Part-Time Jobs - Hiding The True Level Of Unemployment In The Uk

[Saberu]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/14/unemployment-part-time-working-record-high

Apparantly there are 7.82 million part-time workers in the UK. Part-time employees are great fun, less workers rights, easier to fire, more flexible especially for unsociable hours and you don't need to pay them holiday pay, sick pay or for lunch breaks.

This article is a few months old but highlights a point I wanted to make which has been touched upon in many threads but really deserves it's own thread. There are a lot of threads right now about unemployment and wondering why it's so high especially for young people.

On another news article I saw private sector employment is 23 million. If we assume 3 million of those are actually public > private sector contracts (it's probably higher than that) then that's 20 million.

Then according to the above Gaurdian article 25% of the workforce is part-time. So we are looking at about 15 million purely private sector jobs in the UK.

Apparantly the population of the UK is 62 million and 62% are of working age (aged 16 to 64 for males and 16 to 59 for females).

That's 38.5 million people of working age. A crude mathematical calculation will tell you that just over 60% of working age people in the UK are not in full time wealth creating jobs.

Apparantly there are 6 million public sector workers in the UK. If we add these to the number of private sector workers, we have 29 million. This suggests a real rate of unemployment of around 25%, which is especially relevant considering students and stay at home parents can and do take part-time jobs. With 600,000 public sector jobs about to be lost this could increase by another 2%.

If you take away 8 million from the 29 million figure, because let's face it part-time jobs are not proper 'make a living' type jobs and should not be counted. Then (21/38.5) you end up with a figure of 45% for unemployment/ underemployment.

With almost half of our working age population unemployed or underemployed and an artificially high cost of living in comparison to most Western countries our country is in crisis.

So to summarise,

• 60% not in full-time wealth creating jobs.
  
• 25% completely unemployed
  
• 45% either unemployed or underemployed
  

[Keep Walking]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/14/unemployment-part-time-working-record-high

Apparantly there are 7.82 million part-time workers in the UK. Part-time employees are great fun, less workers rights, easier to fire, more flexible especially for unsociable hours and you don't need to pay them holiday pay, sick pay or for lunch breaks.

This article is a few months old but highlights a point I wanted to make which has been touched upon in many threads but really deserves it's own thread. There are a lot of threads right now about unemployment and wondering why it's so high especially for young people.

On another news article I saw private sector employment is 23 million. If we assume 3 million of those are actually public > private sector contracts (it's probably higher than that) then that's 20 million.

Then according to the above Gaurdian article 25% of the workforce is part-time. So we are looking at about 15 million purely private sector jobs in the UK.

Apparantly the population of the UK is 62 million and 62% are of working age (aged 16 to 64 for males and 16 to 59 for females).

That's 38.5 million people of working age. A crude mathematical calculation will tell you that just over 60% of working age people in the UK are not in full time wealth creating jobs.

Apparantly there are 6 million public sector workers in the UK. If we add these to the number of private sector workers, we have 29 million. This suggests a real rate of unemployment of around 25%, which is especially relevant considering students and stay at home parents can and do take part-time jobs. With 600,000 public sector jobs about to be lost this could increase by another 2%.

=Reduction in the velocity of money, (all be it marginalised by job share), concomitant with the reduction in supply of money, = asset price reduction

If you take away 8 million from the 29 million figure, because let's face it part-time jobs are not proper 'make a living' type jobs and should not be counted. Then (21/38.5) you end up with a figure of 45% for unemployment/ underemployment.

With almost half of our working age population unemployed or underemployed and an artificially high cost of living in comparison to most Western countries our country is in crisis.

So to summarise,

• 60% not in full-time wealth creating jobs.

• 25% completely unemployed

• 45% either unemployed or underemployed

[SarahBell]

part time is good for business. tax credits are good for part timers. tax credits are not good for tax payers. part time is not good for tax payers.

[council dweller]

I just wonder if people are moving from IB and JSA to Income Support? If so it would save a bit of money and more importantly would keep the unemployment numbers down. More and more we're going all 'Potemkin Village.'!

I'm a 16.5 hour worker and I'm quite happy with that...and at least I get holidays!

[ken_ichikawa]

So to summarise,

• 60% not in full-time wealth creating jobs.

• 25% completely unemployed

• 45% either unemployed or underemployed

Yup. There is also the phenomenon amongst the younger riders of my group of temping where jobs last a week at most they get a spell of unemployment then another scatty week then another etc.

[council dweller]

part time is good for business.

Yes, employing part-timers is good for profits this year but next year all those part-timers will have sweet FA to spend. Of course, the answer to this problem is more part-timers to increase profits.....

[interestrateripoff]

As well as part time work hiding numbers, I suspect there are a lot of people who've had there 6 months of JSA and then because they don't qualify for income support because there partner works they sign off and are not on the figures.

