Nhs Public Sector Being Ripped Off

[jfk]

Another example of stupidly high costs being extorted out of the public sector - in this case the NHS.

I work in the NHS and have a loathing of the top-heavy "management" that we have, they are implementing cutting of the front-services that I am involved in delivering.

Anyway, another example is the ludicrous amounts that we pay for the "NHS preferrred supplier".

Example:

Colleague works for the university in our NHS environment. He has access to the university on-line purchasing database.

Item: 2TB Western Digital 'green' internal hard drive.

Now I know from personal experience that these can be purchased from the local computer shop for around £70-90

University cost: £90

NHS "preferred supplier" cost:

.... £160

Un-f*cking believable isn't it?

... even taking out the VAT that the NHS has to pay the quoted cost for the hard drive was £140!!!!

I just despair - the purchasing power of the NHS, the numpties who have set this up and agreed to it... and we cannot just trot over to the local computer shop and purchase something for nearly 50% of the cost....

... discuss

[Si1]

empire building - if a manager increases the ongoing cost of their department, then they can justify more staff, more budget, and greater salary and perks for themselves

[richc]

Another example of stupidly high costs being extorted out of the public sector - in this case the NHS.

I work in the NHS and have a loathing of the top-heavy "management" that we have, they are implementing cutting of the front-services that I am involved in delivering.

Anyway, another example is the ludicrous amounts that we pay for the "NHS preferrred supplier".

Example:

Colleague works for the university in our NHS environment. He has access to the university on-line purchasing database.

Item: 2TB Western Digital 'green' internal hard drive.

Now I know from personal experience that these can be purchased from the local computer shop for around £70-90

University cost: £90

NHS "preferred supplier" cost:

.... £160

Un-f*cking believable isn't it?

... even taking out the VAT that the NHS has to pay the quoted cost for the hard drive was £140!!!!

I just despair - the purchasing power of the NHS, the numpties who have set this up and agreed to it... and we cannot just trot over to the local computer shop and purchase something for nearly 50% of the cost....

... discuss

Not that I don't believe there to be a lot of waste in gov't procurement, but you can't look at the price of a single item within these systems. Individual items might be more expensive, but if the total spend is lower by bundling all purchases through the preferred buyer, then it makes sense to use the preferred buyer. You can only really see this, however, by looking at all prices and quantities purchased.

[scappers]

Chap I know says some sort of 'baby monitor' they make costs about £70, they charged the NHS about £30,000 for it. Who knows, he might have been full of it, but that's the sort of mark up that's quite believable. A few back handers to the purchasers is all it takes.

[efdemin]

Chap I know says some sort of 'baby monitor' they make costs about £70, they charged the NHS about £30,000 for it. Who knows, he might have been full of it, but that's the sort of mark up that's quite believable. A few back handers to the purchasers is all it takes.

Although that sounds like a horrendous mark-up, any idea of how complicated it might be? Production isn't the only cost - the design costs are large, licensing if using other companies hardware/software, testing, etc. If it's only a small volume widget then the unit cost will be higher anyway.

For example, consumer devices like the iPad usually only have about 10-30% of the final retail cost in terms of hardware. The other 90% goes on sales tax, retailer cut, marketing, R&D, etc.

Edited April 18, 2011 by efdemin

[ken_ichikawa]

Although that sounds like a horrendous mark-up, any idea of how complicated it might be? Production isn't the only cost - the design costs are large, licensing if using other companies hardware/software, testing, etc. If it's only a small volume widget then the unit cost will be higher anyway.

For example, consumer devices like the iPad usually only have about 10-30% of the final retail cost in terms of hardware. The other 90% goes on sales tax, retailer cut, marketing, R&D, etc.

AWOOGA!

[TeddyBear]

Not that I don't believe there to be a lot of waste in gov't procurement, but you can't look at the price of a single item within these systems. Individual items might be more expensive, but if the total spend is lower by bundling all purchases through the preferred buyer, then it makes sense to use the preferred buyer. You can only really see this, however, by looking at all prices and quantities purchased.

Believe me, it's not individual items, it's all items. Friend in NHS went and bought her own desklamp from IKEA as in the NHS catalogue it was £60 for the most basic. It's like this for all items she tells me. Everything seems to run 20 - 30% more than from average office suppliers.

