redwine Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 http://www.mediaslibres.com/tribune/ Immobilier Loi De Robien et danger de surendettement Property the Robien law and danger of bankcruptcy The 23/10 Certain investers in the "De Robiens" are today in a high-debt situation many are strangled financially an estimated 7 to 10000 investors are in this situation many of them have gone to court to try to get there money back due to bad workmanship one for cheating in Paris and another for fraud in Toulouse Those that can't pay back there credits have no other solution but to ask the Bank of France to open a personal bankcruptcy case(quote) The "Robiens" are a French complicated tax reduction scheme you buy a new flat then you rent it out but for a nine year period and you can get a tax-rebate but if you can't find anybody to rent your property you get nothing hope that the link works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Professor Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 where in Brittany are you talking about? I agree generally with what you say, if you can work remotely Brittany is a great place, just wish it had some mountains. Shouldn't all the Brits be deported back home? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 http://www.challenges.fr/immobilier/ L avis des agents immobiliers sur la crise The EAs views of the crisis Today the 26/10 French EAs believe that 90% of vendors over-value there property 62% are lowering there fees 34% are getting rid of staff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 http://www.directgestion.com/ Section fil actu at 10.05 am the 30/10 Nexity 149 agences immobilierers fermees Nexity 149 EAs closed down For the group Nexity 90 agencies closed in the first quarter of 2009 44 agencies closed in the second 15 agencies closed in the third In September the Nexity EA network has 1450 agencies compared with 1599 in December 2008 The Guy Hoquet EA network badly hit and lost 95 agencies in nine months Century 21 lost 38 agencies Keops Residentiel today counts 34 agencies where as they had 50 last December Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 http://www.ouestfrance-immo.com/actus.htm 30/10/2009 Immobilier une legere reprise Property a light re-start Volumes down by -21% 4th quarter 2008 -42% 1st quarter 2009 -37% 2 nd quarter 2009 86% of old houses cost less than a 150k Saint-Lo average house price a 114k Basse- Normandie average price 130k The English are leaving and have stopped buying They bought 14% of old houses in 2004 2% in 2009 The property market is slightly getting better but this has to be confirmed in 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 http://www.lepays.fr/ Today 31/10 Region Belfort Alsace "After years of property madness times have changed and a lot of new projects have been suspended because there are no buyers" "One has even stopped being built the crane has stopped moving the scaffolding is deserted and material is left on the ground" "The new development "Heart of the town" has gone bankcrupt when you telephone the number no longer exists only 15 of the 61 flats (high standing) have found a buyer The banks who lent have stopped following this development Bills unpaid We are at a dead point As for the 15 buyers who have paid 30% of the price they are crossing ther fingers IMHO be careful of new French property developments that have not been built as they often go bankcrupt and your money vanishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Had dinner with a friends mother last night. They are pretty wealthy and have a close to 2 million Euro house (at the highpoint) in Goult in the Luberon. It has been rented to defer some costs, she said last this year has been a disaster with virtually no income. In previous years the income paid all running costs etc. She said that a the strong Euro had really got them worried about whether they could retire there. I started to mention the values going down but thought better of it......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Had dinner with a friends mother last night. They are pretty wealthy and have a close to 2 million Euro house (at the highpoint) in Goult in the Luberon. It has been rented to defer some costs, she said last this year has been a disaster with virtually no income. In previous years the income paid all running costs etc. She said that a the strong Euro had really got them worried about whether they could retire there. I started to mention the values going down but thought better of it......... Goult is a very nice place you are in "Peter Mayles A Year in Provence" not forgetting Gordes ,Mures ,Rousillon although Apt and Cavillon are not that nice it a beautiful area well worth going there for a holiday in summer I know this region very well and i have been going there for the last 16 years or so as we have family that live near Saint -Pantaleon Theres lots of rich French property owners there well hidden in there villas the locals say that the ex-president Mitterand had a villa at Gordes A great place for a holiday as for living there all year round thats another matter You did well not to mention the downturn not worth upsetting the property winners i could post a link of a "secret