Embarrassing Fat Bodies C4

[@contradevian]

WTF? according to another page from that second link everything that is supposed to be good is full of age's and everything that we know to be bad is not http://inhumanexperi...t-of-foods.html

There is debunking of some of that list over at the The Daily Lipid.

http://blog.choleste...gh-in-ages.html

A butter-loving reader posed the following question to me:

Thanks for all the work you do. Any chance you could post something on the AGE content of butter? Does it make a difference if AGEs are endogenously or exogenously produced? Thank in advance.

Suffice it to say he liked my answer. I'll repeat it here, with a little more detail.

Keep eating the butter and animals. Stop consuming biodiesel and bird food! Moderate the plant food!

Bye the way the insane war on the wrong kind of fats has adversely affected our Vitamin D intake. Butter and Lard (yes lard) are pretty good for Vitamin D.

[@contradevian]

Interesting...the politics of fat.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Federal-Reserve-System-Created-History.html#cholesterol

The Welfare State and the War on Cholesterol

The American welfare state has directly facilitated the war on cholesterol, the war on good food, and the war on health freedom. Beginning on page 4 of his New York Times article, "What If It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?" Gary Taubes discusses the political story behind these wars, from the McGovern Committee to the National Institutes of Health, including the hundreds of millions of tax dollars spent to finance them.

Between the 1950s and the 1980s, the Big Business-Big Government partnership began recommending the public substitute polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) for saturated fatty acids. This was not only a boon to the vegetable oil industry, but was a huge boon to the American disease care system, in large part brought to power through the Rockefeller Foundation by the same banking interests that created the Federal Reserve.

Research going back to the late 1940s and early 1950s had shown that unsaturated fats in the diet were responsible for the vulnerability of laboratory animals to toxins and their susceptibility to experimentally induced diabetes. As described in my PUFA Report, "How Essential Are the Essential Fatty Acids?" later research showed that even small amounts of PUFA in the diet caused large increases in the susceptibility of lab animals to cancer.

The term "welfare state" is thus a misnomer. Whereas the "warfare state" appropriately refers to the military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us about in 1961, the "welfare state" describes a government-industrial complex that wages war against the welfare of the public under the guise of promoting its welfare.

Like the privately owned central banks financed both sides of both world wars, the medical-industrial complex finances both sides of the public health wars — the side that provides the dietary advice that causes disease, and the side that provides drugs to cure those diseases.

[Number79]

just completed a 36 hour fast, was gonna be 48 but it was a shitty day so am breaking it with 4 cans of lager. Also I figured that if it was only gonna be 4 then they should be nasty strength

I did notice that being totally carb free, which I have never been before eating for energy and on supplements, that I was dog tired. I kept falling asleep in the afternoon and evening and struggled to get out of bed.

I think that I may have also lost some muscle mass although from reading am probably just being paranoid but I am definitely finding it harder to lift the weights that I was and have not been able to add to the weights.

Feel free to post some real life gents, I am all bookwormed out.

[Number79]

In my longer fasts I've definitely lost strength and muscle proportionate with the rest of my body, I'd say (but I'm not overweight), but the long-term health gains have been enormous.

I'm off to watch the Apprentice now though, so no 'real life' for me!

Freak. Dont you know that the time team is on?

[@contradevian]

Freak. Dont you know that the time team is on?

I think you are feeling weak on your non fasting days and are particularly active it might be an idea to up your carbs. "Fat burns in the flame of carbohydrate" and whilst the body doesn't require carbs it does require glucose, not huge amounts but it does need some which it can get from protein via Glucogenesis, but thats probably not optimum.

BTW I was reading something today about "protein cycling" where skin conditions and other ailments clear up due to severe protein restriction. This seems to be what Durch experiences on his long fasts.

[Number79]

I think you are feeling weak on your non fasting days and are particularly active it might be an idea to up your carbs. "Fat burns in the flame of carbohydrate" and whilst the body doesn't require carbs it does require glucose, not huge amounts but it does need some which it can get from protein via Glucogenesis, but thats probably not optimum.

BTW I was reading something today about "protein cycling" where skin conditions and other ailments clear up due to severe protein restriction. This seems to be what Durch experiences on his long fasts.

What does that have to do with time team?

I think that the issue has not arisen during fasting because I still drink coffee with sugar. Carb free tiredness is defo a sugar issue imo.

[@contradevian]

http://www.dailymail...ity-counts.html

replace the whole grains, fine grains, rice with meat, eggs and fish and they have got it about right. Weight watchers should lay off fruit too, but I agree that quality rather than quantity is the way to go. They also can't bring themselves to reject "dangerous" PUFA's.

[Austin Allegro]

They would have to give me a backy after 40 miles. My legs die at about that point.