[ken_ichikawa]

Believe me, it's not individual items, it's all items. Friend in NHS went and bought her own desklamp from IKEA as in the NHS catalogue it was £60 for the most basic. It's like this for all items she tells me. Everything seems to run 20 - 30% more than from average office suppliers.

I've said it plenty of times there simply is no motivation to save money in the public sector, as your customers are captive and cannot say no.

[Bloo Loo]

I've said it plenty of times there simply is no motivation to save money in the public sector, as your customers are captive and cannot say no.

the systems dont keep up.

take the 1TB hard drive. probably WAS £160 6 months ago...so it stays on the system at that....lazy buyers just fill in the forms and order at the last price.

we did this to Granada...they got us to cost some 212MB HDDs, we quoted...

they ordered then till they became obsolete and repriced the new size...at the quoted price.

[efdemin]

AWOOGA!

?????

[winkie]

happens all over the public sector.you'd be amazed what you can pay for some bic biro's...........

Why would they care what they are spending....it's not their money...they spend/waste it someone else ends up paying for it, I am sure they would not be so liberal with the cheque book if it was felt in their back pockets.

[Jadoube]

I've said it plenty of times there simply is no motivation to save money in the public sector, as your customers are captive and cannot say no.

Same can be true of the private sector.

Example: I have the good fortune to have private health care through my employer and so took advantage of it when my wife was ill. One time, rather than the usual process of cosily sending the bill direct to the insurance the hospital sent it to me, so I could pass it on to the insurer.

The bill was b0llocks, didn't correspond in any way to the treatment my wife had received. So I sent it back pointing this out and received a new bill referring to correct (but entirely different) treatments - for exactly the same amount!

Smelling a rat I informed the health insurance provider. They did sod all, simply paid the bill. Funnily next finanical year the premiums for my employer went up.

Captive market, with the added disdadvantage of being a captive market under the heel of a profit motive. The person to whom the service is provided is not the person paying the bill. The person paying does not get the info to check whether the bill is valid - and can only compare prices between a number of organisations - all of whom are playing the same game.

There is no more motivation to save money in private sector healthcare than in the NHS.

[ken_ichikawa]

Same can be true of the private sector.

There is no more motivation to save money in private sector healthcare than in the NHS.

Unless it is a unique seller/monopoly theres plenty of motivation to save money also you don't get the public/private sector divide.

The public sector is in effect a bunch of gangsters who are extortionists.

Private

I.e. I don't like Tesco I do not go to Tesco, I go to ASDA or the 100s of other indie stores which sell things Tesco sell. There are no consequences of going else where and saying no to such companies. You say no? Nothing happens, I don't get whatever I wanted but I can go elsewhere.

Public

I don't want a lot of things the UK government (the entire public sector) provides. I don't want an army, I would prefer mercenaries instead. I don't want to pay for council pensions, I don;t want diversity coordinators, recycling coordinators, I don;t want teaching assistants when a good teacher was enough in my own school life.

Can I say no? Of course not if I say no i.e. with hold my taxes the government sends thugs around to break my legs. They foist thing on me which I don;t want and do not allow me to refuse. This is the KEY difference. Private sector (real not government dependent private sector) you can say no to. The public sector is backed by fiat violence. Thus if you have a completely captive audience which can never say no you can abuse this monopoly position as much as you like.

[SNACR]

From my experience with public sector procurement I'd make a couple of points.

Many of the people who set up these businesses supplying the public sector are ex-public sector and know the stupid hoops to jump through.

However, jumping through those hoops does cost ie making sure products meet sustainability criteria, your workforce is appropriately diverse and your waste disposing meets set recycling targets.

Finally, there's the overall cost of the contract. If they constantly order stuff by mistake/ return stuff they'll probably demand this is done for free. However, all that happens is the initial price will be loaded to compensate.

The public sector does definitely return vastly more incorrectly ordered items than private businesses.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

[LuckyOne]

And don't forget to add in the additional cost of quangoes / trusts etc to ensure that the public sector are held accountable by the oversight required of unelected, non-legislative, independent bodies to ensure that the taxpayer receives value for money.

[winkie]

And don't forget to add in the additional cost of quangoes / trusts etc to ensure that the public sector are held accountable by the oversight required of unelected, non-legislative, independent bodies to ensure that the taxpayer receives value for money.

...from my understanding is if it is not spent it is not needed, so less is given the following year....if you don't use it you lose it mentality......