Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 And the wife and kids? Buy a family tent and pitch it in the living room of the property, make the roof and windows the first priority followed by the bathroom and kids bedrooms. The kids will love the experience of camping in the house and will remember it all their lives. A bit of 'hardship' in their early lives might prevent them from becoming part of the Entitled Generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sPinwheel Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 If you were getting close to buying before the credit crunch when prices were pretty much at their height, then why didn't you buy after the credit crunch when prices fell? Probably thought prices were going to continue falling. Then they went up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 You can buy them at auction too More seriously, all the doer uppers I've seen don't look worth the doing up effort, reflected in the fact that amateurs buy them rather than people 'in the trade' It's not worth the trade working on them unless they're a real mess because you have to pay VAT on renovations. Newbuilds are VAT free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Probably thought prices were going to continue falling. Then they went up..... If they just fell 5%, they were 5% less than when he was originally thinking of buying. I dunno, it all sounds a bit 'iffy' to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 It's not worth the trade working on them unless they're a real mess because you have to pay VAT on renovations. Newbuilds are VAT free. Vat on what precise elements of the costs of renovation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Vat on what precise elements of the costs of renovation? https://www.gov.uk/vat-builders/houses-flats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Buy a family tent and pitch it in the living room of the property, make the roof and windows the first priority followed by the bathroom and kids bedrooms. The kids will love the experience of camping in the house and will remember it all their lives. A bit of 'hardship' in their early lives might prevent them from becoming part of the Entitled Generation. That is completely unrealistic for precisely the same reason we’re not all super fit yoga freaks eating freshly prepared food every day whilst earning substantial extra income from our hobby businesses. Modern life is a daily grind of box ticking obligations leaving a sliver of time available to pursue other priorities when you’ve ironically been robbed of the motivation and energy to use it so follow the path of least resistance. That’s just human nature. For most people, having the time, energy and money to learn the skills necessary to complete a renovation on a reasonable timescale is even more difficult than their ability to earn the money to pay someone else to do it. The fact you have been able to shows that you are extremely capable but most people aren’t. And even whilst you can, it is far more difficult for you to do this than in recent history and that is the problem we’re upset about. You’ve won the lottery and you didn’t even know that you bought a ticket. I’ve got 2 young children and we’ve spent the best part of a year renovating a property and lived in most of that time. This should not be how people are forced to live. A bit of 'hardship' in their early lives might prevent them from becoming part of the Entitled Generation. That hasn't helped the luckiest generation who ever lived, has it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) That is completely unrealistic for precisely the same reason were not all super fit yoga freaks eating freshly prepared food every day whilst earning substantial extra income from our hobby businesses. Modern life is a daily grind of box ticking obligations leaving a sliver of time available to pursue other priorities when youve ironically been robbed of the motivation and energy to use it so follow the path of least resistance. Thats just human nature. For most people, having the time, energy and money to learn the skills necessary to complete a renovation on a reasonable timescale is even more difficult than their ability to earn the money to pay someone else to do it. The fact you have been able to shows that you are extremely capable but most people arent. And even whilst you can, it is far more difficult for you to do this than in recent history and that is the problem were upset about. Youve won the lottery and you didnt even know that you bought a ticket. Ive got 2 young children and weve spent the best part of a year renovating a property and lived in most of that time. This should not be how people are forced to live. That hasn't helped the luckiest generation who ever lived, has it? Nice post.Doing up properties has become so trendy that I think it can be very difficult to find value in doer upper properties, and as you say you need additional intangible resources to make it worthwhile. Nearby family would probably help too. Edited December 9, 2015 by Si1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 https://www.gov.uk/vat-builders/houses-flats Interesting. So if you are 20% less efficient than a builder then you break even with a builder in the renovation stakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I agree with 25 mortgage 8itch. If you're in a position to buy even a doer-upper in many parts of the country, the chances are you (and likely your OH too) have a demanding job, possibly a long commute and are the wrong side of 35 (and hence not as energetic as you were in your early 20s/ and also have kids). It will perhaps be cheaper to DIY - providing you know what you are doing and have contacts to get cheap materials. But you will pay for the difference in your time. For anyone considering buying, you do what is right for your circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 That is completely unrealistic for precisely the same reason we’re not all super fit yoga freaks eating freshly prepared food every day whilst earning substantial extra income from our hobby businesses. Modern life is a daily grind of box ticking obligations leaving a sliver of time available to pursue other priorities when you’ve ironically been robbed of the motivation and energy to use it so follow the path of least resistance. That’s just human nature. For most people, having the time, energy and money to learn the skills necessary to complete a renovation on a reasonable