longtomsilver2 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 My wife is about to be offered a job at a new company. The pension provisions at the new place are very basic, effectively statutory where employer funds 2% of salary for my wifes 3% contribution. She will be leaving an executive scheme in her current role (employer contributes 9% to her 6%). Her salary will rise substantially (40%) which will somewhat mitigate this loss. She is at the negotiation stage and I'd like her to ask if they will pay the employers 13% NI contribution on salary sacrifice to a private pension as we are looking to continue making the maximum contribution allowed. Before the ink dries what is the best way to approach this at the table. Thanks in advance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigantic Purple Slug Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't know. But can anyone tell me where to get a wife that kicks butt in the salary department ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't know. But can anyone tell me where to get a wife that kicks butt in the salary department ? I'm single. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Sorry, I don't know that myself! A stroke of luck on my part and hard work for her. Chance meeting in a very common hunting ground (dance floor) at the start of her fledging career. Edit: I wouldn't fancy my chances with her now and it's odds on that she'll serve up a nice surprise when our children are a lot older which is why I'm focused on her building up a good pension. As the main carer to our two children I expect to take half (the ace up my sleeve). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 My wife is about to be offered a job at a new company. The pension provisions at the new place are very basic, effectively statutory where employer funds 2% of salary for my wifes 3% contribution. She will be leaving an executive scheme in her current role (employer contributes 9% to her 6%). Her salary will rise substantially (40%) which will somewhat mitigate this loss. She is at the negotiation stage and I'd like her to ask if they will pay the employers 13% NI contribution on salary sacrifice to a private pension as we are looking to continue making the maximum contribution allowed. Before the ink dries what is the best way to approach this at the table. Thanks in advance... Since there is no cost to the employer in doing that, there's no good reason for them to refuse. If they do refuse, I'd suggest that means that they're either really not the sort of place you'd want to work or that they're not that keen to hire your wife in the first place. The approach I'd suggest is to ask for a couple of days to consider the offer and to talk it through with your lawyer/accountant/financial advisor etc then to go back and ask the question as 'my accountant suggests that you make the extra pension contributions from gross salary and that, in exchange, your wife will sign an appropriate disclaimer to protect the company from anything it might be concerned about.' Phrasing a request of that sort as if it came from a 3rd party is always a good way of making it seem dispassionate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 My wife is about to be offered a job at a new company. The pension provisions at the new place are very basic, effectively statutory where employer funds 2% of salary for my wifes 3% contribution. She will be leaving an executive scheme in her current role (employer contributes 9% to her 6%). Her salary will rise substantially (40%) which will somewhat mitigate this loss. She is at the negotiation stage and I'd like her to ask if they will pay the employers 13% NI contribution on salary sacrifice to a private pension as we are looking to continue making the maximum contribution allowed. Before the ink dries what is the best way to approach this at the table. Thanks in advance... It's a sales situation in some respects so first of all work with your missus to go in prepared. Work out the total cost of her package as a number Gross + employers NI + the 2%. Not sure you understand NI ? It's a tax not a pension contribution. Whatever they pay your wife as a salary they pay employers NI on and your wife pays employees NI. This from HMRC "Salary sacrifice is a contractual arrangement whereby an employee gives up the right to receive part of their cash remuneration, usually in return for their employer’s agreement to provide some form of non-cash benefit." I wouldn't mention salary sacrifice it will confuse the poor dears. But your request seems perfectly reasonable if using easy numbers. They are willing to pay £1000 a month + 2% pension this will cost them £1130 = £20 = ££1150 (Ni not as straight forward as that but suffices for this) If they pay your wife £800 and £220 to a pension they pay. £800 x 1.13 + £220 = £1124 the more your wife takes as a pension the cheaper it is for them. HR will obviously kick up because they don't like helping employees but get the deal signed with the new boss and make it a condition of the offer and you should be ok Edit: Blue Cat backing up my HR advice so good advice re 3rd party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's a sales situation in some respects so first of all work with your missus to go in prepared. Work out the total cost of her package as a number Gross + employers NI + the 2%. Not sure you understand NI ? It's a tax not a pension contribution. Whatever they pay your wife as a salary they pay employers NI on and your wife pays employees NI. This from HMRC "Salary sacrifice is a contractual arrangement whereby an employee gives up the right to receive part of their cash remuneration, usually in return for their employer’s agreement to provide some form of non-cash benefit." I wouldn't mention salary sacrifice it will confuse the poor dears. But your request seems perfectly reasonable if using easy numbers. They are willing to pay £1000 a month + 2% pension this will cost them £1130 = £20 = ££1150 (Ni not as straight forward as that but suffices for this) If they pay your wife £800 and £220 to a pension they pay. £800 x 1.13 + £220 = £1124 the more your wife takes as a pension the cheaper it is for them. HR will obviously kick up because they don't like helping employees but get the deal signed with the new boss and make it a condition of the offer and you should be or Edit: Blue Cat backing up my HR advice so good advice re 3rd party Thanks Bluecat that's good advice. It is an awkward question to ask and coming from a 'third party' is a good approach. Thanks again Greg and for the detail/maths. Highlighted bit in bold... my wife asked the same question to her current HR dept. and they argued that the extra work involved in processing and administrating this request meant they would not do it. If the employer is sacrificing salary into a private pension on her behalf I wrongly believed they would no longer have to pay the employers 13% national insurance on all salary sacrificed. If that was the case I'd rightly expect that saving to be past on to the employee (nil cost to employer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thanks Bluecat that's good advice. It is an awkward question to ask and coming from a 'third party' is a good approach. Thanks again Greg and for the detail/maths. Highlighted bit in bold... my wife asked the same question to her current HR dept. and they argued that the extra work involved in processing and administrating this request meant they would not do it. If the employer is sacrificing salary into a private pension on her behalf I wrongly believed they would no longer have to pay the employers 13% national insurance on all salary sacrificed. If that was the case I'd rightly expect that saving to be past on to the employee (nil cost to employer). They won't