video "made in a EAs agency in Apt where they tell the truth of the downturn in the local market but if you look on ytube you can find it by yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Septic tank. be careful with the Septic tanks. Regulations have been tightened recently and the "fosse police" are going around the Poitou Charente at the moment enforcing them. Some people have had bills in the 20k range to make their systems good, although that is at the extreme end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 (edited) - Govt indirect taxation rising. Some "impot locaux" are going up by 20% in big cities. Just speaking to the mayor about the carbon tax, it seems nearly everyone has an exemption apart from private individuals... so it is just another stealth tax then. Oh SNCF on rolling strikes at the moment due to their "prime de deplacement" being scrapped. BTW Redwine they were linking your Haute-Bugey Geneve TGV link up to the mainline on Sunday, huge building works at Bellegarde and train delays at the moment. Some controversy over the 400 million project at it appears it will only cut the Geneve -> Paris time from 3h22 to 3h09 although this isn't seeing the bigger picture I feel. Edited November 1, 2009 by davidg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
righttoleech Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Goult is a very nice place you are in "Peter Mayles A Year in Provence" not forgetting Gordes ,Mures ,Rousillon although Apt and Cavillon are not that nice it a beautiful area well worth going there for a holiday in summer I know this region very well and i have been going there for the last 16 years or so as we have family that live near Saint -Pantaleon Theres lots of rich French property owners there well hidden in there villas the locals say that the ex-president Mitterand had a villa at Gordes A great place for a holiday as for living there all year round thats another matter You did well not to mention the downturn not worth upsetting the property winners i could post a link of a "secret video "made in a EAs agency in Apt where they tell the truth of the downturn in the local market but if you look on ytube you can find it by yourself ....... Please could you provide the Youtube link? Je ne pourrais pas devenir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ....... Please could you provide the Youtube link? Je ne pourrais pas devenir. Youtube.fr Type Super-heros de l'immobilier bande annonce no1 A dvd exists of a 150 recorded hidden camera interviews made in different regions of France in EAs agencies between 2006 and 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 BTW Redwine they were linking your Haute-Bugey Geneve TGV link up to the mainline on Sunday, huge building works at Bellegarde and train delays at the moment. Some controversy over the 400 million project at it appears it will only cut the Geneve -> Paris time from 3h22 to 3h09 although this isn't seeing the bigger picture I feel. I was in Genevea on sunday the tramway seems to be getting to the CERN but i still have to go through lots of road works to get to the airport I drove past the new station at Bellegarde a glass dome hot in summer and cold in winter IMO the SNCF are trying to attack the airlines on the route Geneva -Paris Air France Easyjet Swissair Alot of money spent for 13 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiterabbit Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Goult is a very nice place you are in "Peter Mayles A Year in Provence" not forgetting Gordes ,Mures ,Rousillon although Apt and Cavillon are not that nice it a beautiful area well worth going there for a holiday in summer I know this region very well and i have been going there for the last 16 years or so as we have family that live near Saint -Pantaleon Theres lots of rich French property owners there well hidden in there villas the locals say that the ex-president Mitterand had a villa at Gordes A great place for a holiday as for living there all year round thats another matter You did well not to mention the downturn not worth upsetting the property winners i could post a link of a "secret video "made in a EAs agency in Apt where they tell the truth of the downturn in the local market but if you look on ytube you can find it by yourself Yes I also wonder what its like year round. Very boring or very busy with touristes and traffic I would expect. Thanks for the link on Apt, I also think if I were looking in the Luberon area that "over the hills" closer to Aix, towns such as Loumarin or Cadenet would be a better bet for full time living. I have also heard there is a very nice suburb of Aix but am not sure of the name. Having said that I think that whole are is crazy overpriced even at 25% off right now. I actually looked at this house for sale near Apt in Gargas nearly 2 years ago, the greedy English owner wanted 400k Euros at the time for it plus all agents fees and thought it was a great bargain, it was rented to a British builder and his girlfriend, now its listed at 440k!!! It look sway better in the pics than in reality, where it has a shared driveway etc. is down in a dip with no sunlight etc. http://www.rhf1.com/details/3/Pretty-spacious-3-bedroomed-villa-with-pool-near-Apt-2519/Apt/euro-440000/2519.html