Cinzano Bianco Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Would someone be so kind as to explain how we ended up going from £350bn to £1.4 trillion in debt in the 12 years of Labour, in a period of unbelievable economic growth? I think I must be missing something here, it is simply unfathomable to me how that could possibly happen... and I am genuinely at a loss to understand how this is achievable by even the worlds biggest group of morons. As an aside, does anyone feel that it is plausible that the main opposition party could be the Lib Dems following the next general election (with the Tories in power I mean)? Surely, for example, even the most politically motivated on budget moves (raising the top level of income tax) will have little effect in the traditional Labour heartland let alone elsewhere in the country... i.e. they're well and truly f*cked. Ta. the.ciscokid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishman Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Would someone be so kind as to explain how we ended up going from £350bn to £1.4 trillion in debt in the 12 years of Labour, in a period of unbelievable economic growth? I think I must be missing something here, it is simply unfathomable to me how that could possibly happen... and I am genuinely at a loss to understand how this is achievable by even the worlds biggest group of morons. We used to rule the world. Just look at all the pink on an early 20th century atlas. We've been on the slippery slope since WW1 - and WW2 finished us off. Since then we've been living beyond our means. What we used to plunder for free from the colonies of the Empire we have to pay for now. (Well, somebody keeps lending us the money to pay for it - more fool them !) We're finished and we have been for 60 years. We ARE the sick man of Europe, rather like the crumbling Ottoman Empire of 100 years ago. Except we can't accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryMeanReversion Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Would someone be so kind as to explain how we ended up going from £350bn to £1.4 trillion in debt in the 12 years of Labour The really short version is: Debt/leverage/boom/bust An alternative version is: Foreigners wanted to invest their savings Banks took the money, leveraged up to the extreme then lent to anybody that signed up to buy a house using this cheap money So much money was lent over a decade that the debt cannot be serviced Bank losses now dumped on the taxpayers. £1.4 Trillion is enough to increases 14 million mortgage by £100K, the rise over the last ten years. The numbers are not accurate but you see the point, a trebling of house prices in 12 years can generate trillions of debt. This is why this is the biggest bubble of all time. VMR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 We used to rule the world. Just look at all the pink on an early 20th century atlas.We've been on the slippery slope since WW1 - and WW2 finished us off. Since then we've been living beyond our means. What we used to plunder for free from the colonies of the Empire we have to pay for now. (Well, somebody keeps lending us the money to pay for it - more fool them !) We're finished and we have been for 60 years. We ARE the sick man of Europe, rather like the crumbling Ottoman Empire of 100 years ago. Except we can't accept it. Bang on the money there. If we were Romans it would now be 400 AD To answer the original posting the quantum leap under Labour has been due to massive expansion of the public sector to create 1 Million non-jobs, huge increases in benefits to build a Chav under-class that will vote Labour for ever (but they won't), utterly reckless immigration for the aformentioned reason and latterly bailing out of Banks who made monsterous lending mistakes, but egged on by a Scottish meglomaniac who knew eight years ago that the only way to sustain his economic miracle was to keep ramping up property prices for the feelgood factor to carry on. We are bust. The IMF will be here by the year end and most personal wealth will be destroyed or confiscated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearback Mountain Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Would someone be so kind as to explain how we ended up going from £350bn to £1.4 trillion in debt in the 12 years of Labour, in a period of unbelievable economic growth? I think I must be missing something here, it is simply unfathomable to me how that could possibly happen... and I am genuinely at a loss to understand how this is achievable by even the worlds biggest group of morons.As an aside, does anyone feel that it is plausible that the main opposition party could be the Lib Dems following the next general election (with the Tories in power I mean)? Surely, for example, even the most politically motivated on budget moves (raising the top level of income tax) will have little effect in the traditional Labour heartland let alone elsewhere in the country... i.e. they're well and truly f*cked. Ta. the.ciscokid The economic growth is the debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybil13 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 it's magic innitmain opposition party will probably be between the BNP(old labour voters) and LD's.Labour are finished. And yet the Torries would have done the same wouldn't they? We are so hypocritical. If Labour could stop property prices from falling we would all vote for them again, we just do not seem to be able to equate the terrible debt and the UK bankrupt to overlending and overborrowing on the overvalued property market do we? We being the vast majority of the UK population. Banks go broke, UK is broke but property prices go up LABOUR IS GREAT. Banks do OK, Uk starts to sort itself out, property prices go down , Labour is shit and should never be voted for again. Christ how did we get so miopic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustAnotherProle Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) The economic growth is the debt. Exactly, the growth was an illusion, it was all debt ( Debt is Wealth comrade) or am I totally wrong here? Just thought I would add a scary graph: Wow 2007...TAKEOFF...and yet the masses felt rich... Edited April 23, 2009 by JustAnotherProle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Would someone be so kind as to explain how we ended up going from £350bn to £1.4 trillion in debt in the 12 years of Labour, in a period of unbelievable economic growth? People have become rich; for there to be rich people, other people have to owe them. It doesn't get much more straightforward than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AskFrank Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 People have become rich; for there to be rich people, other people have to owe them.It doesn't get much more straightforward than that. Well put When the Elections finally happen, it will go down in history. I can't see how they will win one seat after this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.steve Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I agree sybil,that the tories would have loved the boom too.it started with the repeal of glass steagall in the states and spread worldwide. I think that engineering our current housing boom is an idea Labour stole from the Tories. It can't have missed the attention of the Labour elite that, in 1987 - after Thatcher's policy to target M3 had utterly failed, when house prices were getting out of control and spivs called YUPPIES terrorised London in tasteless Porches... she achieved an epic landslide victory... commonly accredited to her economic achievements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilchardthecat Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 And yet the Torries would have done the same wouldn't they? We are so hypocritical. I'm not convinced by the 'it would have been just as bad under the Tories' line. There is a fundamental difference in mindset If a New Labour voter gets a 10k pay rise, the first thing they do is work out how much more they can borrow, and what they can "get" with that multiple of the 10k If a conservative (small c) gets a 10k pay rise, they work out how much quicker they can pay off their mortgage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthe~ Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I'm not convinced by the 'it would have been just as bad under the Tories' line. There is a fundamental difference in mindset If a New Labour voter gets a 10k pay rise, the first thing they do is work out how much more they can borrow, and what they can "get" with that multiple of the 10k If a conservative (small c) gets a 10k pay rise, they work out how much quicker they can pay off their mortgage I think that is a tad unfair. There are plenty of labour voters in the older generation who would have paid off their mortgage, as the older generation was averse to debt as they saw it as slavery. Thanks to continuous bombardment over the last 20 years, debt was seen as nothing to fear. Personally I blame the decline in religion: If you aren't going to get your reward in heaven, you might as well slurge it on whatever takes your fancy. And I speak as an atheist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erat_forte Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 When the Elections finally happen, it will go down in history. I can't see how they will win one seat after this... Oh dear, I can see them winning rather a lot of seats all too easily. A combination of bare faced lies, back room deals, "postal" votes, pliant media and stupid self-interested electorate... I am not even betting on a Tory victory in a general election... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabHand Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I approach the would have been no different under the tories argument thus: We think the tories would probably be incompetent. We know the labies are definitely incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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