Unite Stuck Up A Tree Without A Ladder

[billfunk]

Unions do exist for the lower-paid.

However it can be difficult for unions in the private sector as the attitude there tends to be "if you don't like it, f**k off". So people do that rather than standing together and fighting.

This leads to the decline in pay and conditions. Which is, unfortunately, where you found yourself.

It will change as we get further into this depression. The folks on here are far too blinkered to notice what's going on or too selfish to give a flying about anyone else though.

Funny you should say this as when I worked for a well known red bookmaker I used to try and get people to join the union "Community". In my opinion, management would not listen to me or any of the other workers. Members of staff would constantly moan about management bullying and not being listened to.

Funny thing was, very few of the workers wanted to join the union because it cost about 1 or 2 quid a week. Unfortunately, the workers were largely thick as pig shit, apathetic and individualistic. One day a Community Rep. came to the store and i told her that she would never get her union recognised because the workers were of the same mindset as the managers, ie. they wanted as much money as possible. The main difference between the staff and the management was that the staff were on the whole, as I have said, thick as pig shit.

I left thinking that the ignorant selfish staff and the bullying selfish management were made for each other.

However, it also left me feeling that the Union was also obsessed by money. I wondered if there were any proper socialists banging around who would put themselves out for other people without being paid a subscription.

I've got nothing against sensible rational socialists but I think there are a lot of people around today calling themselves socialists who are nothing of the sort. That's what pisses me off - duplicitous liers.

The problem I have with some members of this site is that they are defending charletans-parading-as-socialists.

In my mind Unions were invented to prevent 8 year olds being forced down t'pit, stopping workers getting mangled to death by dangerous machinery, trying to make it so that workers didn't die aged 35 of sheer exhaustion and overwork - that kind of thing.

Not striking about cuts in the middle of a recession - THE SHAME!

[winkie]

Incorrect and ill-informed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8556487.stm

Disagree....all smoke and mirrors, the devil is in the detail.

[Guest absolutezero]

Funny you should say this as when I worked for a well known red bookmaker I used to try and get people to join the union "Community". In my opinion, management would not listen to me or any of the other workers. Members of staff would constantly moan about management bullying and not being listened to.

Funny thing was, very few of the workers wanted to join the union because it cost about 1 or 2 quid a week. Unfortunately, the workers were largely thick as pig shit, apathetic and individualistic. One day a Community Rep. came to the store and i told her that she would never get her union recognised because the workers were of the same mindset as the managers, ie. they wanted as much money as possible. The main difference between the staff and the management was that the staff were on the whole, as I have said, thick as pig shit.

I left thinking that the ignorant selfish staff and the bullying selfish management were made for each other.

However, it also left me feeling that the Union was also obsessed by money. I wondered if there were any proper socialists banging around who would put themselves out for other people without being paid a subscription.

I've got nothing against sensible rational socialists but I think there are a lot of people around today calling themselves socialists who are nothing of the sort. That's what pisses me off - duplicitous liers.

The problem I have with some members of this site is that they are defending charletans-parading-as-socialists.

In my mind Unions were invented to prevent 8 year olds being forced down t'pit, stopping workers getting mangled to death by dangerous machinery, trying to make it so that workers didn't die aged 35 of sheer exhaustion and overwork - that kind of thing.

Not striking about cuts in the middle of a recession - THE SHAME!

It's about making sure the bosses don't take the pi*s out of the workers. Doesn't matter when it is.

If the bosses are willing to cut back and sack themselves there's no problem. But no. It's only the people at the bottom that get crapped on.

From my experience the managers are just as thick as the workers.

It's just that people are scared of the bosses because they perceive the management as having "power".

They don't.

They're just people in suits.

Band together and they realise they have no power at all.

The other problem unions have is, as you have said, a lot of people are out for themselves and provided things are going well they don't need any support because "I'm alright Jack".

Since we've just had a boom people are used to thinking things are ok.

When things go bad people tend to get together. Which they will.

[Guest absolutezero]

Disagree....all smoke and mirrors, the devil is in the detail.

Then share the devil with us.

[Goat]

Unions do exist for the lower-paid.

However it can be difficult for unions in the private sector as the attitude there tends to be "if you don't like it, f**k off". So people do that rather than standing together and fighting.

This leads to the decline in pay and conditions. Which is, unfortunately, where you found yourself.

