Btl Distress Sale In Manchester

[detached]

This poor bugger even placed an in last monday Manchester Evening News. From what I recall the advertised 'asking' price (£187K) is about 40 grand below current 'market value'. Don't all rush at once !!!

For all you recent HPC wobblers, this is tangible proof that things are gonna start shaking soon baby. Perhaps we could set up a reverse auction for this poor investor .......

http://manchester-flat.com/

To all Mancunians out there, I would appreciate any feedback on 'Green Quarters' (Is it an exclusive and desirable group of appartments for young aspirational fair-trading young professionals or ..... another concrete tower full of overpriced, jerry-built shoeboxes ?)

[Mancghirl]

*applauds original poster*

A good find, I warrant there will be many more of these in the months to come.

The site is still under construction - it is a new build next to Victoria station (not generally a hot spot for new build flats). Most of the unbuilt stock remains unsold.

For those unfamiliar with the Manchester area, it has a lovely view of Strangeways prison and the late lamented Boddingtons brewery. Its on the junction of the Ring Road (so the moniker 'green quarter' is laughable). The only grass you'll be seeing there is the stuff you should be able to purchase from the dealers on Cheetham Hill Road - aka Stabsville - and luckily that is the exact location of the development!!!! Hurrah.

187k to live in Cheetham Hill......jesus.....you'll need to turn the telly up to drown out the sound of the drive by shootings.

Still, its very handy for the tram.

[needle]

I've said it before, so I'll say it again.

BTL is a NuLabour scam to get the middle classes to pay for social housing.

Blocks of flats like this are the tenements of the future.

[How soon is now]

Ah yes the Green Quarter, part of an obsession to label areas of inner Manchester. At least the Northern quarter is north of the city centre. "Green" Quarter complete joke - Cheetham Hill to anyone who's been in Manchester longer than 5 minutes.

Believe there is a water feature and some small wind turbines or something, little greenery though.

£187.5k is not good value for 710sq ft with no parking space, it's some way out too. You could get similar place in Castlefield for £180k (with parking)

[detached]

Many thanks for the feedback.

Wonder whether the developers of the scheme know about this 'offer'. If I were them, i'd buy the flat to keep things quiet ...... until local HPC'ers put print outs of the site in the mailboxes of the other residents (very tempted myself)!!!.

Like Needle, I am starting to think that all these 'executive apartments' being snapped up by BTL muppets all over the country could well be a cunning plan by Gordie to get mass social housing financed by the middle classes (the late sudden change to SIPPS being the icing on the cake ....).

The prospect of the Blairs making a huge loss on their Bristol 'investment' must also be very tempting ...

[neils]

Hey mancghirl love your summary... you should be an estate agent ! But this does bring up a serious discussion about new build. Obviously the massive number of developments could not be viable, and city centre manchster, didsbury etc. seem really hard hit.

I've had emails and calls from people trying to sell their new builds (1 year old with tenants), with excuses of special mortgage deal coming to an end etc.. Quick calculations show the deals don't even remotely stack.

Guess they really need some property investment education...

[howler]

I live (rent) in Manchester city centre and prices for flats do seem to be on the way down.

Take 'The Ropeworks' development - I used to rent an 'executive apartment there - typical rent for a 2 bed flat is around £750 month.

Looking at the sold prices information on Rightmove (I like to use this cos it avoids any spin - it's hard numbers)

1. Flat bought in Dec 2003 for £319,000. Same flat bought in Sept 2005 for £215,000

2. Flat bought in February 2003 for £182,500. Same flat bought in Dec 2005 for £147,000

If anyone wants to check this the postcode for the development I'm referring to is M15 4QJ and it's on Little Peter Street.

To me they are big drops in prices - how big do the price drops need to get before we refer to them as a crash?

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

That development reminds me of the monolithic concrete blocks of the 1960s, only tarted up a bit.

Here's a tarted up 1960s development in Sheffield, looks a tad familiar doesn't it?

Definitely NOT my dream home.

