for my own exclusive use.

I never agreed to that.

Not much difference between your fat and sinew and a chair. Both are carbon. Both are stardust.

One would look nice in my front room and the other nice in the cellar.

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HOLA4412
You seem to think I should be resisted from taking you for my own exclusive use.

I never agreed to that.

Not much difference between your fat and sinew and a chair. Both are carbon. Both are stardust.

One would look nice in my front room and the other nice in the cellar.

Interesting.

Why do you think you are only carbon?

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HOLA4419

also consider that profits are shared not between the shareholders and owners but the people that work there like a john lewis, or dare i say it, at an extreme level, an investment bank, where it is the workers that get paid the profits.

there is less need to tax people because profits are already distributed at the grass roots level, rather than the few owners.

its still possible to earn more than others (investment bank) but the change occurs in that the state doesnt control the means of production and allocate resources, the people do.

Edited by mfp123
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HOLA4420
also consider that profits are shared not between the shareholders and owners but the people that work there like a john lewis, or dare i say it, at an extreme level, an investment bank, where it is the workers that get paid the profits.

there is less need to tax people because profits are already distributed at the grass roots level.

its still possible to earn more than others (investment bank) but the change occurs in that the state doesnt control the means of production and allocate resources, the people do.

This post seems completely OT - what does it have to do with Injin's attack dogs or Alan's carbon fetish?

;)

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HOLA4421
There is nothing wrong with people forming voluntary socialist collectives as a means of providing for themselves, but any attempt at trying to run a centralized state socialist economy will fail because the economy needs price signals.

IMO that nails state socialism on the head. Besides, how people can always think that changing one banner for another will work or make any difference is beyond me. It's like been given a new job title for doing your old job. You can call yourself a landscape architect if you want, but you'll still be cutting the grass.

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HOLA4422

socialism.

That's right.

It's in human nature to be altruistic.

Deep down inside, everyone wants to slave away for the benefit of complete strangers.

That's why there's never any need to legislate for it, or coerce the population into doing it.

People just willingly work selflessly for the greater good.

not.

In the same way that school bullies use coercion to make you hand over your pocket money, 'socialists' use coercion to force you to 'be good'.

Anyone doesn't get that is a flaming retard or a liar, I'm afraid. The true altruists are few and far between, and tend (like me) to be that way because they can afford to be

Edited by PropertyGuru
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HOLA4423
socialism.

That's right.

It's in human nature to be altruistic.

Deep down inside, everyone wants to slave away for the benefit of complete strangers.

That's why there's never any need to legislate for it, or coerce the population into doing it.

People just willingly work selflessly for the greater good.

not.

In the same way that school bullies use coercion to make you hand over your pocket money, 'socialists' use coercion to force you to 'be good'.

Anyone doesn't get that is a flaming retard or a liar, I'm afraid. The true altruists are few and far between, and tend (like me) to be that way because they can afford to be

so er, who do you work for then?

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HOLA4424
Ok, so we agree that your position is that you have no unilateral claim to own your own body. This logic is consistent with me not owning the result of my labour.

Bogbrush can I ask a question? I see that you regard both your own body, and the produce of your own labour, as belonging to you. I assume by extension you would apply this to other people? What about other entities? Where would you draw the line? Foreigners? criminals? babies? orang-utangs? cows? horses? fish? bees? apple trees? oil wells? is it theft to remove the oil from the well?

Genuinely curious as to thoughts on this

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