Difficult to stand and fight when the bosses can simply say "here's your P45, now f*** off".

Even if you could stand and fight you'd quickly find that the company's closed down its uk operations and is now trading out of India etc.

[winkie]

Then share the devil with us.

Read your link......the bonus does not cover the lost wages, the annual pay increase does not cover inflation and there will still be job losses due to improved mechanisation....

[Guest absolutezero]

Difficult to stand and fight when the bosses can simply say "here's your P45, now f*** off".

I do love an unfair dismissal and employment tribunal.

Done a couple of those.

Even if you could stand and fight you'd quickly find that the company's closed down its uk operations and is now trading out of India etc.

Typical defeatist, private sector attitude.

[Guest absolutezero]

Read your link......the bonus does not cover the lost wages, the annual pay increase does not cover inflation and there will still be job losses due to improved mechanisation....

Short termism strikes again on HPC.

And had they bent over and accepted it?

[erranta]

I guess this load of useless individuals are smart enough to realise they're next on the list of efficiency cutbacks and crapping themselves.

Dublin boy Walsh did similar when he was running Irish Airlines.

He hacked it about to make it look good for a privatisation sell-off to the markets which he then proposed to the Irish Govt.

The Irish Govt told him to FECK-OFF! He resigned & left straight after in a huff!

Then 'reappears' in Blitish Airways management soon after.

He's a stooge playing a game and antagonising the unions purely for self enrichment! (He and his management team would personally have made ££Millions££ after an Irish Airlines sell off!)

I hope someone from Blitish Airways reads this & does the research on "THE FACTS" and get him kicked out fast!

Edited March 26, 2010 by erranta

[billfunk]

It's about making sure the bosses don't take the pi*s out of the workers. Doesn't matter when it is.

If the bosses are willing to cut back and sack themselves there's no problem. But no. It's only the people at the bottom that get crapped on.

From my experience the managers are just as thick as the workers.

It's just that people are scared of the bosses because they perceive the management as having "power".

They don't.

They're just people in suits.

Band together and they realise they have no power at all.

The other problem unions have is, as you have said, a lot of people are out for themselves and provided things are going well they don't need any support because "I'm alright Jack".

Since we've just had a boom people are used to thinking things are ok.

When things go bad people tend to get together. Which they will.

I wouldn't really agree or disagree with what your saying - I think though that by your tone we are coming at this from different angles.

My main issue with the well known red bookmakers was that they were owned by shareholders. Most of the management were shareholders, whilst most of the staff were not, and the ones that were only had very small holdings (naturally). Workers' rights - basically pay - had been gradually eroded over a period of years so as to maintain the payment of a dividend on a share that had underperformed the market for the past 10 years (?). In this instance, I did see the situation as being adversarial which was why I tried the union option.

If the management could have grown the company properly without the need to bribe investors with a dividend and allowed the ordinary workers to share more of this growth then I would have been happier. I never expected to be a millionaire from working in a bookies but nor did I expect to be treated like a thick piece of till scum. Every year the wage would climb by just enough to keep it a couple of percent above NMW so that they could say they paid above NMW or something. The whole company seemed to exist to pay off investors - full of liers.

Really the management weren't evil or dangerous just greedy (aren't we all) and inept. Meh.

[geoffk]

I feel like a lot of the unions in operation today look after the interests of workers earning average wages (20K - 35K type).

I have worked in a warehouse order picking for a month - no union; a bookmakers whilst a student - no union; various shitty "appointment making" jobs as student - no apparent union.

It's wonderful that all these rail workers, trolley-dolleys, bin-men on 20K+ have their employment rights protected but where are the socialists to defend the rights of people earning close to NMW?

Could anyone throw any light on this issue?

yes.... get off your fat lazy **** and join a union on your own then get other workers to join. it really is that simple.. or do you need that **** wiping..

[billfunk]

yes.... get off your fat lazy **** and join a union on your own then get other workers to join. it really is that simple.. or do you need that **** wiping..

Thankyou for your reply. Post 26?

P.S. I no longer work in any of the jobs listed.

[geoffk]

Funny you should say this as when I worked for a well known red bookmaker I used to try and get people to join the union "Community". In my opinion, management would not listen to me or any of the other workers. Members of staff would constantly moan about management bullying and not being listened to.

