Very, Very Informative Video

[fiddlethefigures]

So a government destroying one of its own key financial centers and killing many good people in the process was good for the economy and all part of their masterplan, hrm, right.

Whenever a thread enters its wacko phase it's time to depart, earlier somebody asked why people don't talk about reform of the money supply in the mainstream, when some people are so keen to bind everything up in conspiracy then no wonder it occupies such a niche.

So much for Rand's "objectivism".

What conspiracy?

The towers were brought down by controlled explosion it was admitted by the owner.

The USA is in more debt than any other nation on this planet and Iraq before invasion was trading oil in euros. Big problem for the USA when you consider the problem for the dollar if other opec countries started trading in euros.

USA needed an excuse to attack iraq and they have it in 911.

I dont see anything wacko about the post. Masterplan why not? next you will be telling us the earth is flat and the moon is made of green cheese.

The elite have killed throughout the centuries for financial gain however the masses could not see it because of the lack of knowledge. Now they have the internet the masses are becoming more knowledgeable of the secrets that the elite hold in order for them to stay elite and the masses poor.

Use the internet and arm yourself with knowledge because that is alll you have got in the whole grand scheme of things.

Edited December 8, 2005 by fiddlethefigures

[MattLG]

USA needed an excuse to attack iraq and they have it in 911.

What? Iraq had nothing to do with 11/9. That was the OBL.....remember?

Why do people people keep linking Iraq to 11/9. They are not related. The US went to war with Afghanistan over 11/9, that was the end of it. To link 11/9 and Iraq is just ignorance.

MattLG

[fiddlethefigures]

Apologies to all if I have just lowered the quality and impact of this excellent and relevant thread with my 'wacko' statements, but I don't buy it. I just feel that there is more to the whole 9/11 thing than meets the eye. Just like I don't buy that JFK was killed by a lone gunman and that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by an infuriated patriot called Jack Ruby.

Lincoln, Kennedy and Reagan were all shot at.

When you do your research you find they all tried to bring about monetary reform.

[MattLG]

I don't buy that JFK was killed by a lone gunman

Despite all the evidence?

and that Lee Harvey Oswald was killed by an infuriated patriot called Jack Ruby.

He was killed by a moron who wanted to be important, called Jack Ruby. That was even caught on camera.

There are much better and much more believable conspiracy theories than this mainstream tripe.

MattLG

[fiddlethefigures]

What? Iraq had nothing to do with 11/9. That was the OBL.....remember?

Why do people people keep linking Iraq to 11/9. They are not related. The US went to war with Afghanistan over 11/9, that was the end of it. To link 11/9 and Iraq is just ignorance.

MattLG

The USA when they were going to war tried to make the link beteen OBL and Iraq.

They tried and people in the USA believed them but with all that brainwashing put upon them what else could they believe.

[MattLG]

The USA when they were going to war tried to make the link beteen OBL and Iraq.

They tried and people in the USA believed them but with all that brainwashing put upon them what else could they believe.

No they didn't, they just allowed ignorant people to think that because it was convenient. The masses can understand 11/9, they can't understand the danger posed by a country they couldn't even point to on a map. References were made about more 11/9s happening if they didn't destroy Iraq but they never said they were doing it to get them back for 11/9 or anything like that.

Most americans probably don't even know that Afghanistan and Iraq are two different countries.

MattLG

[fiddlethefigures]

No they didn't, they just allowed ignorant people to think that because it was convenient. The masses can understand 11/9, they can't understand the danger posed by a country they couldn't even point to on a map. References were made about more 11/9s happening if they didn't destroy Iraq but they never said they were doing it to get them back for 11/9 or anything like that.

Most americans probably don't even know that Afghanistan and Iraq are two different countries.

MattLG

Agree

[Smell the Fear]

No they didn't, they just allowed ignorant people to think that because it was convenient. The masses can understand 11/9, they can't understand the danger posed by a country they couldn't even point to on a map. References were made about more 11/9s happening if they didn't destroy Iraq but they never said they were doing it to get them back for 11/9 or anything like that.

Most americans probably don't even know that Afghanistan and Iraq are two different countries.

MattLG

Guys

no offence but this is way off topic and is damaging a serious and well argued thread which is highly relevant to the main topic of this site - house prices. Can you please quit now and start a dedicated thread before this gets moved? Unless of course that is your objective.

[marko]

Guys

no offence but this is way off topic and is damaging a serious and well argued thread which is highly relevant to the main topic of this site - house prices. Can you please quit now and start a dedicated thread before this gets moved? Unless of course that is your objective.

Too late.....credibility alert! credibility alert! Whooop! Whooop!

Shit, just when I thought I had DrBubb in my grasp! Did he put you guys up to this?

p.s. regardless of what anyone thinks about LGMs, Kennedy, 9/11, Shergar or anything else, private money creation is real, it is damaging, it is directly relevant to the current bubble in housing, and it should be stopped.

[MattLG]

it is directly relevant to the current bubble in housing, and it should be stopped.

