Romania And Bulgaria Join E U One Year Earlier

[Levy process]

Bulgaria and Romania into the EU. YES please !!!

Bulgarian and Romanian workers in the UK. YES please !!!

I own a large business in London. Recently i got rid of the the English workers and replaced them with Eastern Europeans. The Polish (quite stupid people) work for 1/4 wage, 10 hours a day, hard labour.

I had lots of problems with the British (always complaining) Health and Safety, they want benefits, paid sick leave, paid holidays, tea breaks, unions etc.

Only problems.

Since i got rid of the British my profits doubled !!!

Life is beautiful.

Now there will be Bulgarians and Romanians i think they are more intelligent and educated than the Polish i might use them to do some high skilled jobs.

My advice is stop complaining embrace the global economy and start making MONEY !!!

... until the Bulgarians and Romanians start creating their own businesses employing other Bulgarian and Romanian workers and put you out of business.

[Charles_Darke]

Immigration is lowering standards for everyone.

In Eastern Europe life is considered to be cheap, it will soon be the case in the UK.

Wrong, immigration is increasing standards for the immigrants.

It's not about raising or lowering standards though. It's about globalisation.

As various barriers are removed and technology allows more and more teleworking, you wouldn't expect someone to be paid 1p in country X for the same work that costs £10 in country Y. If you removed all barriers, you'd expect that wages around the world would eventually equalise.

Why pay £5 per hour to a UK person when somebody in China will do the same thing for 2p? The result: factories are moved to China. If the UK pays above the odds rates for a job (e.g. plumber) expect more workers to enter the UK to compete for the too-highly paid jobs until the competition reduces the pay. Just supply and demand effects.

All we're seeing is artificial barriers being removed and the economy being more of a free market. It will be painful for many, but people will soon realise that certain jobs will no longer be attractive and you will need to have skills that others are willing to pay a premium for.

In 2 generations time they will have the equipment AND the brains, same for China. We're up shit creek and no amount of kids in University will change that, in fact there are currently more undergraduates in China than in the USA and Europe combined.

Exactly, China and India are investing in future economies. The UK appears to be drifting without a captain and a purpose. The final wake-up call will come when the financial services industry in London is lost to Dubai.

[BARO]

Exactly, China and India are investing in future economies. The UK appears to be drifting without a captain and a purpose. The final wake-up call will come when the financial services industry in London is lost to Dubai.

Ha ha ha ha

That made me laugh on who will be working in the financial industry in Dubai ? The Arabs ?

The Arabs don't have a clue, these are simple minded uneducated people that don't even know how to extract the petrol from the ground.

The only thing they do sit and wait for the Europeans and Americans to extract the oil and pay them little to nothing, while the big oil companies take all the profit.

The end of Dubai will come in 20-50 years when OIL is replaced by Bio Diesel or other source of energy.

Then the Arabs will starve to death.

[Milkshock]

Exactly, China and India are investing in future economies. The UK appears to be drifting without a captain and a purpose. The final wake-up call will come when the financial services industry in London is lost to Dubai.

will never happen. you underestimate the socio-political power the west holds and will continue to hold over peoples mindsets.

Edited September 26, 2006 by Milkshock

[philippa]

will never happen. you underestimate the socio-political power the west holds and will continue to hold over peoples mindsets.

People are worried about the Romanians coming here. TEN TIMES as many are predicted to be headed for Italy and Spain. There are already problems with East Europeans there - both in big cities like Madrid and on the Costas. Add in the South Americans and you have a massive influx of low paid workers into a country with rising inflation and house prices but not rising wages. Mmmmm.

[Charles_Darke]

will never happen. you underestimate the socio-political power the west holds and will continue to hold over peoples mindsets.

but it's not good to be complacent as the UK government has been. there has been very little investment in the UKFS.

Dubai is building a world-class infrastructure. With a zero percent tax rate, I'm sure many banks will be tempted to relocate.

[peemac]

The end of Dubai will come in 20-50 years when OIL is replaced by Bio Diesel or other source of energy.

Then the Arabs will starve to death.

You're joking aren't you?

The Arabs were fantastic businessmen long before oil was a force and will continue to be so long after oil has ceased to be a force.