Edited April 1, 2006 by Bart of Darkness

[ToilAndTrouble]

I live (rent) in Manchester city centre and prices for flats do seem to be on the way down.

Take 'The Ropeworks' development - I used to rent an 'executive apartment there - typical rent for a 2 bed flat is around £750 month.

Looking at the sold prices information on Rightmove (I like to use this cos it avoids any spin - it's hard numbers)

1. Flat bought in Dec 2003 for £319,000. Same flat bought in Sept 2005 for £215,000

2. Flat bought in February 2003 for £182,500. Same flat bought in Dec 2005 for £147,000

If anyone wants to check this the postcode for the development I'm referring to is M15 4QJ and it's on Little Peter Street.

To me they are big drops in prices - how big do the price drops need to get before we refer to them as a crash?

We'd have to find some more examples to call it a crash.

E.g.:

18/11/2003 219 Apartment, 11 The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DB £233,100

16/01/2006 219 Apartment, 11 The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DB £210,000

15/03/2004 318 Apartment, 11 The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DB £150,000

15/11/2005 318 Apartment, 11 The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DB £135,000

30/03/2004 615 Apartment, 15 The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DE £278,500

12/08/2005 615 Apartment, 15 The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DE £230,000

01/02/2005 1101 Apartment, The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DB £650,000

29/04/2005 1101 Apartment, The Hacienda Whitworth Street West, Manchester, Greater Manchester, M1 5DB £595,000

It's the Hacienda ones originally sold in 2004 that seem to have been hit hardest. Whitworth St West, which was initially sold in 2002, seems to be selling at around the same price as back then... i.e. 0% growth in 4 years.

T&T

[How soon is now]

Yes I'd agree prices are falling in central manchester. But it's not really that surprising considering that renting is cheaper and supply is increasing. I've got a couple of mates you bought city centre flats 2-3 years ago and neither could sell for them for what they paid.

It's OK to rent in the centre for a couple of years, but I'd never buy there. (Err Manchester isn't London, OK it's convenient for work, but there's only pubs/bars in the city centre. You have to live in a rabbit hutch, when you can get a decent house not far out.)

Is there any evidence that prices are falling elsewhere in Manchester?

[MEtallic]

Flat in Green Quarter, bought on 11/01/2005, £174,600 , Apartment 8.4b, Lord Street, Manchester, M4 4AX

Sold 6 months later for £40K loss.

11/07/2005, £134,000 , 19 Melia House Apartment 8.4b, Lord Street, Manchester, M4 4AX

Edited April 4, 2006 by MEtallic

[howler]

There are loads of examples of flats in Manchester city centre selling for less than they were bought for a couple of years ago (or sooner).

Yet there seems to be very little appreciation of this amongst the people I know (I live in the city centre).

One thing that is interesting is that the rental market is very competitive - probably fuelled by people unable or unwilling to buy who otherwise would.

It seems to me that the market in Manchester city centre is on a knife edge - it's been kept going by BTL for the last few years. But this must be coming to an end - a £200,000 flat rents out for about £750 per month and that isn't going to cover the mortgage.

What happens when the BTL numbers dont add up anymore, interest rates go up or there just aren't enough people to buy all the new flats they are building everywhere?

Your thoughts please?

[Rachman]

Flat in Green Quarter, bought on 11/01/2005, £174,600 , Apartment 8.4b, Lord Street, Manchester, M4 4AX

Sold 6 months later for £40K loss.

11/07/2005, £134,000 , 19 Melia House Apartment 8.4b, Lord Street, Manchester, M4 4AX

It's not a £40K loss, you need to add in about £1,700 stamp duty, a grand in lending and redemption fees, the amount of extra interest he could have got on the capital put in and presumably monthly losses on the rent. I would say he's nearer to £50K.

If you want to see horrors, you want to try the £500K flats in Islington that were new builds in 2001/early 2002 - they paid top money and can't get out of them (proved by minimal volumes of resales). They have cost around £100K and more to 'investors'.....

[needle]

Best hide this from imupnorth - he'll have a heart attack..