Haha me too...though it's usually my bum that goes first, the pain can be incredible. I don't know how those lycra-louts can do 60-80 miles in a day...

[@contradevian]

Haha me too...though it's usually my bum that goes first, the pain can be incredible. I don't know how those lycra-louts can do 60-80 miles in a day...

depends on the bike as well. 60-80 miles on my hybrid would be torture, my racing bike easier as its lighter and faster, Also drop down bars gives you a greater range of positions, and you can get your **** out of the saddle more often as well as leaning forward more.

[@contradevian]

I've been doing the 16-18 hour fast approach, with the exception of a drop of cream in my tea/coffee which has blunted ghrelin a little. At the moment I don't feel like food at all, and "buzzing" or feeling a little wired. I think its a good job I don't work in an office, because I'm sure it wouldn't take me a lot to snap and the offender cooked on a spit roast later (or chosen for their cracking potential)

My theory is that ghrelin gets reprogrammed. Studies show ghrelin rising to order for breakfast, dinner and tea, I'm sure a paleo/hunter gatherers ghrelin wouldn't have behaved like that.

Might try the alternative day fast as well. I also seem to have a bit more sex drive too (I know too much information) but I'd have to carb up before sex, as "ketone breath" is not a turn on I reckon.

All in the interests of HPC research.

[@contradevian]

Interesting read backed up with scientific study data. Free T is what gets changed into androgen which causes baldness if its not used by doing exercise. Free T only constitutes 2% of the total amount of T in circulation, most is bound to the SHGB.

Men with depression typically have 20% lower levels of Free T and men with bellys typically have no free T at all. Men injected with T adding to the Free T levels lost the fat bellies.

You got a link for that study/research. Looks interesting!

Here is a link to a review of Tim Ferris's four hour body.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/cholesterol-blog.html

He claims his girlfriend couldn't get enough of him due to his high T and all the pheremones he was giving out.

Ferriss had found his testosterone in the low-normal range, down at 244.8 ng/dl (nanograms per deciliter) and his sperm count declining. After spending 21 days in Nicaragua eating organic, grass-fed beef three meals a day for an entirely unrelated experiment and then spending three days protein-loading on two to three pounds of this meat every day, he reunited with his girlfriend only to find her crazy about him like never before, seemingly intoxicated on pheremones. What's more, he received three times the normal amount of eye contact from all women within a ten-foot radius.

[SarahBell]

"he reunited with his girlfriend only to find her crazy about him like never before, seemingly intoxicated on pheremones. What's more, he received three times the normal amount of eye contact from all women within a ten-foot radius."

So after a long abstinence she was gagging for it and he was noticing women more?

[@contradevian]

All the guys on that raw paleo site (they eat raw grass fed fatty meat and organs - beef and lamb normally) report amazing amounts of female interest in them. But they all look pretty stupendously healthy and youthful in their photos, so I don't think it's just pheremones.

(Plus the women look hot too, to be honest, so it might not just be T.)

Can you imagine the impact on society if all the nations manhood were put on grass pastured beef?

Feeding us bird food and biodiesel was no accident IMHO!

An obedient race of crisp stuffing couch potatoes, with man boobs is in the national interest!

[@contradevian]

The link is right there with references at the bottom of the page.

Thanks. Quite interesting site that even though its basically a sales blog. He writes a devastating review of Ferris's workout technique which makes me think the rest of his book is bullocks including the Pheremones.

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/4-hour-body.htm

In it, Ferriss says that he followed a training routine based on the so-called Colorado Experiment. Despite just two 30-minute workouts per week, for a total of 4 hours of gym time, Tim claims that he gained 34 pounds of muscle in 28 days while also losing 3 pounds of fat.

What was the Colorado Experiment? And is it really possible to gain 34 pounds of muscle in 28 days using the 4-Hour Body workout?

The so-called Colorado Experiment wasn’t really an experiment. It was a giant marketing exercise by Arthur Jones, the inventor of the Nautilus range of exercise machines.

Like Phillips and Ferriss, Jones was a marketing genius. The fact people are still talking about the Colorado Experiment 30 years on shows what a thorough job he did.

The "experiment" ran for a period of 28 days back in May 1973. In it, Casey Viator, who was the youngest ever winner of the AAU Mr. America contest in 1971, allegedly gained 63.21 pounds of muscle and lost 17.93 pounds of fat. And he did it all using only Nautilus equipment.

But according to Bill Starr, the guy who popularized the 5 x 5 training routines that are so popular at the moment, the whole thing was "a hoax."

[@contradevian]

I wonder if there is a correlation between lower levels of T and whether someone is gay or straight, likewise also bear in mind this study. Women can tell who is gay or straight when they are ovulating so are they picking up on the blokes with the most T?

