Another Poor Barsteward Bites The Dust...

[Hector's House]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth....html?t=1000019

I don't think this poor woman has a leg to stand on.

Did this kind of thing happen in previous house crashes? Was there any kind of help for these fools?

[Dubai]

"At the time, they obviously over-priced the apartments, but being 1st time investors fell for their selling pitch"

Eh....?

Edited June 27, 2008 by Dubai

[Not Long Now]

I was rushed into signing the contract in the first place, where I received no help from my solicitor at the time. Morris picked this solicitor for everyone as they said they would like to deal with one solicitor

WTF!

I haven't read any of the responses on MSE, but this has to be illegal doesn't it?

[Not Long Now]

On a second read.....the post has to be wind up.

The flat has fallen in value I don't mind losing my deposit if I have to but they have said that I will have to pay the difference on what it sells for compared to the purchase price.

[Robert Federer]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth....html?t=1000019

I don't think this poor woman has a leg to stand on.

Did this kind of thing happen in previous house crashes? Was there any kind of help for these fools?

This person sounds foreign, so may have some excuse for their naivity. But, for crying out loud, signing a contract without reading it properly and not knowing how much rent would cover the mortgage payments, on top of it being a new build flat at the top of the market! Its beggars belief

I do have some sympathy but the words lamb and slaughter spring to mind.

Edited June 27, 2008 by Robert Federer

[Whoslaughing?]

Doesn't the expression "1st time investors" give you a clue? Oh dear! Anybody remember Amway back in the 80's. Back then it was loo cleaner that paved the way too riches..............

Sympathy? No chance.

[beans on toast]

I have signed the contact but we have not exchanged and I have not got a mortgage lined up.

She should walk away from this deal as she hasn't exchanged. She'll probably end up losing her 11K she's put in so far. Maybe a good solicitor can recover the deposit.

[grey shark]

but being 1st time investors fell for their selling pitch. We got the apartment because the incentive of 15% discount was our main interest.

First time investors , fell for the 15% incentive ...... tough titty imo , let them learn the hard way , no better way to learn imo

[Mrs Bear]

"At the time, they obviously over-priced the apartments, but being 1st time investors fell for their selling pitch"

Eh....?

I guess she left out the 'we' after 'investors', that's all. And she could have started with, 'In hindsight...'

I notice the usual crop of charitable replies on MSE - e. g "This is I am afraid what happens when you are greedy."

What sort of person sticks the knife in like this? And so hypocritically says, '...I am afraid...' when so obviously enjoying another fat helping of Schadenfreude pudding.

[mirage]

I guess she left out the 'we' after 'investors', that's all. And she could have started with, 'In hindsight...'

I notice the usual crop of charitable replies on MSE - e. g "This is I am afraid what happens when you are greedy."

What sort of person sticks the knife in like this? And so hypocritically says, '...I am afraid...' when so obviously enjoying another fat helping of Schadenfreude pudding.

Yes, I winced at that one too.

Lack of class.

And the advice is very simple: get a ******ing solicitor! Pretty obvious. You do wonder if it is a wind up.

Edited June 27, 2008 by mirage

[Mrs Bear]

Yes, I winced at that one too.

Lack of class.

And the advice is very simple: get a ******ing solicitor! Pretty obvious. You do wonder if it is a wind up.

I would guess not, alas. Have seen so many stories of supposedly reasonably intelligent people (ex teachers etc) who bought through the likes of Inside Track, having done absolutely no research on local prices or rent levels, and who never even visited the area, let alone the actual properties.

Can therefore imagine the effect of these loathsome sharks' sales pitches on punters who are on the thick side to start with, and financially naive to boot.

[the end is a bit nigher]

I guess she left out the 'we' after 'investors', that's all. And she could have started with, 'In hindsight...'

I notice the usual crop of charitable replies on MSE - e. g "This is I am afraid what happens when you are greedy."

What sort of person sticks the knife in like this? And so hypocritically says, '...I am afraid...' when so obviously enjoying another fat helping of Schadenfreude pudding.

Life's a bitch eh?!?!