I've not come across any stats for the numbers who've had JSA but then not continued to sign off because they no longer qualify. A breakdown of what happens to people at the end of the 6 months of JSA. How many find work (what type full/part time), move to income support or sign off because they have a partner that works.

[tim123]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/14/unemployment-part-time-working-record-high

Apparantly there are 7.82 million part-time workers in the UK. Part-time employees are great fun, less workers rights, easier to fire, more flexible especially for unsociable hours and you don't need to pay them holiday pay, sick pay or for lunch breaks.

Except that none of that is true. PT worked have exactly the same rights: not to be fired, not have their shifts changed unilaterally, to sick/holiday pay as FT workers and no-one needs to be paid for lunch breaks - so that point's irrelevent.

tim

[council dweller]

Except that none of that is true. PT worked have exactly the same rights: not to be fired, not have their shifts changed unilaterally, to sick/holiday pay as FT workers and no-one needs to be paid for lunch breaks - so that point's irrelevent.

tim

Yes I have all those benefits. But isn't that just for permanant part-time?

[ken_ichikawa]

Except that none of that is true. PT worked have exactly the same rights: not to be fired, not have their shifts changed unilaterally, to sick/holiday pay as FT workers and no-one needs to be paid for lunch breaks - so that point's irrelevent.

tim

Riiight and just because these laws exist in place means nobody ever breaks those kinds of laws?

[Saberu]

Except that none of that is true. PT worked have exactly the same rights: not to be fired, not have their shifts changed unilaterally, to sick/holiday pay as FT workers and no-one needs to be paid for lunch breaks - so that point's irrelevent.

First I've heard of it. When I was working part-time while I was a student I would have been laughed at for expecting to be able to pull a sicky (even with a doctor's note) and still be paid, or say to my manager I was going to take 2 weeks holiday because I'd been there for a year etc.

As for not having shifts changed uniliaterally, it happens all the time for agency waiting work because shifts can be sporradic and at multiple places. Many part-time jobs you will agree to uneven shifts/ agree to be flexible when you join up and you are more likely to be hired.

But I think we are really digressing from the main point of my thread here, and this is just knitpicking. My thread was trying to highlight the true scale of unemployment in this country as I think the offiicial figures (what are they 8% now?) are very missleading.

[OnlyMe]

First I've heard of it. When I was working part-time while I was a student I would have been laughed at for expecting to be able to pull a sicky (even with a doctor's note) and still be paid, or say to my manager I was going to take 2 weeks holiday because I'd been there for a year etc.

As for not having shifts changed uniliaterally, it happens all the time for agency waiting work because shifts can be sporradic and at multiple places. Many part-time jobs you will agree to uneven shifts/ agree to be flexible when you join up and you are more likely to be hired.

But I think we are really digressing from the main point of my thread here, and this is just knitpicking. My thread was trying to highlight the true scale of unemployment in this country as I think the offiicial figures (what are they 8% now?) are very missleading.

Maybe you are confusing part-time status in areas like the public sector with reality on the ground nearlyy everwhere else (apart from a few corporates).

Underemployment is an even bigger issue than par time. There is no skills shortage, there are lots of people doing jobs for which they are woefully over-skilled.

[tim123]

Riiight and just because these laws exist in place means nobody ever breaks those kinds of laws?

If an employer is minder to ignore employment law for his part timers he will be minded to ignore it for his full timers. The enforcement process is exactly the same.

tim

[tim123]

First I've heard of it. When I was working part-time while I was a student I would have been laughed at for expecting to be able to pull a sicky (even with a doctor's note) and still be paid, or say to my manager I was going to take 2 weeks holiday because I'd been there for a year etc.

The relevent law for contractual benefits is:

The Employment Protection (Part-time Employees) Regulations 1995

The relevent law for minimun holidays is the Working Time Directive 1998.

tim

[porca misèria]

Part-time is a great lifestyle choice for those who can get it. Time to pursue more than one occupation simultaneously without giving up on free time and social life. Or to work while studying. Or for the busy parent fitting a life around sprogs.

My own ideal lifestyle choice would mix part-time on a secure payroll with my own more exciting but less secure projects.

[ken_ichikawa]

Part-time is a great lifestyle choice for those who can get it. Time to pursue more than one occupation simultaneously without giving up on free time and social life. Or to work while studying. Or for the busy parent fitting a life around sprogs.

My own ideal lifestyle choice would mix part-time on a secure payroll with my own more exciting but less secure projects.

Except for the lower income which means you can't afford anything and spend most of your income on housing costs.

[tinker]

Underemployment is an even bigger issue than par time. There is no skills shortage, there are lots of people doing jobs for which they are woefully over-skilled.

