Bank Run In Greece

[goldbug9999]

Wow, you must be a real optimist.

My nephew employs Russian IT workers and they refuse to be paid in Euros or Pounds

they want Dollars.

They arnt making any sort of judgement, rather its just that ex ussr countries use the $ as an unofficial second currency for a long time.

[Game_Over]

They arnt making any sort of judgement, rather its just that ex ussr countries use the $ as an unofficial second currency for a long time.

They won't accept payment in pounds or Euros

That seems like a judgement to me.

[MongerOfDoom]

Other central banks may offer to exchange any Greek Euros held by their own citizens into their own national Euros but I doubt they would do this for other nationals.

There is only one ECB. BTW, If there are 200 million people who can exchange "Greek" Euros for "proper" ones, is there anything you anticipate might happen?

[mfp123]

I am saying that the notes were made identifiabe in order to facilitate a rapid exit or ejection from the single currency.

In this event Greek Euros would become 'Drachmas' and would NOT be worth the same as other Euros

Other central banks may offer to exchange any Greek Euros held by their own citizens into their own national Euros but I doubt they would do this for other nationals.

I suspect it would actually take months to design, print and distribute a replacement currency on the scale required. It would not be like replacing old notes - because all notes in circulation would have to be replaced in one go.

what part of single currency dont you get? its been said a thousand times now.

euros are backed by the ECB. greece does not own the euro.

euros wont become drachmas, they will be exchanged for drachmas.

the face value of 1 euro is 1 euro. it does not matter who printed the actual note.

countries do not all have different currencies all called the euro. there is only 1 currency - the euro.

[Game_Over]

There is only one ECB. BTW, If there are 200 million people who can exchange "Greek" Euros for "proper" ones, is there anything you anticipate might happen?

What is the Deutsche Bundesbank then?

[Game_Over]

what part of single currency dont you get? its been said a thousand times now.

euros are backed by the ECB. greece does not own the euro.

euros wont become drachmas, they will be exchanged for drachmas.

the face value of 1 euro is 1 euro. it does not matter who printed the actual note.

countries do not all have different currencies all called the euro. there is only 1 currency - the euro.

If Greece exits the Euro, Greek Euros will become Drachmas - until millions of Drachmas are printed.

And they cannot possibly have a different value than Greek Euro deposits in banks which will just become Drachmas.

This will mean that Greek Euro notes will be worth less than all other Euros.

And the part of the single currency you don't get is the most important

It will never work - Ever

For reasons which have been apparent to some people for years and which are becoming blindingly obvious to everyone now.

Apart from you seemingly.

[mfp123]

If Greece exits the Euro, Greek Euros will become Drachmas - until millions of Drachmas are printed.

And they cannot possibly have a different value than Greek Euro deposits in banks which will just become Drachmas.

This will mean that Greek Euro notes will be worth less than all other Euros.

And the part of the single currency you don't get is the most important

It will never work - Ever

For reasons which have been apparent to some people for years and which are becoming blindingly obvious to everyone now.

no, greece will print drachmas and exchange them for euros.

those euros will be held by the greek central bank in their foreign reserve accounts.

the face value of those euros in those accounts is 1 euro per 1 euro. those euros are worth the same. the fact that your drachmas are worth less, most probably dropping in value the very day after they are given to you is a totally different issue.

when it exchanges drachmas for euros they are not destroying euros from the money system. they are buying them from you using new drachmas.

if you had gold in your bank account and they confiscated your gold for drachmas, that gold would still be worth whatever the price of gold is. it will just be owned by greece and held in their vaults.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

Ultimately, as long as the ECB still recognises greek issued euro notes as euro notes, none of this alarmist crap matters.

If your petrol station wont take them, you just take them to your bank and deposit them, then withdraw German/French/whatever notes from the nearest cashpoint.

The problem that should be worrying us is if the Greek government is issuing new euros to give to the banks to stop the bank runs bankrupting them. If this is happening it could actually lead to an actual war.

If Greece prints, say 500bn Euros and gives them to it's banks, which give them to their depositors and creditors, Greece will have printed it's way to being xxx% richer than it was was, and xxx% richer in comparison to the Germans. The Krauts wont stand for this.

[Game_Over]

no, greece will print drachmas and exchange them for euros.

those euros will be held by the greek central bank in their foreign reserve accounts.

the face value of those euros in those accounts is 1 euro per 1 euro. those euros are worth the same. the fact that your drachmas are worth less, most probably dropping in value the very day after they are given to you is a totally different issue.

when it exchanges drachmas for euros they are not destroying euros from the money system. they are buying them from you using new drachmas.

if you had gold in your bank account and they confiscated your gold for drachmas, that gold would still be worth whatever the price of gold is. it will just be owned by greece and held in their vaults.