Edited November 2, 2009 by whiterabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 http://www.lesechos.fr/patrimoine/immobilier/accueil_immo.htm The 2/11/09 Vous vendez un bien immobilier Pensez aux acheteurs etranges! Your selling property think of foreign buyers "A foreign buyer doesn't have the same perception of the property market as a local buyer does" "They are looking for something different a villa on the "cote d azur" an old farm in Brittany or a ruin in the Massif Central" Property sold at a higher price The foreign buyer knows that he is an unfavorable position for negociating when compared to a local buyer Average price for a French buyer 217K The foreign buyer 258K 50% of sales are paid without credit which stops lots of get out clauses like last minute backing out A study by BNP Parisbas international buyers Febuary 2009 I like the readers comment how can i get in touch with the future Brit or Dutch buyer ( to sell at a very high price or rip them off IMHO ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thod Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 France seems to be having an upleg atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 France seems to be having an upleg atm. http://www.immobilier-danger-com./Friggit-septembre-2009-194.html Friggit sepember 2009 Prices and sales for French property Prices going down Sales continueing to fall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Friggit sepember 2009 Prices and sales for French property Prices going down Sales continueing to fall Link isn't working the Friggit tunnel is on www.immobilier -danger.com or property= danger http://www.laprovence.com/ section economie immobilier the 02/11 "Avignon guerre de tranchee sur le marche immobilier Avignon The trench war in the property market A long article and just a few quotes the readers comments are good as well "In the Vauclause the property market is in a never known crisis" "Property prices have at last stopped rising but sales are down or a massive freefall" "Vendors believe that they have dropped there prices buyers are waiting for prices to drop even further The best quote "They were the kings of petrol bricks were the best investment in the world and sales profits were massive they even opened a bottle of champagne every-time that they sold a property" "The problem today is that today many vendors still believe that there property is worth more than the second "Palace of the Popes" at Avignon and they want to make a 100% even a 150% profit on the sale of there property" "Volumes are down by 40%" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://www.ouest-france.fr/ Front page the 06/11 France terre d' accueil des paysans d'ailleurs France welcomes farmers from other countries Brittany "France reached a high peak of sold agricultural land in the year 2000 a total of 1190 farmers were sold In 2009 we have a lot less British and Irish buyers due to the low exchange rates we haven't seen a single Danish buyer but the Dutch and Belgiums are still buying In 2009 we have concluded one sale with a farmer from French speaking Belgium The market is calm this year due to the crisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 http://www.bordeauxactu.com/ Section Deco the 06/11 Bordeaux "Deco le home - staging est-il vraiment une plus value immobiliere pour la revente ? Home staging is it going to make you a profit when you sell your property ? quote Count 500 to 3000 euros for a house Cassandre Baptise who works a local estate agent Guy Hoquet at Bordeaux says for a few hundred euros a sacrifice worth paying you can sell your property straight away between 1 and 3 months But Cecile Monteleone an interior designer who went self-employed and has created "Apparence"says I have arrived at a difficult time after 7 months of advertising on her website "i haven't had a single telephone call" I also spent 4 months visiting local EAs in the end i just gave up nobody seems to be interested my company never started" I like the before and after photos you can't tell which one is the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 http://www.lesechos.fr/ Section finances personnelles the 09/11 Residences de tourisme:le point sur les difficultes Holiday residences the point on the problems quote During the last two years the number of holiday developers (constructeurs etc) have gone bankcrupt has been increasing Quietude Resihotel LVR Mona Lisa Transmontage Pearl Hotels Resorts Development Atrium Tourisme Maisons de Biarritz Investors have deen caught in a trap as they don't recieve any rent which = no tax rebate More than 12000 co-owned property owners have found themselves in this situation Even if the crisis hasn't helped its the fault of the developers who decided to build these tourist BTR buildings in areas where there was no real demand for renting in the first place Example :Arreau in the Pyrenees two holiday residences containg a 100 flats each at 20km from the pistes charging very high prices also the local council who granted planning permission in the first place are also to blame Investors have to accept that there is an element of risk in property Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_bound Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Hi Redwine - I have been following your posts and links with interest over the past little while, all very interesting thank you for that. I am in the process of looking to buy a house in Provence (Northern Bouche du Rhone) - to live in rather than investment - although obviously looking to make the most of difficult selling environment. The agents down here are worse than useless, expecting that we turn up and buy without them needing to do anything, and showing any old tat they have on their books with no regard for criteria etc. I read constantly that half of French property is sold privately, but the pap.fr website, for example, only has 7 houses in our town - so where are the rest to be found? Are there any other frequented websites for private sellers and buyers, or recommended paper-based press that I need to start looking at? I am doing all the leg work anyway, so I may as well work directly with sellers and save the 6% fee! I would also be interested in your views on the market in this area if you (or anyone else) know it. Its obviously a very sought-after region for second homes from all over Europe, but volumes are way down on previous years (eg. I'm told that the town's tax revenue from house sales is down 60%). Asking prices don't seem to reflect this and people are still expecting to get whatever they want, and the lack of transparency and ability to compare with land-registry transactions as in the UK makes it difficult for us to gauge. There is a huge range of asking prices between agents for the same properties, and it can't all be down to varying commission levels so suggests that some are pulling a number out of thin air and offering sellers what they want the hear. Having said that, some price reductions are being seen for those houses that are failing to sell after a few months so there is hope yet... Anyway, any comments and thoughts would be welcome. Thanks, south_bound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smog Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I can't help on sources other than PaP, although one good tip I had is to use SeLoger, where it is possible to view the same property with many agents, and doing a little detective work with Google Earth, identify the property and go knock on their door.... a freind did this and ended up paying 300k direct instead of the 420k asking price.... it was very easy to do with a little local knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentimmo Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 South_Bound, some tips : You need to get local. Lots of sellers / buyers find their property by word of mouth. - Place a small ad in the immo section of a LOCAL paper. Make sure you say you are looking to buy only from a private owner "Agences 's'abstenir" usually means no EA's. - Place small ads in the local boulangerie and/or Tabac (newspaper vendor). I've seen a lot of these around my area. Most of the time it's free - If you must, place an ad in pap.fr or seloger.fr You might have to pay for this, but it could pay dividends. I don't know if you already live in the area you wish to buy ? Maybe rent for 6-12months and get to know some locals. Let everyone and anyone you meet know that you are looking to by without using an EA. Word of mouth can work wonders. Also, if you have kids of school age, talk to parents at the school gate and pass the word. My near neighbour has just bought a new place. Found it by word of mouth and bypassed the EA's. Has saved at least 6% in fees (new place is in the 600K€ range !!!). Now my big interest is to see how long it takes him to sell his current place and at what price.....will keep you all updated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwine Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 South_Bound as you say in your post there is no land -registery here in France which causes problems as nobody seems to know what the real value of houses are here in France and the only people that do know what price a house was bought and sold for etc is the French Government the Tax -man and they won't tell Smog and Agentimmo have given you some good ideas another website you can try is le bon coin.fr but they seem to have lots of sky high prices as well always rent before you buy if you are in France you can watch Enquete sur les escrocs de l'immobilier Reportage on property fraud The program "Enquetes et revelations" will be shown on TF1 the 1/12/2009 at 23h15 Heres a summary Corrupt property developers and builders Property developers that vanish with the future owners money before the property is finished Famillies that have to pay credit for houses that they can't live in or property that can't be lived in as its too dangerous due to bad workman-ship Every year thousands of French are victims of frauders The property dream turns into a nightmare For many there lives are transformed and they often end up ruinedand for several generations What is without a doubt one of the biggest scandals in French property with thousands of victims all over France A Madoff à la francaise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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