"collapse" - Anyone Else Seen It?

[Darkman]

I just watched Collapse for the first time. It's subjects are totally relevant to this site, including mortgage debt, the financial pyramid scheme, peak oil etc.

I found it fascinating, and would definately recommend it. Whether you dismiss it as a tinfoil hat movie, or agree with it's premise, you should see it regardless.

From the acclaimed director of American Movie, this portrait of radical thinker Michael Ruppert explores his apocalyptic vision of the future, spanning the crises in economics, energy, environment and more.

A documentary on Michael Ruppert, a police officer turned independent reporter who predicted the current financial crisis in his self-published newsletter, From the Wilderness

Overall it's disturbing. And more so because factually it's believable and appears accurate.

So has anyone seen it?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1503769/

[Guest_chris c-t_*]

I just watched Collapse for the first time. It's subjects are totally relevant to this site, including mortgage debt, the financial pyramid scheme, peak oil etc.

I found it fascinating, and would definately recommend it. Whether you dismiss it as a tinfoil hat movie, or agree with it's premise, you should see it regardless.

Overall it's disturbing. And more so because factually it's believable and appears accurate.

So has anyone seen it?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1503769/

yep. watched it about a year (EDIT: 6m) ago.

The guy's definitely one hell of a chain smoker. I thought the film ended quite sadly and it upset me a bit, but life's like that, ain't it?

I believe quite a lot of his story could be true. The pieces all fit together, for sure.

ONE OF MY FAVOURITE QUOTES OF ALL TIME from the film:

"if you are in a camp and a bear attacks, you don't have to be faster than the bear, you only have to be faster than the slowest camper!"

see here for comments:

http://www.greenener...8281&hl=ruppert

http://www.greenener...ndpost&p=150737

and other stuff: - including comments on the BP spill and a book he published this year..

http://www.greenener...9018&hl=ruppert

http://www.greenener...ndpost&p=153609

Here is a link to a link to a talk given by Rupert:

http://www.greenener...ndpost&p=141385

Edited June 20, 2010 by chris c-t

[Confounded]

yep. watched it about a year ago.

The guy's definitely one hell of a chain smoker. I thought the film ended quite sadly and it upset me a bit, but life's like that, ain't it?

I believe quite a lot of his story could be true. The pieces all fit together, for sure.

Agree with your take on it, very plausible but a sad ending.

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Good interview with him

Film dvd purchase / rental

Edited June 20, 2010 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Guest Skinty]

Haven't seen the film but it all seems to concur with what I understand

This is a good book on the subject

Long emergency

Looks like collapse is also in book form now

Confronting Collapse: The Crisis of Energy & Money in a Post Peak Oil World

Edited June 20, 2010 by Skinty

[chris25]

Where can I view this/download it? Itunes doesnt work

[Johnny Storm]

Agree with your take on it, very plausible but a sad ending.

Having a convincing story that people want to believe doesnt make you right or make you money.

Ask Realistbear.

[StainlessSteelCat]

Jared Diamond's book - also called Collapse - is also well worth a read for an historical insight into why societies collapse.

[Guest Skinty]

Jared Diamond's book - also called Collapse - is also well worth a read for an historical insight into why societies collapse.

That's on my wish list to buy next. Glad to hear someone recommend it.

[Darkman]

Where can I view this/download it? Itunes doesnt work

It didn't take me long to find it. Just look harder.

Having a convincing story that people want to believe doesnt make you right or make you money.

No it doesn't, but there's a fair chance he is. Just because a collapse seems so unimaginable doesn't make it unrealistic. Events are now taking place which do point to him being accurate.

I wonder if anyone has taken action after seeing this? If true it's a real game changer. A doubt I have is the time frame. He mentions 20 years being "hard and fast" to make the full adjustment, or it could be longer at 50 years. We may escape the worst of it purely due to our age if the decline in oil isn't dramatic. Or we could hit worst because we'll be aging when we need our youthful energy the most

[Errol]

Looks like collapse is also in book form now

Confronting Collapse: The Crisis of Energy & Money in a Post Peak Oil World

This is a good read. Some interesting points/arguments. Good value at the price, I'd say.

[right_freds_dead]

Where can I view this/download it? Itunes doesnt work

i can only find the first 3 sections of it.

[pl1]

Should find a wide audience on this forum.

[zceb90]

I just watched Collapse for the first time. It's subjects are totally relevant to this site, including mortgage debt, the financial pyramid scheme, peak oil etc. ......

So has anyone seen it?

I've not seen it yet but it's 'on my list'; it's not yet listed by mainstream DVD suppliers in UK but I've just found a source on e-bay at reasonable cost (if anyone knows of good source without the hassle and expense of importing this DVD please indicate on this thread). It's R1 (US/Canada) only btw but I can cope with that.

I've seen a DVD along similar lines called 'End of Suburbia' and based on the reviews I've read for 'Collapse' much of the scenario is all too possible. I was at a half day conference re Energy and Climate Change at Aberdeen Uni earlier this month and one of the speakers (European editor of The OilDrum) showed a slide indicating that UK energy imports have amounted to $8,000 for every UK citizen in the past 5 years. Based on ongoing N Sea oil and gas output declines there is every reason to believe that, even at current energy prices, foreign currency cost of energy imports for the UK will more or less double in the next 5 years. That would make a $1.5 trillion foreign currency cost for UK in just the 10 years up to 2015 - I keep wondering just how long the markets will let this situation continue given that UK is also importing food, electronic goods etc in a major way....and tourism is also reported to have a major currency outflow.

Even if the global scenario depicted by this film turns out to be too pessimistic the UK situation from an energy and economic point of view looks dire. Buyers of houses expecting to borrow heavily should beware....especially if location requires long commute using current widespread practice of single occupancy vehicle.