Sorry, but I don't think it is that simple.

If they exchanged all existing Euros with Drachmas and the Euros retained their original value then the Drachmas would be worthless.

Either that or they would have hugely increased the money supply overnight.

[The Masked Tulip]

There is no bank run in Greece - it is all the delusions of this site.

[billybong]

A practical issue in the question of whether Greek euros can become drachmas is whether the fact that the Y in front of the serial number makes sufficient difference for the average shop assistant to spot every time there's a transaction. The same applies to bank tellers although they are more likely to be more diligent it would still a super tedious task to expect of them to spot the Y every time.

Another matter is if the ECB were to say even if Greece decided to go drachma the ECB would still honour Greek euros at full euro value in any transaction in Greece. So if the people continued to use them rather than the Greek drachmas they would in effect be voting away their sovereignty to the likes of Germany because of the euro's relative strength *as well as undermining the drachma in an economic war sort of way.

Much like many 3rd world countries have often ceded significant amounts of power to the US through the unofficial use of and the strength of the dollar in those countries. So presumably Greece would have to outlaw that from the start?

*Edited to add: as well as undermining the drachma in an economic war sort of way.

[Fairies Wear Boots]

If Greece exits the Euro, Greek Euros will become Drachmas - until millions of Drachmas are printed.

And they cannot possibly have a different value than Greek Euro deposits in banks which will just become Drachmas.

This will mean that Greek Euro notes will be worth less than all other Euros.

And the part of the single currency you don't get is the most important

It will never work - Ever

For reasons which have been apparent to some people for years and which are becoming blindingly obvious to everyone now.

Apart from you seemingly.

For gods sake. If you have a greek issued fifty euro note, go to france after (if) Greece drops out of the euro, walk up to the tills in a shop and give them your fifty euro note, they're not going to look at it and say "no sorry, that's one of those greek euros".

Nor will any greek nationals with money in German banks be told, sorry, but we're going to have to replace those with Greek drachmas, as we have discovered you are Greek.

It will be interesting to see what will happen if they do decide to drop out of the euro, and people think the new drachma will fall. People with money in Greek banks refusing to convert back to drachma?

[The Masked Tulip]

But TMT, isn't the first post a link to an article about a bank run in Greece?

No, it is mass delusion. You know, like one of those Star Trek plots where the crew thinks they are seeing their fantasies made real, but it really is an alien about to devour them.

[ChumpusRex]

If Greece exits the Euro, Greek Euros will become Drachmas - until millions of Drachmas are printed.

And they cannot possibly have a different value than Greek Euro deposits in banks which will just become Drachmas.

This will mean that Greek Euro notes will be worth less than all other Euros.

This shouldn't happen. The whole point of the Euro currency is that the ECB guarantees that all Euro notes (or electronic reserves) are equivalent in value.

If Greece exits the Euro, then the same process a happened when Greece entered the Euro will occur. The government will print Drachmas, and use them to buy Euros from you (likely at a specified, and fixed exchange rate, for a period of time) - similarly, people with Euro deposits at banks will be able to exchange them for Drachmas. It may well be possible to retain some Euros, as the Euro will continue to exist (whereas when joining the Euro the old Drachma was essentially taken out of circulation meaning that it would be useless to retain some).

The government will then issue Drachmas, and pay all government bills in Drachmas, and demand Drachmas in taxes. Once a sufficient number of new Drachmas are in circulation, the government will cease to control the exchange rate, and allow them to float on the exchange markets.

In this type of scenario, one could conceive of a system where the new Drachma is largely shunned by the population, and the Euro remains the preferred currency of the 'black economy' (i.e. the currency of sole traders and small businesses).

[Game_Over]

For gods sake. If you have a greek issued fifty euro note, go to france after (if) Greece drops out of the euro, walk up to the tills in a shop and give them your fifty euro note, they're not going to look at it and say "no sorry, that's one of those greek euros".

Nor will any greek nationals with money in German banks be told, sorry, but we're going to have to replace those with Greek drachmas, as we have discovered you are Greek.

It will be interesting to see what will happen if they do decide to drop out of the euro, and people think the new drachma will fall. People with money in Greek banks refusing to convert back to drachma?

My post at 10:54 says it all.

If Greece leaves the Euro and Greek Euros retain their original value then what would be the point of them leaving.

Other people seem to think the Greek government will swap drachmas for Euros which will then retain their original value.

If that was the case the new Drachma would by definition be worthless.

ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE.

[The Masked Tulip]

My post at 10:54 says it all.

If Greece leaves the Euro and Greek Euros retain their original value then what would be the point of them leaving.

Other people seem to think the Greek government will swap drachmas for Euros which will then retain their original value.

If that was the case the new Drachma would by definition be worthless.

ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE.