pay NI on a pension contribution but there is a point where both sides have to be reasonable, it is a pain in the A*** setting up company wide pension schemes and if you wife rightly so gets a different split good on her , but if you then argue for the bit they saved on NI - in truth if I was interviewing her....she would start to tip into the more trouble than their worth box. Leave everyone feeling they have done ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 People who work in HR looking into 'packages' don't usually give too much of a ****** about their job. They are bored getting the train into work and enjoy getting an amusing text from their pal when bored senseless at half ten every morning. They have rules and limits they must sit within. That's about it. They are not important. Make them feel important - and she will get the best deal. Make them feel like they are doing your burd a favour - then take all you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Edit: I wouldn't fancy my chances with her now and it's odds on that she'll serve up a nice surprise when our children are a lot older which is why I'm focused on her building up a good pension. As the main carer to our two children I expect to take half (the ace up my sleeve). I've never known a woman who was happy with a man who earns less than her, even when the woman concerned is a big earner. I guess there are some, just not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I've never known a woman who was happy with a man who earns less than her, even when the woman concerned is a big earner. I guess there are some, just not many. I've never known a man who was happy with a woman earning substantially more than him. Plenty of experience of it. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPin Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I've never known a man who was happy with a woman warning substantially more than him. Plenty of experience of it. Just sayin'. They would always be buying the man more Aston Martin's? Gifts to a partner should be sensible, well thought out, and not stupidly extravagant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I've never known a man who was happy with a woman warning substantially more than him. Plenty of experience of it. Just sayin'. That can also be true. I think for me it would only be an issue if it became obvious to me that I no longer moistened the gusset of the high-earning woman, which is what I've seen...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossybabe Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 That can also be true. I think for me it would only be an issue if it became obvious to me that I no longer moistened the gusset of the high-earning woman, which is what I've seen...... Wrong woman, then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleepwello'nights Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 I've never known a woman who was happy with a man who earns less than her, even when the woman concerned is a big earner. I guess there are some, just not many. Well you know what they say "behind every successful man is a surprised woman". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 They would always be buying the man more Aston Martin's? Gifts to a partner should be sensible, well thought out, and not stupidly extravagant We are not quite in that league. I have recently taken delivery of a nice new Mercedes thanks to the wife. I don't consider this extravagant as it's within our means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 That can also be true. I think for me it would only be an issue if it became obvious to me that I no longer moistened the gusset of the high-earning woman, which is what I've seen...... Sadly, this is ringing true for me and I'm a rational person at heart. The writings on the wall so to speak. My earning power is zilch but I do take care of our children and rightly so... this isn't future proofed they will grow up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Sadly, this is ringing true for me and I'm a rational person at heart. The writings on the wall so to speak. My earning power is zilch but I do take care of our children and rightly so... this isn't future proofed they will grow up Sorry to hear that LTS, this is exactly what I have seen in the marriages of high-flying women that I have known or worked with. Years back when young and a bit more eye-catching than my fit-but-slightly-grizzled self I was even propositioned by one, the FD of a major company, but as I liked her husband and considered her a poisonous b*tch it was not a tempting offer. Without having any idea of your personal situation, can I suggest you make sure you're in tip-top shape and start going to fitness/gym/yoga/dancing classes in any spare time you can find? Doing that can only have a positive effect whatever the longterm outcome is.... Women like their men to be desirable to other women, so if you can't be one thing, be another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Good advice ^ Either way it won't do you any harm - and you will feel better mentally and physically for it. (apologies if you are already a fit chap) I just beat my pool 750m by about a minute. I feel brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Sorry to hear that LTS, this is exactly what I have seen in the marriages of high-flying women that I have known or worked with. Years back when young and a bit more eye-catching than my fit-but-slightly-grizzled self I was even propositioned by one, the FD of a major company, but as I liked her husband and considered her a poisonous b*tch it was not a tempting offer. Without having any idea of your personal situation, can I suggest you make sure you're in tip-top shape and start going to fitness/gym/yoga/dancing classes in any spare time you can find? Doing that can only have a positive effect whatever the longterm outcome is.... Women like their men to be desirable to other women, so if you can't be one thing, be another. I totally get what you are saying and recently offered the same advice to a friend of mine. I've let myself go though not intentially (two year illness in 2009 (drug resistant campylobacter) sapped my energy levels to this day together with a punishing childcare routine (I've said before on other threads my wife works out the country 3 weeks in 4 and doesn't do much to help when she is home (either out with clients or at the gym). Thankfully all I have lost is a lot of weight (never regained after illness) and muscle definition. The effect is noticeable going out with my mates as now they get all the attention whereas before it used to always be me. By accident of birth I was exceptionally good looking getting propositioned countless times. I'm not going to rest on my laurels from April my son starts preschool two days a week. For the two reasons you state I'm going to get back on top of myself but for me above all else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtomsilver2 Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Good advice ^ Either way it won't do you any harm - and you will feel better mentally and physically for it. (apologies if you are already a fit chap) I just beat my pool 750m by about a minute. I feel brilliant. Well done on the personal best. You've got me motivated to dig out my concept 2 rowing machine (tomorrow now ). I will be paragliding loads in my two days off a week, new club and new wing I'm hoping to beat my own records, do a minimum 100km cross country and get my name in the league. That'll keep me focused and be the start of my rehabilitation to fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Paragliding sounds immense - enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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