What Do Dwp Define As 'savings' For The Purpose Of Claiming Housing Benefit?

[wickywackywoo]

I face the same concern - working in what's left of the construction industry I know my job is at severe risk and my accumulated would-be deposit would prevent me getting any benefits. They do of course check your bank statements, and require details of any shareholdings etc; but they have no way of knowing how many accounts you have - your best hope is to keep your current account 'clean' - i.e. no trace of a transfer to a savings account. Subterfuge is essential.

I thought they could find all UK accounts in your name? Could be wrong on that though. I'd be very interested to know what they can and cannot find out/do.

[R K]

I would advise against signing any statement with the explicit intent to conceal money from the government, the tax authorities or the local authority. You may discover at an inconvenient moment that you are committing fraud.

As for Swiss bank accounts, don't forget that the US revenue recently got hold of US citizen account details held by UBS.

If you want to keep money off the radar it needs to be out of the banking system entirely and from personal experience I wouldn't recommend spouse or inlaws as a suitable parking place. I imagine those suggesting this route have never divorced.

[dr ray]

yep. this is the way to go

Deny the existence of the money.

If, after inspecting your historical accounts/bank statements, the benefits agency questions you with regards to where the money has gone, you need to say you pissed it up againts the wall or wasted it on the gee gees etc.

A further measure you could take is to feign depression and get a prescription for some happy pills from the doc before you embark on all of this. That way, when the benefits agency questions you about the money dissapearing you can use mental illness as the underlying explanation for your monetary loss. One you have got yourself medicalised, they will tend to give you a wider berth. This is particularly true for illnesses such as depression because it is so hard to prove falsehood. If you had said you hurt your back and so had to spend the savings to pay your bills, they could test this with a medical. With an illness such as depression this is so much harder for them to disprove. I mention depression because it is nice an vague. If you start getting specific, it become easier to specifically falsify your claims. So, keep it general.

Stress is good too and widely used by people in my profession and the police who wanted to leave work with preserved pensions.

The good thing about stress is that it is also difficult to prove but the treatment involves taking regular holidays, a round or two of golf and a bit of light gardening or other pleasant hobbies.

[PopGun]

I would advise against signing any statement with the explicit intent to conceal money from the government, the tax authorities or the local authority. You may discover at an inconvenient moment that you are committing fraud.

As for Swiss bank accounts, don't forget that the US revenue recently got hold of US citizen account details held by UBS.

If you want to keep money off the radar it needs to be out of the banking system entirely and from personal experience I wouldn't recommend spouse or inlaws as a suitable parking place. I imagine those suggesting this route have never divorced.

Either this or hiding it under the matress I am afraid!!

Spread the risk by dividing your savings and hide your stash under many different beds

My history teacher told me it was quite common to for people in the middle ages to hide wealth in sacks/chests in the wilderness or under the ground!

[The Conveyancer]

The tax man knows exactly what savings accounts you have. You pay tax on the interest on all accounts you have, or sign something to say you dont have to. Either way the tax man is going to know.

When we do a stamp duty form the different details go to over 20 departments of the Revenue.

As a wise friend once said, when in business mess with your suppliers, mess with your bank if you must but under no circumstances mess with the taxman. They are all knowing, they have more access to your information than the police, do not even go there.

If you need to hide cash it is best to owe your Mum the money and simply "pay it back". At the same time you get her to sign a promissory note confirming that you are in fact loaning the money to her. Should anything happen to Mum you claim the money back from her estate (so it doesnt get taken into consideration for IHT).

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Remember a thread, not sure where, about a recently unemployed woman who had some 8k sitting in a bank account but it was earmarked for very expensive service charges coming up on her flat, she had the letter to prove that these charges were going to be due in the next year. Yet the DWP said this must be counted as savings and reduced her benefit. Must admit though that if such cases were let through the system would be even more open to fraud so it's hard to come up with alternatives. I've wondered about offset mortgages myself, if they'd pick that one up.

Rather than legislate for offset mortgages, I think the easiest way would be to consider housing equity as savings Akin to the change in the mortgage interest payment benefit changes

So no benefits till you're mortgaged to the hilt.

[wickywackywoo]

******ing bunch of workshy wasters, the lot of you.

You make it sound so bad

[youthoftoday]

Rather than legislate for offset mortgages, I think the easiest way would be to consider housing equity as savings Akin to the change in the mortgage interest payment benefit changes

So no benefits till you're mortgaged to the hilt.

Why should illiquid wealth be counted as savings? Do they seize the chattels of the chavs and sell them? Granted you wouldn't get much for a playstation or burberry clothing down the local car boot sale but they get to keep their stuff so why should homeowners lose theirs?

[fiodyl]

Equity in a property you live in is not counted as savings ,but moving money into an offset account in order to claim state benefits would be classed as deprivation of capital.