If the Greeks leave the Euro and replace it with the Drachma the Drachma will most likely be devalued by about 50% against the Euro.

I suspect they would not do it in one go - they would try 10%, then another 15% but the markets will dictate the price. Or they might try a straight 50% devaluation to avert the markets devaluing it by more than 50%?

Either way, a Drachma will not be worth the same as a Euro.

[Game_Over]

This shouldn't happen. The whole point of the Euro currency is that the ECB guarantees that all Euro notes (or electronic reserves) are equivalent in value.

If Greece exits the Euro, then the same process a happened when Greece entered the Euro will occur. The government will print Drachmas, and use them to buy Euros from you (likely at a specified, and fixed exchange rate, for a period of time) - similarly, people with Euro deposits at banks will be able to exchange them for Drachmas. It may well be possible to retain some Euros, as the Euro will continue to exist (whereas when joining the Euro the old Drachma was essentially taken out of circulation meaning that it would be useless to retain some).

The government will then issue Drachmas, and pay all government bills in Drachmas, and demand Drachmas in taxes. Once a sufficient number of new Drachmas are in circulation, the government will cease to control the exchange rate, and allow them to float on the exchange markets.

In this type of scenario, one could conceive of a system where the new Drachma is largely shunned by the population, and the Euro remains the preferred currency of the 'black economy' (i.e. the currency of sole traders and small businesses).

Bloody Hell

If the Greek government prints Drachmas and buys up Euros on a one for one basis as an example

for the Euros thus purchased to retain their original value the Drachmas would have to be worthless

Otherwise they would have doubled the money supply overnight

[The Eagle]

Game Over is a bored housewife who gets all her "knowledge" from the Daily Mail and likes to troll here on HPC.co.uk to wind you up.

By replying to her bu11shit you give her the attention she craves, just ignore her, she'll be gone in no time if nobody replies to her.

[Game_Over]

If the Greeks leave the Euro and replace it with the Drachma the Drachma will most likely be devalued by about 50% against the Euro.

I suspect they would not do it in one go - they would try 10%, then another 15% but the markets will dictate the price. Or they might try a straight 50% devaluation to avert the markets devaluing it by more than 50%?

Either way, a Drachma will not be worth the same as a Euro.

If as others here are suggesting, the Euros 'purchased' with new drachmas went straight to reserves retaining their original value, the new drachmas would have to have a negative value.

Either I am misunderstanding something fundamental or they are morons.

[Game_Over]

Game Over is a bored housewife who gets all her "knowledge" from the Daily Mail and likes to troll here on HPC.co.uk to wind you up.

By replying to her bu11shit you give her the attention she craves, just ignore her, she'll be gone in no time if nobody replies to her.

Err............

Another useful and illuminating contribution.

Funny how my ******** turns out to be true a couple of years down the line.

[billybong]

Then what's to stop the Greeks from printing billions or trillions of euros with the German prefix

Storm troopers apart that is

[_w_]

Game Over is a bored housewife who gets all her "knowledge" from the Daily Mail and likes to troll here on HPC.co.uk to wind you up.

By replying to her bu11shit you give her the attention she craves, just ignore her, she'll be gone in no time if nobody replies to her.

Do you actually have a suitable level of experience or knowledge to make that call, and I don't mean a few google searches?

Can you point us to the relevant bits in the statutes, laws and treaties that underline your point?

I think not but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

[The Eagle]

Do you actually have a suitable level of experience or knowledge to make that call, and I don't mean a few google searches?

Can you point us to the relevant bits in the statutes, laws and treaties that underline your point?

I think not but I'd be happy to be proved wrong.

are you sure you quoted the correct post you meant to reply to?

I didn't know there were statutes and treaties with regards to bored housewifes trolling on forums...

I guess you were actually replying to Game Over, don't bother she will never come up with the proof you ask for since she is making it all up anyway.

Maybe someone should give her a good f**k, to stop her from trolling on here...

[ebear]

They lifted 1.5 billion Thursday and Friday from banks

Here's another link to the same story in what looks like a Greek newspaper - top story - http://www.adesmeytos.gr/

[_w_]

are you sure you quoted the correct post you meant to reply to?

I didn't know there were statutes and treaties with regards to bored housewifes trolling on forums...

No. But seriously, how do you know what she says is nonsense?

Her point seems improbable to me but then again, we found out a few weeks ago that the Irish CB did some euro printing of its own. That was certainly unexpected by most.

How do we know whether those bank notes, however irrelevant they may be, aren't associated with a specific issuing CB. How do we know that the ECB statutes or whatever treaties the ECB was founded on, don't allow for each EU country's euro supply to be identified.

We've had a number of posts expressing disbelief and some condescending posts by the usual cohort of pathological patronisers but I've yet to read anything substantial to confirm she's writing nonsense.

Do you know? I don't.