But I like the current bubble. It makes the crash seem so much better.

The constant cycle of booms and busts makes life predictable and easy to profit from, especially when others can't see the cycle and don't believe in it when it's pointed out to them.

MattLG

[marko]

Thanks for the counter points DrBubb et all. We’re having an excellent debate so far, but I’m still trying to sort out the fact from the opinion:

#1

I still don’t know who pockets all these interest payments on the national debt. The video suggests that [in the US] undisclosed elite bankers purchased their shares in the central bank using money borrowed from the bank itself (i.e. at no personal cost). If this is true, I would like to know where I can find out who these people are (preferably their names and addresses) and how much money they receive each year.

I am unsure about this as well. It would be lovely to know who the money goes to. The Jekyll Island meeting gives some indication of how cuddled up all these bankers were for the Fed.

#2

The main argument against a debt-free 'fiat' money system is that it would be open to abuse and result in inflation. However there appears to be little evidence that the current system protects against this form of abuse.

Indeed. There is no evidence. Private debt-money creation is amply able to lead to serious inflation...look at the House Price Bubble...it is the direct result of pumping of liquidity into the financial system through lending.

The video suggests an independent money control board, meeting in public with very little discretionary power (i.e. decisions based mainly on population growth). The test for any system of monetary control would have to be immunity from politicians trying to buy re-election (i.e. the Gordon Brown test) and its impact on the economy in time of war.

Note: Would anybody support going to war if it meant that taxes would have to rise immediately?

I believe that the following excerpt from the proposed constitutional amendment by Milton Friedman would be a good starting point:

Congress shall have the power to authorize non-interest-bearing obligations of the government in the form of currency or book entries, provided that the total dollar amount outstanding increases by no more than 5 percent per year and no less than 3 percent.

It might be desirable to include a provision that two-thirds of each House of Congress, or some similar qualified majority, can waive the requirement in case of a declaration of war, the suspension to terminate annually unless renewed.

i.e. in war time spending can be ramped. This is what the colonies and Lincoln did when fighting their wars with the British Empire and the Confederacy respectively...they just financed the war through printing government money - it of course was highly inflationary. Mind you, still preferable to the huge amounts of DEBT-financing that was behind many other wars. Watch the video again...the bankers made enormous sums of money out of war, by debt-financing it.

Utter Ba5tards.

#3 As for accounting for the gold in Fort Knox, wherever there is secrecy then there is reason for suspicion.

Quite...repeatedly refused independent audits.

Edited December 8, 2005 by marko

[The Masked Tulip]

I watched the first 10 seconds, concluded it was the work of people who believe in black helicopters and who have second homes called 'nuklear bunkers' in Colorado. IMPO that stuff can rot your brain.

[marko]

I watched the first 10 seconds, concluded it was the work of people who believe in black helicopters and who have second homes called 'nuklear bunkers' in Colorado. IMPO that stuff can rot your brain.

Well obviously there is no way I can argue with that searing analysis, now is there?

Whatever, I am once again fatigued with trying to impress this upon you guys....and I have a massive headache!

This is not a kooked-out conspiracy theory...this is an easily verifiable mechanism by which banks create and control the money supply. I come to HPC to air this stuff precisely because I think that the people on this forum are more intelligent and more perceptive than the average Joe. And despite some curmudgeons who will swear black is white to protect their illusions, indeed every time a few people are made aware of a major subtext to the way the world works.

Job done!

[Foobar]

Here's a link to the Fed website, can anyone find details about the stockholders?

http://www.federalreserve.gov/general.htm

Looking under the Fed Reserve Act section interesting details:

(a)(1)(A) After all necessary expenses of a Federal reserve bank have been paid or provided for, the stockholders of the bank shall be entitled to receive an annual dividend of 6 percent on paid-in capital stock.

Exemption from Taxation

© Federal reserve banks, including the capital stock and surplus therein, and the income derived therefrom shall be exempt from Federal, State, and local taxation, except taxes upon real estate.

Can anyone find any other gems?

[sighmoon]

Ah I got it now

but fractional reserve banking simply means, that the amount of cash in the bank at any time is 10% (or whatever) of the deposits. The rest of the money isn't simply made up out of thin air, or stolen from taxpayers (as the video would have us believe), but it's money invested in the bank through other means (i.e. savings accounts, etc).

No, they don't benefit from recessions, as they do benefit from people continuing to deposit savings and take out loans - both of which happen less in a recession.

So to sum up, there is no conspiracy, the banks are doing what a lot of people (especially b2l) do anyway - borrowing money to make money.

[crystal ball]

Well obviously there is no way I can argue with that searing analysis, now is there?

Whatever, I am once again fatigued with trying to impress this upon you guys....and I have a massive headache!

This is not a kooked-out conspiracy theory...this is an easily verifiable mechanism by which banks create and control the money supply. I come to HPC to air this stuff precisely because I think that the people on this forum are more intelligent and more perceptive than the average Joe. And despite some curmudgeons who will swear black is white to protect their illusions, indeed every time a few people are made aware of a major subtext to the way the world works.