timescale is even more difficult than their ability to earn the money to pay someone else to do it. The fact you have been able to shows that you are extremely capable but most people aren’t. And even whilst you can, it is far more difficult for you to do this than in recent history and that is the problem we’re upset about. You’ve won the lottery and you didn’t even know that you bought a ticket. I’ve got 2 young children and we’ve spent the best part of a year renovating a property and lived in most of that time. This should not be how people are forced to live. That hasn't helped the luckiest generation who ever lived, has it? Unrealistic and difficult, yet in the next breath you say that's exactly what you are doing. You're not being forced to live in it, it was your choice to buy the property after all, but once it's finished you'll have the rest of your life to enjoy your hard work. Some people get things handed to them on a plate, the rest of us have to fight for it, but at the end of the day, we're the ones who appreciate what we have the most. I'm not superfit and definitely not rich. I was homeless for a while, spent some time couch surfing and a good many years sharing awful rental properties. I had no idea of how to renovate a house when I first started. I watched loads of youtube videos to learn. I also looked on freecycle and local boards for free tools, building supplies, etc. I got enough free plasterboard to do the living room. It's amazing what people are willing to give away if you are willing to rock up and take it off their hands. A lot of the large DIY chains have loss leaders in the their sales, so they're useful too. I'm not sure why you've been robbed of motivation and energy or why your life is a daily grind, but if I were you I'd look at how you remedy that as my top priority. If the grind is because you hate your job, then find another. You only have one life and it's gone in a heartbeat. Make the most of it. Maybe buying a house is a much lower priority than having a happier life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairyland Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 There is a middle ground. Use your deposit to buy a knackered place at auction and live in itwhile you do it up. If the property is without a kitchen and bathroom like mine was, then you get reduced council tax while you renovate, just don't mention that you're dossing there. You get a cheap home, live rent free and when you finish the renovations you get a crash proof house. Reduced council tax or any other reduced tax feels very good, however, how do you live in a house without kitchen/bathroom? Will the lender deem it as habitable? Kitchen, I can do with microwave/fresh meals(salads/fruits) but bathroom? What do you do if your kid has a stomach bug and needs loo trip in the midnight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairyland Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) To all those folks who are happily renting, what happens if you can't own a home by retirement? Where do you live afterwards? The LL will want to kick you out as soon as your income stops? Edited December 9, 2015 by Fairyland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 To all those folks who are happily renting, what happens if you can't own a home by retirement? Where do you live afterwards? The LL will want to kick you out as soon as your income stops? Err, you own other income generating assets that are currently better value than houses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) Reduced council tax or any other reduced tax feels very good, however, how do you live in a house without kitchen/bathroom? Will the lender deem it as habitable? Kitchen, I can do with microwave/fresh meals(salads/fruits) but bathroom? What do you do if your kid has a stomach bug and needs loo trip in the midnight? No. Probably un-mortgageable from my limited experience of such properties. Edited December 9, 2015 by 25 year mortgage 8itch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairyland Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Err, you own other income generating assets that are currently better value than houses? Sounds good. Which income generating assets? Some examples? How do you own them. At them moment extortionate rent + bills = zero/negligible saving left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Reduced council tax or any other reduced tax feels very good, however, how do you live in a house without kitchen/bathroom? Will the lender deem it as habitable? Kitchen, I can do with microwave/fresh meals(salads/fruits) but bathroom? What do you do if your kid has a stomach bug and needs loo trip in the midnight? Reduced council tax or any other reduced tax feels very good, however, how do you live in a house without kitchen/bathroom? Will the lender deem it as habitable? Kitchen, I can do with microwave/fresh meals(salads/fruits) but bathroom? What do you do if your kid has a stomach bug and needs loo trip in the midnight? I guess you don't buy a house with no bathroom then? Or just fit one when the council bloke has visited and ticked off his list. It doesn't take a day though to fit a toilet, especially if its a temporary thing while you sort out the rest of the house. One of my first skip dives was to retrieve an avocado coloured bathroom set someone had thrown away. Bathing in cold water was a bit rough until I sourced a combi boiler. I got one for scrap value because it was being replaced by a new condensing model, nothing wrong with it except it wasn't A rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 To all those folks who are happily renting, what happens if you can't own a home by retirement? Where do you live afterwards? The LL will want to kick you out as soon as your income stops? erm, use your pension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Sounds good. Which income generating assets? Some examples? How do you own them. At them moment extortionate rent + bills = zero/negligible saving left. I'm not going to tell you as it's a waste of my time. As to rents, I myself find rentals to be decent value, but live in Leeds. Many people report problems with rentals in London, which is contradicted by KB however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I guess you don't buy a house with no bathroom then? Or just fit one when the council bloke has visited and ticked off his list. It doesn't take a day though to fit a toilet, especially if its a temporary thing