T has no bearing on sexuality, only the level of sex drive, because as you point out women require T too. I could point out quite a few male homosexuals that exhibit all the features of high T that you describe. I would think most gay males have quite high sex drive given the reputation for promiscuity.

I've got quite a greasy face today

[@contradevian]

Some men are taking the female contraceptive to grow breasts so its having an effect on men and lets not forget going on the pill can increase breast sizes for women.

yes I know and perhaps unmarried straight males are as promiscuous as gay males, and you only have to read the "Orton Diaries" to see it was all going on when it was illegal.

Sexuality is a complex thing, but I don't think its down to diet. Men can dress up in women's clothes, but its a fetish, not low T. I know there are environmental assaults from the water supply, to plastic bottles that is wreaking some havoc with male/female hormones, but they won't turn you gay any more than high T in a gay man will turn him straight. They may cause your body to not develop in quite the way you want them to however.

[WorkingForTheMan]

Finding this thread really interesting. Think thats just where I am in life at the mo..

Reported earlier that I was trying a low (almost zero) carb diet..it failed (managed just over a week!). Meat meat and meat was just too much for me. I needed something else. But it was an interesting experience. My body went through a lot of changes (some good, some bad). And I haven't yet put any of the weight I lost back on which is good. I'm back on the carbs, but no white stuff, and a lot less than I used to. Mainly brown pasta and a small amount of wholemeal bread. Still pretty low carb, and def. nothing processed.

Inspired by the posts here, and my own net research (leangains et al), I've now taken the brave step of intermittant fasting. All week I've done 16hr fasts each day, not eating until 1pm and having my last food at 9ish. Its been enlightening. My first thoughts were 'how on earth can I last all that time without food?, I'm usually starving by 10am and thats after having breakfast'..

But what I found was, yes, I still get hungry at 10, but I haven't eaten yet. So effectively I've missed out all the calories from breakfast, and I still feel the same! (hungry). But the hunger isn't too bad. I used to follow the 'eat 6 times a day' routine (apparantly thats being debunked now), and I was hungry aaaall the time.. But I'm not eating at all now, and I'm probably less hungry!. The hunger I do have lasts about 10 or 15 mins. Then I'm fine again. By the time it comes to 1pm (breakfast), I'm not really bothered about it. Same in the evening. By dinnertime I'm kinda 'meh' about food.

Its very strange. It seems the more you eat the more you want to eat. And the hunger just goes away anyway. I feel no more deprived than when I ate 6 x a day! And I feel more alert, can concentrate better, have just as much energy, and I feel good that I'm bound to be losing fat

So next week I will be doing 1 or 2 full 24 hour fasts, because now I know I can.

This could really be the answer to the weight problems I've had for years. And its so easy!

[@contradevian]

But what I found was, yes, I still get hungry at 10, but I haven't eaten yet. So effectively I've missed out all the calories from breakfast, and I still feel the same! (hungry). But the hunger isn't too bad. I used to follow the 'eat 6 times a day' routine (apparantly thats being debunked now), and I was hungry aaaall the time.. But I'm not eating at all now, and I'm probably less hungry!. The hunger I do have lasts about 10 or 15 mins. Then I'm fine again. By the time it comes to 1pm (breakfast), I'm not really bothered about it. Same in the evening. By dinnertime I'm kinda 'meh' about food.

Its very strange. It seems the more you eat the more you want to eat. And the hunger just goes away anyway. I feel no more deprived than when I ate 6 x a day! And I feel more alert, can concentrate better, have just as much energy, and I feel good that I'm bound to be losing fat

So next week I will be doing 1 or 2 full 24 hour fasts, because now I know I can.

This could really be the answer to the weight problems I've had for years. And its so easy!

Excellent this is what I have been finding. In fact I've been quite wired when fasting and hyperactive. I've not wanted to end the fast because I have to go through the whole "eat and wanting to eat again" process. Indeed you reach a kind of karma where you think you can go on for ever.

Also went for a brisk walk this evening which inevitably takes me past fast food, not tempted.

Think its great that quite a few on HPC is trying out fasting. I really thing "hunger" is the normal state, however when you get into it, its not really hunger at all.

[cattius]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Diabetes-Low-Calorie-Diet-Reverses-Type-2-Diabetes-Says-Newcastle-University-Professor-Roy-Taylor/Article/201106416017793?f=rss

Low calorie diet cures type 2 diabetes!

Looks like this is becoming more mainstream.

[@contradevian]

Brilliant!

(They're still using junk like slimming shakes and zero-calorie drinks, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. (I suppose they have to allow for mainstream tastes (diet coke, etc.), or people won't do it.))

It sure is, but it won't be an acceptable solution. People must be allowed doughnuts!

