nigooner Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Where they are now. Do you think the landlords will be able to magic up new tenants? So the landlord will let people live there for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigooner Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 What if housing benefit were stopped completely? As indicated above, the houses don't disappear. Rents collapse. The house values collapse. Landlords go broke. Houses get auctioned off. Somebody else buys them at low prices. We start again - the state saves a fortune. Or could the state buy them? Of course new landlords will be loath to spend money on the houses. Could the state supply maintenance etc? Any thoughts? What's the point of all that If the cycle starts again at lower rents and works its way back up? It's hardly hammering out BTL landlords. It's just making a new generation of landlords who can buy dirt cheap houses and wait ten years to sell them and make a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigooner Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think they should be hammered for the simple reason that they are sucking on the state teat getting housing benefit while offering prices for houses which price out buyers. Morally I think that you have a right to shelter yourself and family but not people farm and lord it over others. BTL should only be allowed where there is a level playing field and the borrower has to have a repayment mortgage in place as ordinary buyers have to do. LTV should be the same as for ordinary purchasers too. Continual mewing out of one property to pay a deposit on another should attract instant capital gains tax to be paid. BTL should be strictly regulated and licensed - I completed the NI survey on this. There should be no revenge evictions allowed and you should be able to check the credit reference for your landlord to check he has not got a residential mortgage on the property and could be repossessed while you are renting from him. Letting agents used by the BTL sector should also be strictly regulated to stop them demanding extra fees every time an AST runs out. Tenants have been treated as milch cows for too long. If a regulated rental market is working in Germany then it can work here. Long tenancies for security of tenure and children able to put down roots. No more fighting to get your deposit back and having to plead with your master (sorry landlord) to make basic repairs to make your life bearable such as hot water and heating. I have no objection to a strictly regulated rental market but judging by the screams of outrage on the BTLers forum every time the playing field is levelled a little -- I doubt if your average BTLer will be able to stomach it. Greed and humanity seldom work as close partners. I have no issue at all with regulations and controls on landlords! They need to play ball as much as the person in their house does. Is there not already a tenancy deposit scheme in place? Well if you want landlords and house buyers on a level playing field, why don't BTLers get 5% mortgages with half of the amount loaned by the government like first time buyers can get now? That's a level playing field. Not a landlord having to pay 35% deposit for a BTL mortgage against a private buyer who can get a mortgage with 5% deposit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I have no issue at all with regulations and controls on landlords! They need to play ball as much as the person in their house does. Is there not already a tenancy deposit scheme in place? Well if you want landlords and house buyers on a level playing field, why don't BTLers get 5% mortgages with half of the amount loaned by the government like first time buyers can get now? That's a level playing field. Not a landlord having to pay 35% deposit for a BTL mortgage against a private buyer who can get a mortgage with 5% deposit. But then a LL still gets to offset 20% tax again the income they receive. I don't get to do that. I can't offset the loan I take out to buy shares. The deposit different is to take account for the increased commercial risk. That's a good idea you suggest, a better one would be for the government to guarantee the first 25% of loan a housing association takes out to but property to rent. I'm sure they already do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 What's the point of all that If the cycle starts again at lower rents and works its way back up? It's hardly hammering out BTL landlords. It's just making a new generation of landlords who can buy dirt cheap houses and wait ten years to sell them and make a fortune. And why would it work its way back up without the massive subsidy of housing benefit? Rents will remain low without that mega distortion of the market. Saw a house in Palestine street for sale last week. I used to live in it years ago. They're looking for the same money it went for in 2000. Hardly a route to riches was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) What's the point of all that If the cycle starts again at lower rents and works its way back up? It's hardly hammering out BTL landlords. It's just making a new generation of landlords who can buy dirt cheap houses and wait ten years to sell them and make a fortune. Thanks for clarifying that houses won't disappear. Very useful. What are you suggesting is done with them then? Government buys every former BTL to house the renters and become a large scale rental agency as well as housing association? Let the housing associations buy them if they want or wait here's a better idea, let the people that live in them buy them. Crazy thought I know. The introduction of BTL saw a massive increase in private rentals compared to owner occupation. The fact is, renting has its place and so do LLs (who own outright), but still renters will want to buy if the price is right. These measures will hopefully remove the LL competition and decrease prices The government looks to be targeting leveraged BTL in a big way. I hope, that