while you sort out the rest of the house. One of my first skip dives was to retrieve an avocado coloured bathroom set someone had thrown away. Bathing in cold water was a bit rough until I sourced a combi boiler. I got one for scrap value because it was being replaced by a new condensing model, nothing wrong with it except it wasn't A rated. I have to say I'm impressed. That would have to be classed as part-hobby the way you're waxing about it:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I have to say I'm impressed. That would have to be classed as part-hobby the way you're waxing about it:) Haha, it's become a bit of an obsession rather than just a hobby. What i'm trying to get across is that you don't have to go down the Homes under the hammer route, where you buy a house and spend thousands to get it ready in a month to flip or rent. You do jobs as and when you can afford to do them, you mend and make do and you gradually improve things until you end up with a palace. My main aim was to get out of shared accommodation, that's all I concentrated on. Having fitted kitchens and lovely white bathrooms with travetine tiles plays second fiddle, by a huge margin, to coming home and not wondering who the hell the person is stood in the kitchen making a coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Unrealistic and difficult, yet in the next breath you say that's exactly what you are doing. You're not being forced to live in it, it was your choice to buy the property after all, but once it's finished you'll have the rest of your life to enjoy your hard work. Some people get things handed to them on a plate, the rest of us have to fight for it, but at the end of the day, we're the ones who appreciate what we have the most. I'm not superfit and definitely not rich. I was homeless for a while, spent some time couch surfing and a good many years sharing awful rental properties. I had no idea of how to renovate a house when I first started. I watched loads of youtube videos to learn. I also looked on freecycle and local boards for free tools, building supplies, etc. I got enough free plasterboard to do the living room. It's amazing what people are willing to give away if you are willing to rock up and take it off their hands. A lot of the large DIY chains have loss leaders in the their sales, so they're useful too. I'm not sure why you've been robbed of motivation and energy or why your life is a daily grind, but if I were you I'd look at how you remedy that as my top priority. If the grind is because you hate your job, then find another. You only have one life and it's gone in a heartbeat. Make the most of it. Maybe buying a house is a much lower priority than having a happier life? Unlike yourself, I am not projecting my own life onto my outlok but the observations of popular culture and its trends. When millions of young people are being priced out of owning their own homes, it is not their fault. If your answer to that is buying a slum and doing it up, then you are asking the wrong question. I have respect for those who are able to do it but castigating those who cannot or have not is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Davies Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 Unlike yourself, I am not projecting my own life onto my outlok but the observations of popular culture and its trends. When millions of young people are being priced out of owning their own homes, it is not their fault. If your answer to that is buying a slum and doing it up, then you are asking the wrong question. I have respect for those who are able to do it but castigating those who cannot or have not is wrong. Eh? Where have I castigated anyone for not doing what I have done?? I said to the guy who started the thread that it was an option and I answered some questions/comments. That's all. To be fair, if my answer is to 'buy a slum' (which it isn't) then your answer seems to be 'give up the dream and just moan about it instead' (which it also isn't as you've already said you bought a 'slum' and spent a year or so renovating it). don't understand why buying a renovation job is OK for me, OK for you, but you think it's not a potential solution for at least a few of the 'millions of young people priced out of owning their own homes'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olde guto Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 (edited) If you were getting close to buying before the credit crunch when prices were pretty much at their height, then why didn't you buy after the credit crunch when prices fell? But that would have been by borrowing and paying more than I wanted to but got to the stage where I thought a crash would never happen (I remember predictions on TV of a house price correction in about 2002). Also did you miss this bit? Actually I have another hope, that if there is an HPC I don't have to live with the threat of redundancy hanging over me and having to move job like I did during the recession. Went through several years of hell, a steady drip drip of people being made redundant and wondering when if I was going to be next. It even got to the stage of formal redundancy letters, only for something to be pulled out of the hat. Eventually got a new job and left (I was actually hoping for redundancy as it would have added a few quid to the deposit) That of ignores the bit where (before the work situation got bad) I was letting house prices fall - I thought they were well overpriced then and still do now. Why buy a house now when it might well be cheaper in a few months time? Edited December 9, 2015 by olde guto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renting til I die Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 I'm not going to tell you as it's a waste of my time. As to rents, I myself find rentals to be decent value, but live in Leeds. Many people report problems with rentals in London, which is contradicted by KB however. You are such a meanly To fairytale, I'm guessing Si1 would be looking towards shares and bonds or maybe selling old tat on ebay! (man, those postage costs really dent your margin!) There isn't really many good income producing assets at the moment as ZRIP has distorted everything! Even shares look a bit toppy but remember that even in falling market you will still find good companies that will do well, so seek them out! And of course... there is always BTL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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