Funny thing was, very few of the workers wanted to join the union because it cost about 1 or 2 quid a week. Unfortunately, the workers were largely thick as pig shit, apathetic and individualistic. One day a Community Rep. came to the store and i told her that she would never get her union recognised because the workers were of the same mindset as the managers, ie. they wanted as much money as possible. The main difference between the staff and the management was that the staff were on the whole, as I have said, thick as pig shit.

I left thinking that the ignorant selfish staff and the bullying selfish management were made for each other.

However, it also left me feeling that the Union was also obsessed by money. I wondered if there were any proper socialists banging around who would put themselves out for other people without being paid a subscription.

I've got nothing against sensible rational socialists but I think there are a lot of people around today calling themselves socialists who are nothing of the sort. That's what pisses me off - duplicitous liers.

The problem I have with some members of this site is that they are defending charletans-parading-as-socialists.

In my mind Unions were invented to prevent 8 year olds being forced down t'pit, stopping workers getting mangled to death by dangerous machinery, trying to make it so that workers didn't die aged 35 of sheer exhaustion and overwork - that kind of thing.

Not striking about cuts in the middle of a recession - THE SHAME!

HA HA HA...

Today those workers and managers who work for the red one have just found out what happens when you have no one to fight your corner for you....All of them have just today been told that they are to lose the bonus they get every year because they have met all targets but ladbrooks have decided they do not want to pay it......

..500 pounds per person....they are very very unhappy....

i told them well that's what your employer thinks about you.........treat them the same..

[Goat]

I do love an unfair dismissal and employment tribunal.

Done a couple of those.

Really, I thought you were a teacher not a union employee.

Have you just let slip something you didn't mean to?

Typical defeatist, private sector attitude.

Damn those private sector folks and their acceptance of reality, much better to live in a world where the laws of economics don't apply.

[Guest absolutezero]

Really, I thought you were a teacher not a union employee.

Have you just let slip something you didn't mean to?

Local officer as well.

Damn those private sector folks and their acceptance of reality, much better to live in a world where the laws of economics don't apply.

Isn't it just?

By the way, there are no laws of economics. Just ideas.

[billfunk]

Thankyou for your reply. Post 26?

P.S. I no longer work in any of the jobs listed.

Sorry, just to clarify there may have been unions but none were recognised, and the unions themselves would not give much assistance without first having a large number of subscriptions. Staff turnover was always fast enough to prevent a rise in subscriptions (and thickaspigshitedness).

I agree with what you're saying - I personally spoke to around 30 people in various offices out of a total of 7,000 nationally perhaps.

[winkie]

I used to belong to an union when they were smaller and more specialised, personnel and really cared...now imo they are too big, have their fingers in too many pies and not worth the monthly DD.

[geoffk]

Difficult to stand and fight when the bosses can simply say "here's your P45, now f*** off".

Even if you could stand and fight you'd quickly find that the company's closed down its uk operations and is now trading out of India etc.

I find occupation gets results....i was involved in one many years ago and it worked well...

[geoffk]

I used to belong to an union when they were smaller and more specialised, personnel and really cared...now imo they are too big, have their fingers in too many pies and not worth the monthly DD.

The small monthly payment is worth the legal protection you get..... free solicitor advice ect ect..

[winkie]

The small monthly payment is worth the legal protection you get..... free solicitor advice ect ect..

You can get free legal advice and protection in other ways....anyway have you used their services? or are have you been sold something that you will probably never use or could obtain for less elsewhere.

Edit spelling...I am not an english teacher for obvious reasons.

Edited March 26, 2010 by winkie

[billfunk]

I find occupation gets results....i was involved in one many years ago and it worked well...

If rational debate fails I tend to opt for violence.

[geoffk]

You can get free legal advise and protection in other ways....anyway have you used their services? or are have you been sold something that you will probably never use or could obtain for less elsewhere.

Edit spelling...I am not an english teacher for obvious reasons.

yes i have used them. great value for me and they never charged me a penny...

[geoffk]

If rational debate fails I tend to opt for violence.

I think you will find that violence does not come into it...peaceful occupation is normal but produces very good results...rational debate has ended when we get to that stage..

[winkie]

yes i have used them. great value for me and they never charged me a penny...

Out of interest...how much do you pay a month for this free service?

[billfunk]

I think you will find that violence does not come into it...peaceful occupation is normal but produces very good results...rational debate has ended when we get to that stage..

How do you go about occupying a national chain of bookies with 2500 offices when you earn NMW and have no support?