Budget Will Cost 1.3M Jobs

[Damik]

They exist for the people doing the jobs. It pays the bills.

it pays their bills, but it increases bills of rest of nation ...

[Minos]

I am not arguing that we have to continue on as we have been doing.

I am just pointing out that we would have had 1.3m more people on welfare than we did and that the private sector is not going to create 2.5m

jobs. In fact I would expect offshoring of jobs to be increased.

Nobody knows where private sector jobs will come from. We just have to assume they will appear as they have done in the past. I admit I believe things are going to be very tough in the future. Whoever it is pulling the strings wants us all poor.

Do you not think it would have been cheaper to have the 1.3M on benefits rather than paying for them to do jobs which no tax payer ever required or asked for them to do?

[Northwest Smith]

Does jobs lost mean people losing their job or a hiring freeze, jobs closed when people leave, retirement positions closed or frozen

, maternity leave uncovered, temps instead of perms,

It's all very complicated.

[Fudge]

It's the responsibility of a government to create a system conducive to the private sector flourishing and creating jobs.

Do you think New Labor, with its' increase in the rate and complexity of taxation and a massive increase in red-tape did this?

I think New Labour was pro business and didnt tax business and the rich enough during the boom, thats why we had a deficit before the

bank crises hit.

[D.C.]

Would you like to highlight, why was the previous government better and how would they solve the problem (which they created in the first place) ???

Please don't take my comment as a defence of NuLabour, it wasn't, I didn't mention them at all, it was a critique of the current bunch (who I voted for).

I had hoped that the Tory leadership had matured enough to admit that last time round they were saved by oil and not ideology and I had hoped that the liberal part of the coalition would have sufficient teeth to hold back the ideologues to produce good policies.

Unfortunately they seem to be trying to out Tory the Tories instead.

Seriously where do you think these 2.5 million jobs in the private sector are going to come from?

The much vaunted games industry, the shining star of the modern British economy employs a grand total of 13,500 people in this country.

What exactly are we going to do in the space of five years to add the equivalent of 185 games industries?

[D.C.]

PS just for a bit more info on the games industry:

It has currently been contracting at a rate of 15% a year as companies relocate to the far east.

There was a plan for special tax relief in the works, but Osborne scrapped it in the budget...

[Blue Peter]

Nobody knows where private sector jobs will come from. We just have to assume they will appear as they have done in the past. I admit I believe things are going to be very tough in the future. Whoever it is pulling the strings wants us all poor.

They don't "want us poor", because, then, we won't vote for them. They want us rich (or at least contented); it's just that they don't have a clue about how to achieve that now, per your first two sentences,

Peter.

[Fudge]

it pays their bills, but it increases bills of rest of nation ...

But if the private sector cannot create enough jobs for everyone and we are told everyone who is able to work must work then

what can a government do?

A tory government will say cut the public sector jobs and cut welfare and just ignore the 4m unemployed as if they arent there.

[Minos]

They don't "want us poor", because, then, we won't vote for them. They want us rich (or at least contented); it's just that they don't have a clue about how to achieve that now, per your first two sentences,

Peter.

Oh yes. Democracy. I forgot about that and so should you.

[D.C.]

Oh dear.

No government support for industry?

That is ok, France, Canada, Singapore and South Korea get the jobs then...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6e111258-83de-11df-ba07-00144feabdc0.html

Computer games industry hits at tax rethink

By Maija Palmer and Tim Bradshaw

Published: June 30 2010 03:00 | Last updated: June 30 2010 03:00

Activision Blizzard, the world's largest video games publisher, said the government's decision to scrap planned tax relief for the sector could threaten the company's intention to invest in the UK.

"For us to continue to invest in the UK there needs to be an incentive provided for us to do so," said Bobby Kotick, chief executive of Activision Blizzard.

"The talent pool in the UK is among the best in the world for what we do. But we really need to see some more incentives. We are seeing great incentives in Canada, Singapore and eastern bloc countries," he said.

The group employs 700 people in the UK, and owns studios in Liverpool and Leamington Spa that have produced titles such as Blur , a racing game, and DJ Hero , a follow-up to its successful Guitar Hero franchise. This week the company joined Tiga, the UK trade body for games developers, which has lobbied for the tax breaks.