There will be some seriously annoyed pharma is this dangerous "cure" is implemented!

[gilf]

I've been following this thread but can't remember if this report has been mentioned yet.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/potatoes-bad-nuts-good-for-staying-slim-harvard-study-finds/2011/06/17/AGRWmIgH_story.html

Ghrelin gets a mention for all you fans out there.

[gilf]

When I used to go to the gym every day I wouldnt spend long there, one or two hard fast reps was it on all the machines, little resting other than what it took to walk to the next machine set the weights etc.

However I cant ignore when I used to walk to work and have a double cooked breakfast skip lunch and something light for tea. After about 6months I had developed a six pack with no exercise other than walking fast.

I spent 4 years, on and off, trying to work off the weight at the gym, I'd lose the odd pound here and there but it would always stop after a few weeks/months. I remember one time I worked like a dog for two weeks really pushing myself and at the end of it weighed the same. Might well have been partly due to putting on a bit of muscle but that is not the point as I wasn't doing it to put on muscle.

The key thing was I was eating "more healthy" which included a tons of pasta and rice, because for the previous 30 years the advice was always cut out the fatty foods.

The only thing that has ever worked and which I'm doing now is a total cut down on carbs, I'm not saying exercise is not important but the only way to realistically shift the weight is radically reducing you calorie intake and be smarter about what food you eat.

[@contradevian]

I've been following this thread but can't remember if this report has been mentioned yet.

http://www.washingto...mIgH_story.html

Ghrelin gets a mention for all you fans out there.

Not sure why they have singled out potatoes, when there are worse offenders such as bread and breakfast cereals. I can only think that potato farmers are unlikely to fight back, unlike processed grain manufacturers who will and often supply the budgets for studies.

Mayeb they should look at the Kitava diet?

On the island of Kitava there are coconuts, sweet potatoes, yams, a few other starches and fish to eat. This leads to an interesting diet. The estimated percentages of energy from protein, fat and carbohydrates are 10%, 21% and 69% in Kitava. Most of the fat is saturated. Three quarters of the population smoke.

Obviously high carb eating should mean catastrophic blood lipids. You would expect low HDL cholesterol and high triglycerides. And this is exactly what you find. HDL-C down at 1.1mmol/l (some as low as 0.5mmol/l) and triglycerides up at 1.7mmol/l (some up at 3.0mmol/l). Not a good ratio. They smoke too. Must be a hotbed of cardiovascular disease. Especially as some of the total cholesterol readings were up around the (gasp) 7.0mmol/l mark. Pravastatin in the local well water is the obvious answer.

Except they have no heart disease. On a diet of 70% carbohydrate. Life expectancy, ignoring neonatal mortality which appears to be high, is around seventy years. That's without any medical facilities. How do they do it?

http://high-fat-nutr...-of-kitava.html

[gilf]

Except they have no heart disease. On a diet of 70% carbohydrate. Life expectancy, ignoring neonatal mortality which appears to be high, is around seventy years. That's without any medical facilities. How do they do it?

I'd imagine they are not sitting in front of a computer all day and rather than popping along to the shops in their car they have to actually go out and find the food they are going to eat.

[@contradevian]

I'd imagine they are not sitting in front of a computer all day and rather than popping along to the shops in their car they have to actually go out and find the food they are going to eat.

Ok I'm sure that is part of it, however the article goes on..

Their average fasting glucose is 3.7mmol/l and their fasting insulin 4.0 microU/ml. They do not have any features of metabolic syndrome! Except the lipids of course. Despite eating appalling quantities of carbohydrate. If we define metabolic syndrome as carbohydrate intolerance how do the Kitavans manage this?

I think that this goes back to the main limit on population growth, which is food. Daniel Quinn is the best source of information on this subject. As the Kitavans live with minimal Western food it seems they must be living within the food production capacity of their island. The basic principle is that populations grow to the limit set by their food supply. On Kitava you cannot make babies out of thin air. No extra yams means no extra people. The fluctuations in food and population must mean there are fluctuations in hunger and plenty, but if populations really do expand to the limits of food supply, the island location must ultimately apply calorie restriction. On average.

Ad lib food on a global basis has resulted in a population explosion. On an individual basis it results in a waistline explosion. As carbohydrate is cheap, addictive and hunger generating it is what usually fuels the metabolic syndrome, hence "bad" lipids are associated with metabolic syndrome as carbohydrates are the usual tool of excess calorie intake.

Calorie restriction, intermittent fasting and once daily eating all limit the development of insulin resistance and hyperglycaemia, pretty well independent of macro nutrient ratio. On Kitava there must be accidental calorie restriction as the population is in equilibrium with with a fixed food supply, hence no metabolic syndrome. Despite the "bad" lipids, which merely reflect the composition of their restricted diet.