And it wasn't me btw, but only 'cos I don't want to sign up for an account with the site

[The Conveyancer]

Doesn't sound right at all to me. It is usual with developers to put down a reservation deposit but that is normally around £1,000.

The solicitor sounds dodgy, when you are a recommended solicitor by a third party, although you have to try to keep them happy, your first responsibility is always to the client. A word with the senior partner and then with Law Society is you get no joy would be advised. Law Society guidelines say that a client care letter MUST be provided at the outset of a matter with the complaints procedure clearly stated.

If Contracts have not been exchanged she can get back any deposit she gave the solicitor (minus their reasonable fees).

Are people really that stupid?

[mirage]

I would guess not, alas. Have seen so many stories of supposedly reasonably intelligent people (ex teachers etc) who bought through the likes of Inside Track, having done absolutely no research on local prices or rent levels, and who never even visited the area, let alone the actual properties.

Can therefore imagine the effect of these loathsome sharks' sales pitches on punters who are on the thick side to start with, and financially naive to boot.

Yes, its a sad fact that we as a species vastly overweight the value of the opinions of nearby authority figures, hence the mass con. I have made similar errors too (thankfully not with vast sums of debt/money!)

It takes quite a bit of training/experience to think critically in high pressure sales situations where greed or fear is involved. It's why we have laws to do with selling, to protect the young and naive.

I think any and all inside-track type people need to be nailed to the wall in the courts. They must have been in breach of some rules or regulations.

[abharrisson]

WTF!

I haven't read any of the responses on MSE, but this has to be illegal doesn't it?

I haven't read the full thing but saw the mention of Morris and read they insisted they used their solicitor (which I'll bet was Fox Hayes)...... in fact I'll bet this all about Morris offering some kind of incentive hidden from the lender by way of atame solicitor and two contracts one for the sale and one for the "benefit" and I'll bet they now feel they paid over the odds for it.

Loads of people in this situation.. they are mostly to balme themselves.... and Morris in equal part.. a small piece of research would have revealed that many lenders (eg CHl) stopped dealing with Morris years ago.. and horror stories about them were everywhere...... but the customer equally didn't inform the lender of the discount or the valuer I suspect so if they don't give the full picture they can't be blameless.

And yes its all illegal... Morris designed a system to get round the "issues" and customers in their greed went along with it when a small pause for breath and a little research would have been the thing to do. Some people of bought property form them and "lost" literally £90k plus (I say "lost" becasue the properties weren't worth that to start with)

[The Conveyancer]

I haven't read the full thing but saw the mention of Morris and read they insisted they used their solicitor (which I'll bet was Fox Hayes)...... in fact I'll bet this all about Morris offering some kind of incentive hidden from the lender by way of atame solicitor and two contracts one for the sale and one for the "benefit" and I'll bet they now feel they paid over the odds for it.

Loads of people in this situation.. they are mostly to balme themselves.... and Morris in equal part.. a small piece of research would have revealed that many lenders (eg CHl) stopped dealing with Morris years ago.. and horror stories about them were everywhere...... but the customer equally didn't inform the lender of the discount or the valuer I suspect so if they don't give the full picture they can't be blameless.

And yes its all illegal... Morris designed a system to get round the "issues" and customers in their greed went along with it when a small pause for breath and a little research would have been the thing to do. Some people of bought property form them and "lost" literally £90k plus (I say "lost" becasue the properties weren't worth that to start with)

And nothing is being done about this.? When you act for a client on a purchase of a property with mortgage finance 99% of the time you are acting for the lender as well. Very occasionally they have their own solicitors and usually only on Equity Release mortgages. The solicitor therefore has a duty of care to both the client and the lender.

Surely once some of these properties are being repossessed the lenders are going to sue the solicitor for negligence, especially if the same solicitor dealt with all the purchases. The Law Society should do something as well, you are not allowed to accept instructions from a client who has been pressured to use you, you must be independant instructed by your client freely. Most developers have one favorite solicitor and then a couple of others they will recommend as well. This is such bad practice.

I have never seen this sort of thing happen to this extent. Sure some agents try to pressurise people to use bucket shops for the kick back they get but not to encourage fraud!