Sony Computer Entertainment Europe, which employs more than 1,200 games developers and has three development studios in the UK, also said withdrawal of the promised tax relief could affect its plans.

"The existing plans will continue, but any further new developments would have to be looked at. Maybe something that was planned for the UK would go abroad now," said Ray Maguire, Sony Computer Entertainment's UK managing director.

Mr Maguire said countries such as Malta were considering capitalising on the UK's decision and giving tax incentives to woo games companies.

In Canada, games companies can get tax relief of 30-40 per cent on items such as wages. France recently introduced a 20 per cent tax relief scheme for the industry, following which Ubisoft, the French games publisher, boosted its investment.

The UK has now slipped from 3rd to 5th place as the biggest global computer games developer. According to Tiga, 44 video game businesses, or 15 per cent of the UK total, closed between July 2008 and July 2009, losing about 1,000 jobs.

[Oliver Sutton]

I think New Labour was pro business and didnt tax business and the rich enough during the boom, thats why we had a deficit before the

bank crises hit.

They were up the ärse of big business and banks, no doubt.

Didn't do much for medium and small businesses.

[Fudge]

Nobody knows where private sector jobs will come from. We just have to assume they will appear as they have done in the past. I admit I believe things are going to be very tough in the future. Whoever it is pulling the strings wants us all poor.

Do you not think it would have been cheaper to have the 1.3M on benefits rather than paying for them to do jobs which no tax payer ever required or asked for them to do?

It would be cheaper yes. Depends on the governments priorities. Is it better to have 1.3m working, training learning skills gaining experience

hopefully doing something useful, buying goods and services etc or sitting at home watching Jeremy Kyle and getting involved in crime.

[VeryMeanReversion]

I think there will be 2.5m extra jobs in the private sector easily over the term of this government.

....just not in this country.

[hilltop]

New Labour lost the plot pursuing 'managerialism', believing what the consultants told them.

Libcon are taking us to the brink by imposing Thatcher dogma cuts to public spending while depending on the private sector.

But business and capitalism have continued to fail us. There is no evidence to suggest that they will create the jobs we need.

Even if they do 'create' new activities they sell them off abroad at the first opportunity.

Even a modest opportunity like Forgemasters, requiring some seeding by Government, has failed to get funding.

A vacuum of enterprise, funding and declining revenues and spending will cause unemployment to spiral.

Third World wages are the Government's objective.

Be very afraid.

[Minos]

New Labour lost the plot pursuing 'managerialism', believing what the consultants told them.

Libcon are taking us to the brink by imposing Thatcher dogma cuts to public spending while depending on the private sector.

But business and capitalism have continued to fail us. There is no evidence to suggest that they will create the jobs we need.

Even if they do 'create' new activities they sell them off abroad at the first opportunity.

Even a modest opportunity like Forgemasters, requiring some seeding by Government, has failed to get funding.

A vacuum of enterprise, funding and declining revenues and spending will cause unemployment to spiral.

Third World wages are the Government's objective.

Be very afraid.

I don't know why but I imagined you saying that with a Stephen Hawkin's voice. It makes it sound more macabre.

[OnlyMe]

We need to meet our carbon target.

Shut the ******ing lot down and switch off the light.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/7861409/UK-must-take-radical-action-to-meet-climate-change-targets-watchdog-warns.html

[hilltop]

I don't know why but I imagined you saying that with a Stephen Hawkin's voice. It makes it sound more macabre.

He has a reputation for being right, too.

[D.C.]

Nobody knows where private sector jobs will come from. We just have to assume they will appear as they have done in the past. I admit I believe things are going to be very tough in the future. Whoever it is pulling the strings wants us all poor.

Do you not think it would have been cheaper to have the 1.3M on benefits rather than paying for them to do jobs which no tax payer ever required or asked for them to do?

Minos, I always imagine you as a bloke old enough to have been around in Thatcher's day, (it's the avatar).

How accurate is that assumption and where did you spend the Thatcher years?