[bob monkhouse]

excellent bit of research guys, lets try keep the manchester threads active

[pauluk]

Quote from above;

"It seems to me that the market in Manchester city centre is on a knife edge - it's been kept going by BTL for the last few years. But this must be coming to an end - a £200,000 flat rents out for about £750 per month and that isn't going to cover the mortgage. "

We have a smaller scale situation in Eastbourne marina. New development called The Boardwalk, 2 bed flats selling for £230,000 being let out at £650 per month. With house price inflation static in Eastbourne how is BTL making a profit?

Spoke to an estate agent who said the the cycle goes; 1. BTL purchasers snap up flats in a new development 2. Rent them out for about 3 years 3. Final stage glut of BTLs up for sale as owners either cash in or having trouble getting tenants.

[teachertim]

This is also happening in Leeds and they just keep building them ! Over 3500 new flats dut to complete this year.

[bob monkhouse]

hmmm, it seems ecspecially endemic in north-west cities. i feel the reality isthat btl are purchasing off plan at significant discounts, ie stamp paid/legal etc etc. I still cant see how yeilds above 6% are acheived at the mo'. Mind you, a mate of mine, first BTL property, doesnt seem to mind the fact that the rent isnt covering the mortgage, he see's it as a pension plan.

had to laugh at the prices being asked for the flats in the new hilton tower in town. mind you, think it will keep its value better than ancoats developments due to its position

[Katherine]

I agree - you can see the Green Quarter development as you arrive at Manchester's Victoria Station and its pretty dire to be honest. I believe they're trying to regenerate the area but I can't see it ever taking off.

[flash harry]

I agree - you can see the Green Quarter development as you arrive at Manchester's Victoria Station and its pretty dire to be honest. I believe they're trying to regenerate the area but I can't see it ever taking off.

Hi All,

I was in a popular Manchester city centre estate agents yesrday when I overheard a coversation an estate agent was having with a person on the telephone. The EA was advising the person that they were not taking on any city apartments from the green quarter becuase they were currently 'under valuing them'. The person on the phone did not understand 'EA speak' so asked what this meant. The reply,

"we are currently valuing properties from the green quarter at less than the price you probably paid for it becasue the area is not as well known as other city centre areas yet. If we placed you on our books the flat would lie there a year wasting your time and ours. If I were you I would rent it for the time being. You'll make your money in the end, you just have to wait a bit"

Considering the amount of flats coming onto the market in manchester over the next 18 months, this may not be the best advice.

What do you think?

FH

[Robbrent]

Where my parents live (Urmston area) I have never seen such ludicrous prices, properties that not so long ago would have been 48k now pushing 200k something will have to give!

[How soon is now]

Still waiting, lets be honest it's going to be another couple of years before we see any significant drops, if at all.

City centre flats may be falling, not sure about suburbia.

Urmston has improved over the last couple of years, even better once they get rid of that precinct.

What are 3 bed terraces going for now?

[propertyprof]

Still waiting, lets be honest it's going to be another couple of years before we see any significant drops, if at all.

City centre flats may be falling, not sure about suburbia.

Urmston has improved over the last couple of years, even better once they get rid of that precinct.

What are 3 bed terraces going for now?

I believe Sainsburys have just signed up as the anchor tenants of the new precinct that is to be developed in Urmston.

I wouldnt worry about the Manchester market, developers have realised they cant sell to many apartments over £250,000 .and are mow concentrating on developing apartments that are smaller and more afforable

[Converted Lurker]

I've said it before, so I'll say it again.

BTL is a NuLabour scam to get the middle classes to pay for social housing.

Blocks of flats like this are the tenements of the future.

I reckon you're on to something there, key is just how much will central govt fund local councils to buy it all up? The new house builders are deffo. sweeping results under the carpet, I reckon it's dismal out there for them..hurrah for John Prescott?

http://firstrung.co.uk/articles.asp?pageid...&cat=47-0-0

[bob monkhouse]

Good point. I do think that rental demand for the city centre will keep out the social however, although some developments in ancoats (otherwise knowen as 'just north of the city centre) well...hmmmm...