Maybe it is because I have only worked for well respected firms. Another reason to find a good solicitor and stick to them!

[OscillatingWildly]

I guess she left out the 'we' after 'investors', that's all. And she could have started with, 'In hindsight...'

I notice the usual crop of charitable replies on MSE - e. g "This is I am afraid what happens when you are greedy."

What sort of person sticks the knife in like this? And so hypocritically says, '...I am afraid...' when so obviously enjoying another fat helping of Schadenfreude pudding.

That poster - WellandPower - is a frequent HPC poster and one of our own! I certainly understand his enjoyment. I will not pretend to shed any tears for this greedy OP.

[Mrs Bear]

That poster - WellandPower - is a frequent HPC poster and one of our own! I certainly understand his enjoyment. I will not pretend to shed any tears for this greedy OP.

The OP invested in ONE flat, for heaven's sake. One x one-bed flat.

If you call that greed, we'll have to agree to differ.

And I'm not remotely surprised the knife-wielder is an HPC-er - there are quite a few Schadenfreude junkies on here.

[peahead]

I would guess not, alas. Have seen so many stories of supposedly reasonably intelligent people (ex teachers etc) who bought through the likes of Inside Track, having done absolutely no research on local prices or rent levels, and who never even visited the area, let alone the actual properties.

Can therefore imagine the effect of these loathsome sharks' sales pitches on punters who are on the thick side to start with, and financially naive to boot.

I am intrigued by the type of people who have been 'inside tricked' - it does often seem to be ex-teachers etc. - people you would expect to have a reasonable level of intelligence, a questioning mind and the good sense to carry out research and due diligence. Is there some common factor, gene, experience? Or were they just blinded by dodgy ties??

It does seem that over the past 10 years, the combined effect of Gordon Brown making conventional pensions less attractive, the fact that conventional pensions haven't performed as well, the common long-held 'safe as houses' belief that 'Bricks and mortar' are an investment that cannot go wrong and the HPI over the last 10 years has brainwashed this type of person.

I think it explains the reluctance now for the majority to believe that prices are going down, in particular an unwillingness to believe that their own property's market value has decreased since the peak (as they have a paved driveway and live in a cul-de-sac so they are immune) and is continuing to decrease (judging by Haliwide figures). They still believe the old supply/demand arguments and cannot seem to accept that this period is the norm, not the bubble of the last 10 years. They seem to think that we wil just revert back to lax lending and HPI after a short crunchy blip?? I just don't see us going back to 100% mortgages for a very long time. The latest pricing of mortgages suggests that the banks are pricing in 25-30% falls and anyone who hasn't got this level of equity or size of deposit will be priced out of the market until prices return to the historical norm of 3-4x income.

[Ash4781]

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth....html?t=1000019

I don't think this poor woman has a leg to stand on.

Did this kind of thing happen in previous house crashes? Was there any kind of help for these fools?

Looks like a MSE troll to me.

[Mrs Bear]

I am intrigued by the type of people who have been 'inside tricked' - it does often seem to be ex-teachers etc. - people you would expect to have a reasonable level of intelligence, a questioning mind and the good sense to carry out research and due diligence. Is there some common factor, gene, experience? Or were they just blinded by dodgy ties??

It does seem that over the past 10 years, the combined effect of Gordon Brown making conventional pensions less attractive, the fact that conventional pensions haven't performed as well, the common long-held 'safe as houses' belief that 'Bricks and mortar' are an investment that cannot go wrong and the HPI over the last 10 years has brainwashed this type of person.

Agree absolutely on conventional pensions - so many people have come to mistrust them. Never mind Gordon's raids, look at the likes of eg Equitable Life -my own brother was a loser there. OTOH property is a tangible asset - very different from shares which can plummet overnight, and whatever else happens people will always need somewhere to live.

As for the sort of people who were suckered in by eg Inside Track, I guess the salespeople employed all sorts of tactics to counter absolutely any/all possible doubts, and very likely some clever psychological techniques as well. A few months ago I was tempted to attend one of their 'seminars', just to see what sort of people turned up and what sort of sales tactics they used.

Only I didn't go in the end since I had better ways of wasting my time (like lying on the sofa reading a book).