Todays Job Lossers

[Dave Spart]

While there is a great deal to be said in favour of enterprise, there is also a great deal to be said for diplomacy.

Thatcher never appreciated that point; regularly and unapologetically she caused great offence and polarised the country.

She may have had strength and determination in abundance but lacked the key qualities of understanding, warmth, encouragement and the capacity to inspire the lowliest, the weakest and most meek to fulfil their potential. To her the world was simplistic, black and white, matter of fact.

Blair identified the flaws in her character and exploited them to the full portraying New Labour as enterprise with empathy.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[1929crash]

While there is a great deal to be said in favour of enterprise, there is also a great deal to be said for diplomacy.

Thatcher never appreciated that point; regularly and unapologetically she caused great offence and polarised the country.

She may have had strength and determination in abundance but lacked the key qualities of understanding, warmth, encouragement and the capacity to inspire the lowliest, the weakest and most meek to fulfil their potential. To her the world was simplistic, black and white, matter of fact.

Blair identified the flaws in her character and exploited them to the full portraying New Labour as enterprise with empathy.

Thatcher was never obsessed with fighting wars the way that Blair was.

[Dave Spart]

Thatcher was never obsessed with fighting wars the way that Blair was.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Blair but don't forget there was that little thing called the Falklands War that did very nicely thankyou for Thatcher's electoral fortunes.

I dare say Obama's popularity will take a severe dent over the next few years so can we rule out the prospect of him resorting to war to get re-elected the way Thatcher did?

Besides if Bush had lost the 2000 election can we really be sure the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq would have happened during Blair's tenure? The Republicans stole the 2000 election just so they could have their wars. Even if 911 had still happened with Gore as President you can be sure the US reaction would have been entirely different.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[1929crash]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Blair but don't forget there was that little thing called the Falklands War that did very nicely thankyou for Thatcher's electoral fortunes.

I dare say Obama's popularity will take a severe dent over the next few years so can we rule out the prospect of him resorting to war to get re-elected the way Thatcher did?

Except that the Falklands was not a voluntary undertaking in the same way that Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Iraq and Afghanistan were.

[Dave Spart]

Except that the Falklands was not a voluntary undertaking in the same way that Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Iraq and Afghanistan were.

Some would disagree that the Falklands was involuntary, but whichever way, Thatcher did preside over more than 3 million unemployed for much of her tenure and frequently demonstrated a lack of diplomacy regarding their plight and that was the point I was making. True there would have been a proportion of scroungers among those numbers but most I suspect were decent people who would have been served better by a more rounded Prime Minister.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[Giordano Bruno]

huh? what do you think people will be happy? Not every body has the luxury of a secure job, if i lose mine i reserve the right to bitch and moan. No sympathy? No sympathy for those who've built a life dedicated to a craft to have see all they know wiped out? No sympathy because people have been f++cked over by a govt

oh i see, you're alright jack.

hope your cyclical business serves you well.

+1

[Guest sillybear2]

Some would disagree that the Falklands was involuntary, but whichever way, Thatcher did preside over more than 3 million unemployed for much of her tenure and frequently demonstrated a lack of diplomacy regarding their plight and that was the point I was making.

Of course no Labour official would be so insensitive.

The truth is NuLabour are so monumentally bad they have presided over and encouraged such moral, social and economic degradation of this country on a scale never witnessed before, they are simply beyond comparison to all the worst governments in history. The deceitful depths of the current regime are worse than the collective incompetence of all the governments of the 20th century combined.

Just as the scale and speed of the economic collapse is staggering and beyond the worst fears that many bears on here once envisaged, so will the legacy of Labour's impact on this country become apparent in time. The damage will quite possibly sink the next generation into a hole so deep they will curse the day NuLabour came to power just as German's now curse the Nazi's. If you believe I'm being dramatic, simply bookmark my words for future reference.

[Dave Spart]

Of course no Labour official would be so insensitive.

The truth is NuLabour are so monumentally bad they have presided over and encouraged such moral, social and economic degradation of this country on a scale never witnessed before, they are simply beyond comparison to all the worst governments in history. The deceitful depths of the current regime are worse than the collective incompetence of all the governments of the 20th century combined.