as they sell up, they'll sell to FTBers and in the meantime the government can cream off the extra tax and collect the CGT when they come to sell. Everyone wins... Except the leverged numpties, it's my pension. Oh dear, never mind. How the hell did we survive preleveraged BTL? Edited November 27, 2015 by 2buyornot2buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 And why would it work its way back up without the massive subsidy of housing benefit? Rents will remain low without that mega distortion of the market. Saw a house in Palestine street for sale last week. I used to live in it years ago. They're looking for the same money it went for in 2000. Hardly a route to riches was it? Friend sold one on Palestine for 170k at the top of the market. Had it for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 What are you suggesting is done with them then? Government buys every former BTL to house the renters and become a large scale rental agency as well as housing association? Yes. Council houses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) What if housing benefit were stopped completely? As indicated above, the houses don't disappear. Rents collapse. The house values collapse. Landlords go broke. Houses get auctioned off. Somebody else buys them at low prices. We start again - the state saves a fortune. Or could the state buy them? Of course new landlords will be loath to spend money on the houses. Could the state supply maintenance etc? Any thoughts? I think this is happening, in slow motion, in a roundabout way. The EHO can already do necessary repairs on a property where the house has been graded as uninhabitable and where the landlord has refused or is unable to the work (they are all skint and in negative equity - if you believe the cries) The landlord can be billed for the cost. That NI tenants have no autonomy to take action against landlords themselves (even for non protection of deposits) is a pity. Being in the PRS means tenants rights are the domain of EHO and it is their discretion that decides whether a landlord is prosecuted or not. So whatever comes out of the review it needs to include tenants voice and some restoration of autonomy. Don't now about anybody else but I am disgusted that private tenants are deemed by tenure to be vulnerable and unable to act for themselves. We do have a serious problem in NI where the majority of the landlords belong in the 'accidental' hobby category. A sudden rush to sell would leave a glut of empty houses on the market and make it harder for tenants to find rented accommodation. However any sell off is likely to result in at the very least, a stagnation of prices if not further falls. That would make it easier for tenants to fit into mortgage criteria and buy. And for those who don't want to, or can not buy, we will always have rented accommodation. Just that we don't need the insecurity and poor conditions that seem to be the product of over leveraged landlords who view tenants as a necessary inconvenience to their end goal of capital gains. Willies post was spot on, tenants need security of tenure and fit decent houses to live in. Huge difference between us and the German rental market is that the landlords in Germany if taking a mortgage on a rented property are strictly tested for affordability and LTV is much lower than here. BTL the way we do it is a joke around Europe thus the changes in 2017 to mortgage regulations for 'accidental' hobby landlords. Yes to council housing - build more, lots more. Security of tenure, standardised rents and housing fitness. Edited November 27, 2015 by little fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Friend sold one on Palestine for 170k at the top of the market. Had it for years. Cute. Probably worth about a hundred now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 I think this is happening, in slow motion, in a roundabout way. The EHO can already do necessary repairs on a property where the house has been graded as uninhabitable and where the landlord has refused or is unable to the work (they are all skint and in negative equity - if you believe the cries) The landlord can be billed for the cost. That NI tenants have no autonomy to take action against landlords themselves (even for non protection of deposits) is a pity. Being in the PRS means tenants rights are the domain of EHO and it is their discretion that decides whether a landlord is prosecuted or not. So whatever comes out of the review it needs to include tenants voice and some restoration of autonomy. Don't now about anybody else but I am disgusted that private tenants are deemed by tenure to be vulnerable and unable to act for themselves. We do have a serious problem in NI where the majority of the landlords belong in the 'accidental' hobby category. A sudden rush to sell would leave a glut of empty houses on the market and make it harder for tenants to find rented accommodation. However any sell off is likely to result in at the very least, a stagnation of prices if not further falls. That would make it easier for tenants to fit into mortgage criteria and buy. And for those who don't want to, or can not buy, we will always have rented accommodation. Just that we don't need the insecurity and poor conditions that seem to be the product of over leveraged landlords who view tenants as a necessary inconvenience to their end goal of capital gains. Willies post was spot on, tenants need security of tenure and fit decent houses to live in. Huge difference between us and the German rental market is that the landlords in Germany if taking a mortgage on a rented property are strictly tested for affordability and LTV are much lower than here. BTL the way we do it is a joke around Europe thus the changes in 2017 to mortgage regulations for 'accidental' hobby landlords. Yes to council housing - build more, lots more. Security of tenure, standardised rents and housing fitness. Great Post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) Cute. Probably worth about a hundred now. Spunked it on a house in France (or Spain). Not so cute. Lucky to get 100k. It was 2 bed, one in the living room. Edited November 27, 2015 by 2buyornot2buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Security of tenure, standardised rents and housing fitness - just realised that all tenants should have this to build communities with social supports, regardless of whether the tenure is social HMO or PRS. Equality of tenants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Spunked it on a house in France (or Spain). Not so cute. Lucky to get 100k. It was 2 bed, one in the living room. Not a chance. 65? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Not a chance. 65? Age? Much younger that 65. House was an inheritance, family owned it for a longtime. Proceeds split between 2 people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Age? Much younger that 65. House was an inheritance, family owned it for a longtime. Proceeds split between 2 people. Let me guess. They phoned the wrong number and ended up accidentally renting it instead of selling it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Let me guess. They phoned the wrong number and ended up accidentally renting it instead of selling it? Whoever bought it definitely got his numbers wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Whoever bought it definitely got his numbers wrong. BTLer. It's Ok though, he can offset the massive interest bill every year against tax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Whoever bought it definitely got his numbers wrong. lololol 170K oh my that is scary. Just googled this. Palestine Street 5 (5??!!!) bedrooms & tenanted although it doesn't say what the rent income is. £97,950. http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/ST091121313948228/Palestine-Street/354346043/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 lololol 170K oh my that is scary. Just googled this. Palestine Street 5 (5??!!!) bedrooms & tenanted although it doesn't say what the rent income is. £97,950. http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Belfast/ST091121313948228/Palestine-Street/354346043/ That could even be it. lol Probably actually 4 beds. One in the ground floor living room and 2 attic rooms. I really think the one sold was pre-conversion. So 2 bed and addition bed on the ground floor. The holyland's was crazy. Small country builders were buying the whole place up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigooner Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 And why would it work its way back up without the massive subsidy of housing benefit? Rents will remain low without that mega distortion of the market. Saw a house in Palestine street for sale last week. I used to live in it years ago. They're looking for the same money it went for in 2000. Hardly a route to riches was it? Well if he's had ten years rent out of it... Provided he didn't follow your thinking and let them live there for free. So if the BTL market is completely hammered out of the system, where do those students in town live when all the houses are owned privately. Do the council house them? Come to think of it, where would those game of thrones staff live when they are over here working? Or anyone who is here working for 6 months of a year. Go in to a housing association and ask to borrow one of the houses that was bought with people on housing benefit in mind because all the private BTL houses have gone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 That could even be it. lol Probably actually 4 beds. One in the ground floor living room and 2 attic rooms. I really think the one sold was pre-conversion. So 2 bed and addition bed on the ground floor. The holyland's was crazy. Small country builders were buying the whole place up. ....and now they're regretting it. Madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little fish Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Being in negative equity if the rent income is still covering the mortgage is one thing but if there's fewer students looking for property then surely the rents in that specific area could drop? Don't we have 1600 rooms of new student accommodation being built? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yadayada Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Well if he's had ten years rent out of it... Provided he didn't follow your thinking and let them live there for free. So if the BTL market is completely hammered out of the system, where do those students in town live when all the houses are owned privately. Do the council house them? Come to think of it, where would those game of thrones staff live when they are over here working? Or anyone who is here working for 6 months of a year. Go in to a housing association and ask to borrow one of the houses that was bought with people on housing benefit in mind because all the private BTL houses have gone? 10 years of interest, rates, repairs, voids. Students - same as ever. There were always rentals before there was HB. Just not as many. As said above, the absurdity is the scandalous amount of public money wasted for the weird ideological reason that the state should not own houses, which paradoxically resulted in the HB monster, bourgeois social welfare and lower earners who want to buy being priced out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy T Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Well if you want landlords and house buyers on a level playing field, why don't BTLers get 5% mortgages with half of the amount loaned by the government like first time buyers can get now? That's a level playing field. Not a landlord having to pay 35% deposit for a BTL mortgage against a private buyer who can get a mortgage with 5% deposit. Owner occupiers aren't getting interest only mortgages are they. You think it would of been sensible to give landlords a 95% interest only mortgage?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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