[Darkman]

I think it's been obvious for a while what's behind the global warming push for renewable energy.

Whether GW actually exists or not doesn't actually matter (so I won't bother arguing it out). What matters is that we are about to run out of our primary energy source, and we are totally reliant on it. This is a slow motion epic disaster, but if Govt. can hide the scary truth behind an environmental smokescreen they may avoid panic and war.

In reality, global warming from oil use is now irrelevant. There won't be any oil. Therefore the problem is solved naturally. But what we face instead of the GW facade is far far worse.

[Johnny Storm]

In reality, global warming from oil use is now irrelevant. There won't be any oil. Therefore the problem is solved naturally. But what we face instead of the GW facade is far far worse.

The real distaster is nothing to do with peak oil, but too many people using the oil too quickly. The correct answer would have been to limit population growth the same way China has. Worrying about plastic bags and recycling your empty bottles is going to make no difference what so ever.

[Basil Nuriyev]

Thanks to Repikkoorb in Eight parts

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=WDYa3eT0eVw

http://www.youtube.c...y6FJPRXcPA&NR=1

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[Executive Sadman]

In reality, global warming from oil use is now irrelevant. There won't be any oil. Therefore the problem is solved naturally. But what we face instead of the GW facade is far far worse.

According to Tony Juniper (green party leader) theres 500 years worth of supply in shales in Canada (which i thought was either not economically viable at under $250 a barrel or else requires more energy to extract it) thats going to turn our planet into venus.

Its unfounded crap like this which makes Brighton the only place in the country to vote green.

[Johnny Storm]

Rewatched the film today, its interesting. But did you notice the bit where someone said, but didnt someone predict peak oil in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s.

Its a bit like Realistbear's predictions. One day he will get one right.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Johnny Storm

[corevalue]

According to Tony Juniper (green party leader) theres 500 years worth of supply in shales in Canada (which i thought was either not economically viable at under $250 a barrel or else requires more energy to extract it) thats going to turn our planet into venus.

Its unfounded crap like this which makes Brighton the only place in the country to vote green.

Coal is more likely to cause the damage.

[Darkman]

The real distaster is nothing to do with peak oil, but too many people using the oil too quickly.

No. Peak oil is obviously half of the equation, and therefore half of the disaster.

Use of the oil is the other half.

Population control would do the world a huge favour, and buy time to adapt. But in itself doesn't solve the problem of declining resources.

[xux42]

The real distaster is nothing to do with peak oil, but too many people using the oil too quickly. The correct answer would have been to limit population growth the same way China has. Worrying about plastic bags and recycling your empty bottles is going to make no difference what so ever.

Very true, but even then it wouldn't have worked in the long run. This current civilisation will self-destruct eventually whatever the truth is about, and irrespective of oil supply. If energy supply is re-balanced humanity will find another way to fail. It happens so relentlessly you almost have to wonder if its necessary.

Jared's book nails it. Cold analysis of real cases so can't be dismissed it as sensationalism. (Most) people would dismiss it though, they have this strange tendency to confuse deeply unpalatable with unlikely , and most definitely reject scenarios which they personally will not survive.

For illustration of the typical person's perceptions consider redundancy - try raising the possibility of a redundancy programme with someone who would definitely go and who definitely does not want to. Initially dismissiveness quickly turns to anger if pressed and they vehemently deny the possibility. Exactly the same with a FTB or BTL who bought in 2007.

I won't be starting either of those conversations again....

Our civilisation has moved away from innovation, primary production and no longer has readily available resources. Its going to collapse. Its normal. Another will rise. Hey ho.

We don't know when though, so why not enjoy life in the mean time...

[Tiger Woods?]

Rewatched the film today, its interesting. But did you notice the bit where someone said, but didnt someone predict peak oil in the 70s and the 80s and the 90s.

Its a bit like Realistbear's predictions. One day he will get one right.

US oil peaked in the mid 70s. It was the first confirmation of Hubert's theory. I can remember reading a poster in my primary school that was a couple of years old in about 1977 which stated that world oil would start to run out (i.e. peak) in 35 years. That is about now. The 2005 to 2010 prediction has been around for a long time.

[zceb90]

US oil peaked in the mid 70s. It was the first confirmation of Hubert's theory. I can remember reading a poster in my primary school that was a couple of years old in about 1977 which stated that world oil would start to run out (i.e. peak) in 35 years. That is about now. The 2005 to 2010 prediction has been around for a long time.

Discovery trends provide a good insight into future production trends as one cannot produce oil that has not first been discovered. US discovery peak in 1930 was followed, after a timelag of 4 decades, by a production peak in 1971. Offshore locations show a similar trend but with a shorter timelag between peak discovery and peak production due to much higher cost regime requiring much faster ramping up of operations to recover costs quickly - UK discovery peak in 1973 was followed by production peak in 1999 i.e. a 26 year timelag.

With regard to global trends, peak discovery year was 1964 and an increasing number of analysts are pointing to production peak in either 2005 or 2008 (max volumes produced was very similar and we have more or less been on a 'plateau' for the past 5 years). Actual peak won't be known for some years after the event and, given recent events, it may be due to economic and other factors rather than purely geological factors. The oil is, in theory, available but the marginal cost per barrel is now thought by many to exceed what most economies are prepared to stand, not to mention the risks associated with operations in 'frontier areas' given that most of the 'easy oil' is now gone; the ongoing major indicent in GOM aptly demonstrates the risk of operating in deepwater regions....and polar regions etc incur similar risks.

[neil324]

'If your in a camp and a bear attacks you don't have to be faster than the bear, only faster than the slowest camper'