Just as the scale and speed of the economic collapse is staggering and beyond the worst fears that many bears on here once envisaged, so will the legacy of Labour's impact on this country become apparent in time. The damage will quite possibly sink the next generation into a hole so deep they will curse the day NuLabour came to power just as German's now curse the Nazi's. If you believe I'm being dramatic, simply bookmark my words for future reference.

I can't disagree with much of what you said, but it shouldn't be forgotten Thatcher made a virtue of crass insensitivity; in some quarters she was loved for it.

As for the young? If they have any sense they'll just leave the country to make a better life elsewhere. The beautiful thing about the transport and communications revolutions is their capacity to break down barriers. Distance no longer matters anything like as much as it did and states like the UK had better take note.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[Guest sillybear2]

As for the young? If they have any sense they'll just leave the country to make a better life elsewhere. The beautiful thing about the transport and communications revolutions is their capacity to break down barriers. Distance no longer matters anything like as much as it did and states like the UK had better take note.

As they've basically run out of ideas and lost the will to govern, stage two of NuLabour's plan for economic destruction will inevitably be printing money and wasting it in the most grotesque fashion possible. In this context the pound would be worth so little in terms of foreign exchange, British emigrants could become the new Poles.

Edited January 16, 2009 by sillybear2

[thecrashingisles]

I can't disagree with much of what you said, but it shouldn't be forgotten Thatcher made a virtue of crass insensitivity; in some quarters she was loved for it.

I can't recall anything Thatcher herself said which could be called crassly insensitive; it was more her cheerleaders.

[Dave Spart]

The aboriginies have a saying that makes a mockery of the whole concept of property (and by extension that of the state):

"Watching two men argue over who owns which bit of land is like watching two fleas argue over who owns which dog"

Bertrand Russell said it with more eloquence:

"It is preoccupation with possession, more than anything else, that prevents men from living freely and nobly."

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[Guest sillybear2]

I can't recall anything Thatcher herself said which could be called crassly insensitive; it was more her cheerleaders.

Mrs T was said to have gone off the boil towards the end, but she was never this deluded.

[Dave Spart]

Mrs T was said to have gone off the boil towards the end, but she was never this deluded.

Not that I'm defending Brown but at least he has never declared "We are a grandmother".

Perhaps its just a matter of time.

With regards to his saved the world comments, I don't think we'll ever really know if that was true or not. Matters were extremely serious last summer. Who's to say what really would have happened had the Govt down nothing? (Not that I necessarily agree with their actions).

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[Guest sillybear2]

Not that I'm defending Brown but at least he has never declared "We are a grandmother".

Perhaps its just a matter of time.

NuLabour declare rather more devastating things :-

We are at War

We are at War (again)

We are at War (again)

We are at War (in addition to the last one).

[Dave Spart]

NuLabour declare rather more devastating things :-

We are at War

We are at War (again)

We are at War (again)

We are at War (in addition to the last one).

Its entertaining watching you reply to my posts as you still haven't twigged it yet.

You can keep slamming Labour until you're blue in the face for all I care - it doesn't bother me because I don't support them either.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[Guest sillybear2]

With regards to his saved the world comments, I don't think we'll ever really know if that was true or not. Matters were extremely serious last summer. Who's to say what really would have happened had the Govt down nothing? (Not that I necessarily agree with their actions).

Look at the value of Sterling since Gordy saved the world, that tells you all you need to know about what the world really thinks of the UK and the muppets that run it. Hardly speaks for his heroic gratitude, does it?

[Guest sillybear2]

You can keep slamming Labour until you're blue in the face for all I care - it doesn't bother me because I don't support them either.

Thanks, I will! People need waking up from their inertia, this country doesn't need to be like this, why do they put up with it?

it doesn't bother me because I don't support them either.

Wise man.

[Dave Spart]

Look at the value of Sterling since Gordy saved the world, that tells you all you need to know about what the world really thinks of the UK and the muppets that run it. Hardly speaks for his heroic gratitude, does it?

You are refering to events that did happen. I was refering to events that that might have happened.

For your sake of your own health, untwist your knickers.

[Guest sillybear2]

You are refering to events that did happen. I was refering to events that that might have happened.

For your sake of your own health, untwist your knickers.