In Wales and a good deal of the North, they didn't appear. What happened instead was local economies almost completely collapsed and multi generational welfare dependency was created.

[OnlyMe]

The housing/land bubble hasn't stopped destroying jobs yet.

Any remaining companies will need to look to shift ever more jobs abroad.

Then the housing bubble will be dead for good, together with the long term prospects for the country.

More software services head offshore this year

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2010/06/30/241789/More-software-services-head-offshore-this-year.htm

2e2 to outsource to India

http://www.managementconsultancy.co.uk/computing/news/2265577/2e2-outsource-india

Got to get those carbon footprints down - send the ******ing jobs abroad.

CRC – a bittersweet symphony for outsourcing?

http://www.sourcingfocus.com/index.php/site/featurescomments/1914/

Edited June 30, 2010 by OnlyMe

[scepticus]

In a way this is a good thing. It will answer the question about crowding out, free markets, small government, big government etc etc once and for all.

If george osborne is correct and over the next 5 years we get a net job gain despite the loss of 2m public sector jobs everyone including me is going to have to basically shut up and admit he was right.

however if he was wrong and the deficit starts to expand, national private debt to gdp grown not fallen, as a result of his actions and unemployment has climbed from currently levels year by year then that will be the end of the tories and their free market ideology for the next generation or so.

If you were a betting type, which outcome would stick a hundred quid on, on the nose?

[hilltop]

Sadly, I remember the Thatcher years well.

Old industries disappeared, communities literally fell apart with huge social cost we are still paying for.

The family silver was sold off to the benefit of council house tenants, who were pretty well off anyway because of low rents, and the benefit of the new savvy middle class who bought shares.

The asset value of businesses was understated and perfectly viable manufacturing concerns were bought, broken up and sold. (This was the worst outcome to my mind.)

Cutting infrastructure spending left us with hopeless rail, roads, schools, hospitals. We have only recently made up the lost ground, now it is to be cut again.

People were put out of work and put on incapacity benefit, again we are still coping with that legacy.

But, we kept the Falklands and our retailers did improve.

We had riots, a tented city in Central London and record homelessness.

You decide whether we want that misery again.

[The Masked Tulip]

Been listening to the 600,000 jobs going over 5 years constantly on the news today. It only just struck me that is 120,000 public sector jobs per year - more shocking hen you think of it that way.

That is ssrious HPC time.

[Injin]

In a way this is a good thing. It will answer the question about crowding out, free markets, small government, big government etc etc once and for all.

If george osborne is correct and over the next 5 years we get a net job gain despite the loss of 2m public sector jobs everyone including me is going to have to basically shut up and admit he was right.

however if he was wrong and the deficit starts to expand, national private debt to gdp grown not fallen, as a result of his actions and unemployment has climbed from currently levels year by year then that will be the end of the tories and their free market ideology for the next generation or so.

If you were a betting type, which outcome would stick a hundred quid on, on the nose?

Collapsing on it's ****.

People don't just invent the enlightenment, then understand the basics of markets and economics out of the fricking blue.

Said it before, i'll say it again - tame humans are being shoved into the wild so that the predator types that usually vote tory can go hunting.

[The Masked Tulip]

Sadly, I remember the Thatcher years well.

Old industries disappeared, communities literally fell apart with huge social cost we are still paying for.

The family silver was sold off to the benefit of council house tenants, who were pretty well off anyway because of low rents, and the benefit of the new savvy middle class who bought shares.

The asset value of businesses was understated and perfectly viable manufacturing concerns were bought, broken up and sold. (This was the worst outcome to my mind.)

Cutting infrastructure spending left us with hopeless rail, roads, schools, hospitals. We have only recently made up the lost ground, now it is to be cut again.

People were put out of work and put on incapacity benefit, again we are still coping with that legacy.

But, we kept the Falklands and our retailers did improve.

We had riots, a tented city in Central London and record homelessness.

You decide whether we want that misery again.

I don't think they are going to give us a choice alas.

[Snugglybear]

You decide whether we want that misery again.

Sadly I don't think we can decide anything of the sort. Not without a seismic shift in politics, anyway, and I don't mean party politics.