[R K]

Either this or hiding it under the matress I am afraid!!

Spread the risk by dividing your savings and hide your stash under many different beds

My history teacher told me it was quite common to for people in the middle ages to hide wealth in sacks/chests in the wilderness or under the ground!

"Mattress backed securities". You heard it here first.

[Guest Steve Cook]

Equity in a property you live in is not counted as savings ,but moving money into an offset account in order to claim state benefits would be classed as deprivation of capital.

yes it is if the sum exceeds 16k. If it does, you are not entitled to benefits.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Why should illiquid wealth be counted as savings? Do they seize the chattels of the chavs and sell them? Granted you wouldn't get much for a playstation or burberry clothing down the local car boot sale but they get to keep their stuff so why should homeowners lose theirs?

I'm not saying it should be done, I was suggesting a way of further screwing the public but as has since been said, "offset" equity can be counted.

[Harry Monk]

I have to agree is DYIV, bunch of workshy wasters.

Anyway, in some ways it could be good. The collapse of the benefits system would do wonders for the country in the mendium term.

So if there are a million people unemployed, and then a bit later there are three million people unemployed, this means two million people have suddenly become workshy?

[Johnny Storm]

Only a mad man would pay for insurance that doesnt pay out depending on what savings you have.

[leddy1000]

hello

i am very soon going to have to claim job seekers allowance.

my question is

my sister has £67000 she has been saving towards a deposit,£50000 of it is an interest free loan from her company.

because of the u.k bank £50000 compensation scheme she decided it was wise to move the £17000 above the £50000 into another account,which ended up being my savings account.

now i may need to claim job seekers allowance,this may have been a bad move.

i will prob have to claim in the next couple of weeks,so dont have time to move it back out,as this would show up on my current account statement

i understand that when claiming i would have to show details of my account,like a last three months statement etc.

as you may see,i now have this £17000 which isnt mine in a savings account with the same bank i have my current account with

so im wondering-can i just show them my current account statement and details?

which only has a few hundred in it,or will they be able to track down my savings account?do they need extra permission or can they just ask my bank is there any linked accounts to my current account? etc

stupid to have got into this situation

also,whats the chances of them believing it is my sisters money?think i read that my sisters money or not,they will still look on it as my savings?

should i just declare my current account?can/will they check further?

sorry,that was very long winded,i know

thanks for yere help

[bagsos]

The tax man knows exactly what savings accounts you have. You pay tax on the interest on all accounts you have, or sign something to say you dont have to. Either way the tax man is going to know.

When we do a stamp duty form the different details go to over 20 departments of the Revenue.

As a wise friend once said, when in business mess with your suppliers, mess with your bank if you must but under no circumstances mess with the taxman. They are all knowing, they have more access to your information than the police, do not even go there.

If you need to hide cash it is best to owe your Mum the money and simply "pay it back". At the same time you get her to sign a promissory note confirming that you are in fact loaning the money to her. Should anything happen to Mum you claim the money back from her estate (so it doesnt get taken into consideration for IHT).

I deal with HMRC every day in my job. 10 years ago, when the old Inland Revenue was staffed with people with good degrees from good universities and they had a proper training and promotions system, I would have agreed with you.

Following the merger with Customs and Excise, they have now pensioned those people off and staffed it up with numpties who they refuse to train properly and in consequence can see all the information they like but other than by luck will never in a million years draw the right conclusion from it. The few good ones that are left are desperate to get out in my experience.

[laurejon]

hello

i am very soon going to have to claim job seekers allowance.

my question is

my sister has £67000 she has been saving towards a deposit,£50000 of it is an interest free loan from her company.

because of the u.k bank £50000 compensation scheme she decided it was wise to move the £17000 above the £50000 into another account,which ended up being my savings account.

now i may need to claim job seekers allowance,this may have been a bad move.

i will prob have to claim in the next couple of weeks,so dont have time to move it back out,as this would show up on my current account statement

i understand that when claiming i would have to show details of my account,like a last three months statement etc.

as you may see,i now have this £17000 which isnt mine in a savings account with the same bank i have my current account with

so im wondering-can i just show them my current account statement and details?

which only has a few hundred in it,or will they be able to track down my savings account?do they need extra permission or can they just ask my bank is there any linked accounts to my current account? etc

stupid to have got into this situation

also,whats the chances of them believing it is my sisters money?think i read that my sisters money or not,they will still look on it as my savings?

should i just declare my current account?can/will they check further?

sorry,that was very long winded,i know

thanks for yere help

They would consider it money laundering and you would have to go to prison, unless of course you are an MP in which case notify reception at the jobcentre and they will put you in touch with people who know how to smooth your path if you get my drift. If it helps tell them James G Brown sent you.