Things have only just begun old boy, stuffing a few billion down the throats of the bankers solved nothing in the longterm, that was just the end of the beginning, the losses keep mounting and the banks capital will keep eroding like an open wound. Q4 2008 was when the cluster f**k really impacted, that was after Gordy saved the world, the losses that are now mounting daily haven't even been factored into their balance sheets yet. A year from now unemployment will be >3m, repossesions will be >100k and those in arrears will be >500k, the continual flow of public money to the banks will be as futile as trying to bail the Titanic with a bedpan.

As Regan once remarked, "You ain't seen nothing yet!".

Edited January 16, 2009 by sillybear2

[Dave Spart]

Wise man.

Thanks.

That Thatcher, hey, what a bitch!

[Guest sillybear2]

Thanks.

That Thatcher, hey, what a bitch!

I don't care, she doesn't pretend to run the country anymore, unlike the present clowns.

[Dave Spart]

Things have only just begun old boy, stuffing a few billion down the throats of the bankers solved nothing in the longterm, that was just the end of the beginning, the losses keep mounting and the banks capital will keep eroding like an open wound. Q4 2008 was when the cluster f**k really impacted, that was after Gordy saved the world, the losses that are now mounting daily haven't even been factored into their balance sheets yet. A year from now unemployment will be >3m, repossesions will be >100k and those in arrears will be >500k, the continual flow of public money will be as futile as trying to bail the Titanic with a bedpan.

I agree with you its futile. We're just watching events after they tried to shore things up. The pound may have tanked, but what might it have tanked to had they done nothing? Answer : we just don't really know. A different hell would have broken loose for sure and perhaps the only good thing to come out of it might have been the hastening of the blood-letting.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Dave Spart

[Guest theboltonfury]

I dont wish to be harsh but I have little sympathy for those who get made redundant and moan

In these troubled times you should prepare for the worse and make sure you have sufficient capital for your needs and alternative stratagy for earning money, not simply relying on your employer to provide or the state. Quite frankly apart from the seriously ill I would not have any form of state handouts

Quite frankly the worse it gets the better the financial position of those of us who STR. I am now thinking that 60 -70% falls may be nearer the truth. We currently rent a large house in the catchment area of the best school in the county for £2,250 per month. and the landlord has been dropping hints that they would sell for £750k; it was worth £900k last year and if things go the way I feel they will I am looking forward to looking him in the face and offering £350K cash.That moment would be priceless

I work for a firm of accountants that specilise in bankruptcy and receivership and I have a business on the side doing maintenance work for blocks of flats in my area. We have an agreement with the owner of teh blocks of flats and our contracts are very secure. My wife works part time in the police and runs an internet mail order company specilising in cheap clothes and household items and is doing very well. We saw the downturn and took appropriate steps to ensure that we were in secure jobs with a secure fall back position. We save over 60% of our net income and have two children under 12 years of age. We both left school at 16 and jsut rolled up our selves and got on with it. Apart from the money we will inherit from our parents we have had no lucky breaks

What I fear is that the government will take pity on those who have over extended and keep interest rates low which effects my STR fund and stops the correction we all are hoping for. We also need to get rid of these meaningless jobs and start on manufacturing to create wealth and this will need in my opinion a realisation that if we are to become competitive then the minimum wage should be abolished.

There will for sure be initialy much pain but prices/incomes/rents etc will then fall into kilter.

I'm sorry, but you are a dick

[Miss Madam]

I'm sorry, but you are a dick

Wise words Boltonfury! Seriously, probably the only people made redundant that I don't have any sympathy for are any serious players at the investment banks which were let go (not the small fry!), as they earned ridiculous sums and if they didn't put any of this aside for a rainy day - when they had the chance and the funds - then hard cheese. I thought I was a hard-nosed, misanthropic, judgemental bitch, but sheeesh you've made me feel all 'fluffy' and 'sweet' in comparison!

[Guest sillybear2]

I agree with you its futile. We're just watching events after they tried to shore things up. The pound may have tanked, but what might it have tanked to had they done nothing?

You need to understand we're told this is a "global crisis" affecting everyone, and other countries have had to bail their banks, so if we're better place or even just "equally f****d" sterling should not have come under such intense pressure. That indicates there's something very wrong in the UK, far worse than the slowdown impacting all the other countries, because on a comparative basis we're very badly placed according to where people have been putting their hard cash in the capital markets.

Edited January 16, 2009 by sillybear2