[sun n sea]

It will be painful for many, but people will soon realise that certain jobs will no longer be attractive and you will need to have skills that others are willing to pay a premium for.

But WHAT exactly are the skills that others will pay a premium for?

I won't pay a premium for a UK software developer- it's cheaper abroad. I won't pay a premium for a UK engineer- it's cheaper abroad. I won't pay a premium for a UK scientist- it's cheaper abroad. What's left? What are you going to telework to me as a UK customer? What do I need off you that I can't either buy from an immigrant working here, an overseas worker via the internet or an overseas manufacturer? Not much is the answer that comes to mind.

The free market- from what I understand of business means he who has the lower cost base and overhead has the advantage and dominates the marketplace. We aren't in the ball park- everyone else is cheaper than we are- in fact our own workers in our own marketplace are too expensive and are therefore uncompetitive.

If the UK pays above the odds rates for a job (e.g. plumber) expect more workers to enter the UK to compete for the too-highly paid jobs until the competition reduces the pay. Just supply and demand effects.

Right then, the UK plumber charges YOU over the odds BUT he still has to try and buy a house in the same marketplace as you. He's also got to pay the same taxes and living costs as you. UK plumbers charge you what is the going rate required to live in the UK and turn a profit. As a UK resident bringing in cheap immigrant labour deprives him of a living and you (in whatever industry you work in) of a customer.

This is the point- sending money abroad for manufactured goods and paying foreign labour for domestic UK work is all find and dandy in the free market... but to balance the books you have got to match the money leaving the UK with money coming back the other way... and we can't.

But we don't haqve to worry- the govt have done their figures and recon not many Bulgarians and Romanians are coming- they were spot on about the Poles so everything is under control.

[Wuluf]

But WHAT exactly are the skills that others will pay a premium for?

What do I need off you that I can't either buy from an immigrant working here, an overseas worker via the internet or an overseas manufacturer? Not much is the answer that comes to mind.

will never happen. you underestimate the socio-political power the west holds and will continue to hold over peoples mindsets .

The skill is often just being a westerner.

[Bagehot]

Lets stop blaming the Govt for immigrants. For the past 3 elections the English people have had the opportunity to have their say and too many of us have voted for pro-immigration MPs and some of us are now suffering the consequences.

[sun n sea]

Hmm- I don't recall any MP's asking me if I wanted a Million or so Polish immigrants in the UK- in fact as far as I can see the polticians do what they damn well please;

CCTV

ID cards

Speed cameras

War in Iraq & Afghanistan

Raising taxes

Big pay rises for said MP's

etc

etc

etc

Voting for any of the current political parties will make no difference- they will lie to get you to vote for them- they will call it spin but it's still a lie. Tony promised an end to corrupt government- and look what happened

[Milkshock]

will never happen. you underestimate the socio-political power the west holds and will continue to hold over peoples mindsets .

The skill is often just being a westerner.

yes, regrettably - cultural imperialism built up over centuries, and documented as the only history that matters, is all-encompassing.

[Caledonian-Emigre]

Bulgaria and Romania into the EU. YES please !!!

Bulgarian and Romanian workers in the UK. YES please !!!

I own a large business in London. Recently i got rid of the the English workers and replaced them with Eastern Europeans. The Polish (quite stupid people) work for 1/4 wage, 10 hours a day, hard labour.

I had lots of problems with the British (always complaining) Health and Safety, they want benefits, paid sick leave, paid holidays, tea breaks, unions etc.

Only problems.

Since i got rid of the British my profits doubled !!!

Life is beautiful.

Now there will be Bulgarians and Romanians i think they are more intelligent and educated than the Polish i might use them to do some high skilled jobs.

My advice is stop complaining embrace the global economy and start making MONEY !!!

You truly are inscrupulous fascist, capitalist scum.

Do you want to employ children too? Why not, it suits your ideology.

Who gives a toss if 20 of your workers die in an industrial accident - you can just get a few more. Simple.

Oh, and I bet you exploit women too - you sound lke the type who enjoys going to massage parlours to get your end away with trafficked women.

[twatmangle]

Just out of curiosity...

How many people here....

Have ever been to Romania or Bulgaria?

Have had a conversation with any Romanians of Bulgarians?