[leddy1000]

They would consider it money laundering and you would have to go to prison, unless of course you are an MP in which case notify reception at the jobcentre and they will put you in touch with people who know how to smooth your path if you get my drift. If it helps tell them James G Brown sent you.

problem is im no longer an m.p

i was voted out before all the new perks came in

now whats the chances of them checking for the savings account?

will i be alright just showing my current account statement?

or is it ten years in pokey for me?

what d'ya reckon?

as someone has said earlier

what if i just shift it out of the account,and when they see this on my statement,tell them the truth-its my sisters?

Edited June 2, 2009 by leddy1000

[pmc8130]

I deal with HMRC every day in my job. 10 years ago, when the old Inland Revenue was staffed with people with good degrees from good universities and they had a proper training and promotions system, I would have agreed with you.

Following the merger with Customs and Excise, they have now pensioned those people off and staffed it up with numpties who they refuse to train properly and in consequence can see all the information they like but other than by luck will never in a million years draw the right conclusion from it. The few good ones that are left are desperate to get out in my experience.

Alright I have to come clean here. Up until relatively recently I used to be a benefits fraud investigator. ("I'll get me coat").

So lets clear a few points up here regarding claiming benefits:

1) Capital & Savings: Any capital held must be declared wether it is held solely or jointly and this includes accounts where you use different addresses for accounts.

2) Notional Income: This includes such things as premium bonds, shares etc etc etc. Last I heard,they deducted £1 off your benefits for every £500 you hold

2) Bank/Building Society accounts: Any accounts that earn interest, the bank/BS shares details of these accounts with HMRC who then share it with the DWP. All relevant government depts then share this information between each other and with councils who administer HB & CTB in a process called "Data Matching".

3) If you are unlucky enough to be investigated you will be interviewed under caution. You will be asked to supply statements for all accounts you have failed to declare. If you fail to supply this information, Investigators have the power to request this information directly from your bank/BS for all accounts you hold without your further consent. If the case goes to court, the fact that you failed to assist in the supply of these details will be made aware.

And dont forget. Cases of benefit fraud are great for the local, regional and in very big cases, national papers, so think about how your neighbours might react to you or your childrens friends.

[pmc8130]

A quick example:

I received a data match file which showed that this guy had an account that he hadnt declared. After further investigating, I uncovered a total of 22 accounts that he had held during the time he had claimed benefits. At anyone time he had approx £82K in capital.

Bit silly seeing as he was only claiming about £5.00 p.w. ( yes five pounds. Not a typo) off his council tax !!!

[kilroy]

A quick example:

I received a data match file which showed that this guy had an account that he hadnt declared. After further investigating, I uncovered a total of 22 accounts that he had held during the time he had claimed benefits. At anyone time he had approx £82K in capital.

Bit silly seeing as he was only claiming about £5.00 p.w. ( yes five pounds. Not a typo) off his council tax !!!

What about making zero coupon loans to a company you may or may not be a director of? i.e. you lend 10k and receive back 12k in 2 years time with no interest paid in between?

Edited June 2, 2009 by kilroy

[pmc8130]

What about making zero coupon loans to a company you may or may not be a director of? i.e. you lend 10k and receive back 12k in 2 years time with no interest paid in between?

Any Investigator would lead this investigation as a disposal of capital to take advantage of the benefits system and would not be allowed

Edited June 2, 2009 by pmc8130

[scrappycocco]

Think I'm in a similar situation to others here. I need to be saving for my autistic brother but I'm in an unsecure stressful job. If I'm let go I don't want to be using the savings because the reason I'm working is to build up savings for my brother if something happens to me. Can't trust anyone to hold the money and don't want it eaten up by professional fees. It's such a screwed up system.

[laurejon]

Think I'm in a similar situation to others here. I need to be saving for my autistic brother but I'm in an unsecure stressful job. If I'm let go I don't want to be using the savings because the reason I'm working is to build up savings for my brother if something happens to me. Can't trust anyone to hold the money and don't want it eaten up by professional fees. It's such a screwed up system.

You can could put the money into a trust account, I think you could also claim tax relief on the savings not only on interest accrued but also on the contributions put in.

Have a chat with C.A.B. there is sure to be someone who has access to an accountants services for free, or alternatively contact an accountant for advise, it may pay dividends in the long run.

As you say a broken system that penalises those in the world that are just doing the right thing and trying to get by.

Many on here oppose the Tories, but one thing I like about the Tories is that what the working man earnt, he not only got the Lions share of it, he kept it for life.

Labour have plotted from the outset to destroy any self preservation and responsibility citizens have, telling them Nanny knows best in a control freakery that has overtaken them. They no longer have the money to be generous to those that dont contribute, and they are about to dump several generations of dependent citizens onto the scrap heap as a result.