Job done!

Here Here

A superb find. Since the forum started alot of links have been posted about this topic and its implications concerning house prices.

The world is ignorant of economics because of all the smoke and mirrors illusion around it, but the picture is painted clearly in this video and anyone who goes further than 10 seconds will realise why there is smoke and mirrors around economics.

I was reading the website relating to this video and he has sold around 20000 copies of the video since 1995 mainly through word of mouth.

A fantastic piece of work and again thanks marko for bringing the link to this forum.

[The Masked Tulip]

OK, I will try and get a full minute in later on.

[HomeAlone]

Just watched the video, some one tell me where the I can get some silver dollars quick

[Starcrossed]

We are not talking about consumer debt, we are talking about the national debt. Our governments should be in control of the money supply. They should not be in debt to anyone. If they want to purchase services they do it through tax and by creating more money themselves and not compound the issue by making us all slaves to the lenders.

I think there is a close analogy here with football fans and the club owners.

Football fans are unreasoning - they want success on the field and demand it. The owners want success too but, crucially, know their position is often reliant on the goodwill of the fans. Therefore, they spend more and more money attempting to 'fulfill the dream.'

Then, if poor decisions are made and success does not come, the club gets into financial trouble.

The end result is that the club has huge debts, is failing on the field and the fans turn on the owners for 'letting this happen'. Yet it was their unrealistic demands that led to the crisis in the first place.

Who is at fault? Everybody is, to some extent but the main driver is the fan.

Just as in a democracy, it is the voter that drives the agenda - they, in turn can be manipulated - but this manipulation is often based on their existing desires.

[curious1]

One small difference there... its alot easier to stop going to football matches than it is to relocate to another country....

or, you can remain a fan, but stop visiting the grounds thereby not paying the 'tax'. You can't stay in the UK and say "I'm not playing anymore, I won't pay any tax on government interest repayments'

[Starcrossed]

One small difference there... its alot easier to stop going to football matches than it is to relocate to another country....

or, you can remain a fan, but stop visiting the grounds thereby not paying the 'tax'. You can't stay in the UK and say "I'm not playing anymore, I won't pay any tax on government interest repayments'

That's true - however, a football fan is often really in it for life. It is possible to leave the country of your birth - but it can be harder to leave the football club of your birth.

Anyway, like all analogies it has it's limitations!

[North London Rent Girl]

Ah I got it

but fractional reserve banking simply means, that the amount of cash in the bank at any time is 10% (or whatever) of the deposits. The rest of the money isn't simply made up out of thin air, or stolen from taxpayers (as the video would have us believe), but it's money invested in the bank through other means (i.e. savings accounts, etc).

I don't think you have got it, you know. If it was money 'invested in the bank through other means (i.e. savings accounts etc.)' then the reserve wouldn't be fractional, would it - we'd have 100% reserve banking and that's not what we've got, we've got - I think - 8% FRB - or thereabouts. Go back and watch it again.

Marko, don't lose heart, it's fascinating this stuff - it's blown my mind finding out about it all. It's just difficult for people to get their head around it. It's so central to our lives that it's hard to believe that it's not common knowledge and in some way that leads people to think that it can't be true.

[fiddlethefigures]

"Lincoln, Kennedy and Reagan were all shot at.

When you do your research you find they all tried to bring about monetary reform"

RIGHT, and they all have six or seven letters in their names. So did Lennon.

Ever realise that no one ever shoots at a President with four letters, like Bush

Even though President Abraham Lincoln and President John Kennedy, both attempted monetary reform that would restore to elected government the right to create and issue money, assassins stopped them dead in their tracks. Their successors immediately reversed the reforms.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~bamr1/eurobook.htm.

Reagan studied economics so knew about the money system he was shot early in his presidency luckily he survived but it certainly might have changed his mind on bringing about monetary change.

Edited December 9, 2005 by fiddlethefigures

[Smell the Fear]

"Lincoln, Kennedy and Reagan were all shot at.

When you do your research you find they all tried to bring about monetary reform"

RIGHT, and they all have six or seven letters in their names. So did Lennon.

Ever realise that no one ever shoots at a President with four letters, like Bush

Not yet, but I suspect that more would be willing to than at any past president.

p.s. try to keep on topic Bubb - focusing on so-called conspiracy aspects is a pretty low tactic.

Edited December 9, 2005 by Smell the Fear

[sp1]

Children need strong guidance, not weak democracy.

I agree with that but

Ever heard of a democratic boarding school that didn't end in chaos?

A case of exactly this :

http://www.summerhillschool.co.uk/pages/index.html

"..particularly unusual feature of the school is the school Meeting, at which the school Laws are made or changed.

These laws are the rules of the school, made by majority vote in the community meetings; pupils and staff alike having equal votes.....all lessons are optional. Teachers and classes are available at timetabled times, but the children can decide whether to attend or not. This gives them the freedom to make choices about their own lives and means that those children attending lessons are motivated to learn"

Seriously check it out!