Have any business in Romania or Bulgaria?

Employ Romanians or Bulgarians?

Speak any Romanian or Bulgarian?

MrMangle

[BARO]

You truly are inscrupulous fascist, capitalist scum.

Do you want to employ children too? Why not, it suits your ideology.

Who gives a toss if 20 of your workers die in an industrial accident - you can just get a few more. Simple.

Oh, and I bet you exploit women too - you sound lke the type who enjoys going to massage parlours to get your end away with trafficked women.

I look after my workers. I haven't seen an Eastern European here that doesn't want or doesn't work.

All British workers that i had, were benefit cheats, they wanted me to pay them cash because they were claiming benefits.

Comes to work, works for 3 days, gets paid and disappears, comes back in next week after he finishes the money looking for work.

That's why i got rid of them.

I want even mention how the British workers steal and cheat if you leave them unattended half of the materials will disappear.

I am fed up paying taxes and feeding little criminals that don't want or won't work. Just live in council estates on benefits and as soon as they are old enough start stealing and terrorising the whole neighbourhood.

So stop slagging off the foreigners and be happy that they are here to pay for your benefits and pensions.

[Guest grumpy-old-man]

But WHAT exactly are the skills that others will pay a premium for?

I won't pay a premium for a UK software developer- it's cheaper abroad. I won't pay a premium for a UK engineer- it's cheaper abroad. I won't pay a premium for a UK scientist- it's cheaper abroad. What's left? What are you going to telework to me as a UK customer? What do I need off you that I can't either buy from an immigrant working here, an overseas worker via the internet or an overseas manufacturer? Not much is the answer that comes to mind.

The free market- from what I understand of business means he who has the lower cost base and overhead has the advantage and dominates the marketplace. We aren't in the ball park- everyone else is cheaper than we are- in fact our own workers in our own marketplace are too expensive and are therefore uncompetitive.

Right then, the UK plumber charges YOU over the odds BUT he still has to try and buy a house in the same marketplace as you. He's also got to pay the same taxes and living costs as you. UK plumbers charge you what is the going rate required to live in the UK and turn a profit. As a UK resident bringing in cheap immigrant labour deprives him of a living and you (in whatever industry you work in) of a customer.

This is the point- sending money abroad for manufactured goods and paying foreign labour for domestic UK work is all find and dandy in the free market... but to balance the books you have got to match the money leaving the UK with money coming back the other way... and we can't.

But we don't haqve to worry- the govt have done their figures and recon not many Bulgarians and Romanians are coming- they were spot on about the Poles so everything is under control.

[Guest wrongmove]

Just out of curiosity...

How many people here....

Have ever been to Romania or Bulgaria?

Have had a conversation with any Romanians of Bulgarians?

Have any business in Romania or Bulgaria?

Employ Romanians or Bulgarians?

Speak any Romanian or Bulgarian?

MrMangle

I've been to Bulgaria and I have collaborated in my work with a couple of Romanians and several Bulgarians. But I'm not spouting over-excited xenophobic clap-trap ! Coincidence.....

Immigration is an issue that seriously needs to be debated, but the likes of Laurejon are just making it easy for the pro lobby. They are preaching (ranting?) to the converted. They will not swing "floating voters" with this level of debate, IMHO. It is just a turn-off for anyone aged under 75 who cannot remember "the glorious empire" which provided so many jobs for useless chinless wonders of "high birth".

[laurejon]

Immigration is an issue that seriously needs to be debated, but the likes of Laurejon are just making it easy for the pro lobby

You are wrong, it is the rantings of people such as myself that have raised the issue to the level of debate as the Government are now fearfull of what the ranters will do.

People are sick of it all now, those who spent the last ten years telling the public how great it all is, the benefits being that we no eat curry and Goulash when infact we are all paying for it by working an extra ten years, and seeing an additional 25% of our wages go in taxation.

The empire was indeed the good old days. Take a good look at what is happening in the world today and you will realise it is because the empire was broken up that Pakistan and India are at loggerheads, that Kashmir is an issue, that the Middle East cannot live in peace, need I go on?.

However as you say those days are over, and we can never go back. But the Labour Party and the rest of the Socialists think we can go back, the new empire is the EU, and its going to end in some very big tears.