And it's going to get worse, because there simply aren't enough jobs, and an oversupply of people.

In the long term it must be completely demoralising all round - the dumbing down of work; the fear, the stifling of talent - and ambition.

How many people are dumbing down CVs to go for roles that in theory are below the level they reached previously.

There is growth in retail (supermarkets!) - each new development promising hundreds of jobs: when you get down to it, they create a lot of low-paid, part-time jobs, no doubt tax efficient for the employer.

I've little doubt that unemployment is understated and underemployment is rife. Still at least our houses are still worth a lot of money.

[NEO72]

Of course, the upshot of F/T work being replaced by P/T is that pegging house price affordability to F/T male income becomes even less relevant - household income will be shrinking, and in turn will pull prices down.

[tomwatkins]

Posted this before but seemed apt right now. My niece (23 years old) lives in Mass (New Bedford). Unemployment rate is really high, even officially it's over 15%. She manages to do 4 (FOUR!) part time jobs, total over 55 hours per week, and still only grosses $40,000 (around 24K GBP). She has no parents to fall back on but never complains. She has no unemployment to fall back on or long term benefits and still manages to pay off her student loans. Her degree in education can't get her a full time job because of state cutbacks and she has tried out of state but no luck. It really is dire for our young folks.

[tim123]

Posted this before but seemed apt right now. My niece (23 years old) lives in Mass (New Bedford). Unemployment rate is really high, even officially it's over 15%. She manages to do 4 (FOUR!) part time jobs, total over 55 hours per week, and still only grosses $40,000 (around 24K GBP). She has no parents to fall back on but never complains. She has no unemployment to fall back on or long term benefits and still manages to pay off her student loans. Her degree in education can't get her a full time job because of state cutbacks and she has tried out of state but no luck. It really is dire for our young folks.

If it were me I'd be volunteering to teach in Africa. The experience will be worth it in the long run

tim

[council dweller]

My own ideal lifestyle choice would mix part-time on a secure payroll with my own more exciting but less secure projects.

Yes that's it. In my case (abroad) I had a part-time business (cash) and a seasonal one (declared income)plus one or two sidelines. The end result was that I worked very little for 11 months, worked like a dog for 1 month and ended up paying no tax. But all good things come to an end (and all bad hopefully)

I should think in those terms again I guess.

[ken_ichikawa]

Posted this before but seemed apt right now. My niece (23 years old) lives in Mass (New Bedford). Unemployment rate is really high, even officially it's over 15%. She manages to do 4 (FOUR!) part time jobs, total over 55 hours per week, and still only grosses $40,000 (around 24K GBP). She has no parents to fall back on but never complains. She has no unemployment to fall back on or long term benefits and still manages to pay off her student loans. Her degree in education can't get her a full time job because of state cutbacks and she has tried out of state but no luck. It really is dire for our young folks.

This isn't really that unique. My sister used to do that she was a teacher in a private college and at nights was a restaurant manager.

Back in 2004-2006 when I was still mental (some say I haven't recovered) when money meant everything I held down an accounting job, a weekend chef job and also used to do odd jobs here and there.

[council dweller]

Except for the lower income which means you can't afford anything and spend most of your income on housing costs.

I think you missed Porca's point.

Let's say that Porca worked a 3 day week and spent the rest of the searching for antigues to sell to the Chinese market (just an example) Just finding a few items per year could make him 100K or more or possible nothing. This is the life, not the livng death of the 9 to 5.

Edited September 18, 2010 by council dweller

[porca misèria]

I think you missed Porca's point.

Let's say that Porca worked a 3 day week and spent the rest of the searching for antigues to sell to the Chinese market (just an example) Just finding a few items per year could make him 100K or more or possible nothing. This is the life, not the livng death of the 9 to 5.

Indeed. I could cite a good friend who combines part-time office work with private music tuition (and playing a church organ). The office work is security, the music is much more satisfaction, and she's had one pupil who has gone on to a distinguished career.

For myself, my own work isn't so far removed from what I'm paid regularly for. On a full-time payroll I feel obliged to turn down inquiries for consultancy work (conflict of interest) and I've more-or-less abandoned both groundbreaking new projects and "good works" projects like improving 'net access for the disabled.

[Snugglybear]

My own ideal lifestyle choice would mix part-time on a secure payroll with my own more exciting but less secure projects.

And there's the problem, right there.

Part-time on a secure payroll may be what you would choose, but it's not what employers want to give you. They want either people who will work full-time, and that means any overtime at any notice the employer cares to name, or part-time, preferably flexible and ideally zero hours, meaning of course that you can't make plans for those hours the employer doesn't want you to work. Plus employers don't want to give you security - they want employees they can fire at the drop of a hat.