The Hypocricy Of Those Criticising Strikes

[pootle]

Businesses can collude to create a de facto cartel surrounding remuneration for many types of job, but the collusion of workers to fight for their best interests is condemned.

You know, you could turn this around

Anyway, there is nothing wrong in principle with a strike - those who criticise strikes based on principle are wrong. However, not all strikes are created equal in the same way that not all businesses are heartless, exploitative corporations. Some strikes are justified and some are plain wrong.

The fallacy lies in ideology.

[miko]

We are arguing the difference between a legal right and a contractual right.

The contract you have with your employer will state the number of paid days holiday you are entitled to each year. The state backs that up with a legal requirement for your contract to include a minimum number of days holiday per year.

No where in your contract have you agreed with your employer that you will walk out when you feel like it, however I think you should have a LEGAL right to do so if you feel you are being unfairly treated.

Your employer should have the right to sack you, because you are effectively saying you have had enough and are throwing down your tools. If they can't find anyone else to do the job for the same wage then they will be forced to offer you more money.. which was what you wanted. If they can find someone to do it for less then you lose your job. But that should be ok as you didn't really want it anyway because it doesn't pay you as much as you want.

not a right then !!

[Guest KingCharles1st]

It's been supplied in the form of credit.

Now the credit has been turned off, the strikes will begin and fair enough.

yep- we're finally where (as predicted on HPC) we would have been 12 months go without Government trickery and QE.

[Potwalloper]

You know, you could turn this around

I thought of suggesting that!

No point in condemning the strike. I will laugh when all of these pseudo state monopolies collapse under the weight of their own stupidity though. That's the funny bit. The rest is just posing and ideology as you suggest, and will be forgotten about when they're all gone.

[Injin]

Strikes are not a negotiation if they are demanding to return to work. Under your, admittedly ill-considered, philosphy they should have the right to refuse what monetary figure someone offers them for their labour. They do not then have a right to forcibly carry on doing work for that person at whatever figure they have been paid in the past.

If you don't like the mind numbing boredom of your job, then leave.

If you don't like the lifestyle the remuneration supports, then leave.

If you don't like the way the boss treats you, then leave.

The fact you have a large mortgage to pay, voted in a tax hungry government and have a family to support, isn't really your employer's fault.

Striking is leaving.

[miko]

Strikes are not a negotiation if they are demanding to return to work. Under your, admittedly ill-considered, philosphy they should have the right to refuse what monetary figure someone offers them for their labour. They do not then have a right to forcibly carry on doing work for that person at whatever figure they have been paid in the past.

If you don't like the mind numbing boredom of your job, then leave.

If you don't like the lifestyle the remuneration supports, then leave.

If you don't like the way the boss treats you, then leave.

The fact you have a large mortgage to pay, voted in a tax hungry government and have a family to support, isn't really your employer's fault.

Thank god the dockers, the miners , the factory hands , the transport workers just after the war , went on strike and did not just leave , as they got many of the rights that we all take for granted today . If they had all just left we would still be working with a hunger in our stomacks as the pay and conditions would be like it was back then.

[Guest KingCharles1st]

Although harsh, I agree.

Not because I don't wish that person well, but because they are complaining about a job that another person might really want to have.

If you don't want to do your job anymore, leave, for everyone's sake. There are lots of graduates coming out of uni now that would be glad of a chance to get some experience.

Hhmmmm.

That thinking and approach taken to logical conclusion will have thousands of 25 year old "Seen the world Club Tropicana Stylee" graduates, with stull no experience on the real world. Meanwhile overall average labour rates will be artificially and irreversably suppressed, but to suit WHO exactly...?

[LiveAndLetBuy]

Strikes are not a negotiation if they are demanding to return to work. Under your, admittedly ill-considered, philosphy they should have the right to refuse what monetary figure someone offers them for their labour. They do not then have a right to forcibly carry on doing work for that person at whatever figure they have been paid in the past.

If you don't like the mind numbing boredom of your job, then leave.

If you don't like the lifestyle the remuneration supports, then leave.

If you don't like the way the boss treats you, then leave.

The fact you have a large mortgage to pay, voted in a tax hungry government and have a family to support, isn't really your employer's fault.

Precisely. The whole point of opening up the air travel market was to provide some kind of choice - both for passengers and those who work in the airline industry. If BA air crew don't like earning 40k then they can go and earn 14k with Easyjet or Virgin. Destroying their employer ain't going to get them very far.

[Guest absolutezero]

Strikes are not a negotiation if they are demanding to return to work. Under your, admittedly ill-considered, philosphy they should have the right to refuse what monetary figure someone offers them for their labour. They do not then have a right to forcibly carry on doing work for that person at whatever figure they have been paid in the past.

If you don't like the mind numbing boredom of your job, then leave.

If you don't like the lifestyle the remuneration supports, then leave.

If you don't like the way the boss treats you, then leave.

The fact you have a large mortgage to pay, voted in a tax hungry government and have a family to support, isn't really your employer's fault.

Spoken like an employer.

[Guest absolutezero]

Thank god the dockers, the miners , the factory hands , the transport workers just after the war , went on strike and did not just leave , as they got many of the rights that we all take for granted today . If they had all just left we would still be working with a hunger in our stomacks as the pay and conditions would be like it was back then.

Which is exactly what the bosses and Tories on here would cream themselves over.

[LiveAndLetBuy]

Thank god the dockers, the miners , the factory hands , the transport workers just after the war , went on strike and did not just leave , as they got many of the rights that we all take for granted today . If they had all just left we would still be working with a hunger in our stomacks as the pay and conditions would be like it was back then.

They didn't have anywhere to leave to.

[Potwalloper]

Spoken like an employer.

Spoken like an uninvolved tyre kicker

[Guest absolutezero]

Spoken like an uninvolved tyre kicker

Or one who has seen through the employment scam 30 years too early.

[bogbrush]

Or one who has seen through the employment scam 30 years too early.

I didn't know you were self-employed.

[The Pale Rider]

Lots of comments have been deleted from this thread....censorship or info control?

[Guest absolutezero]

Lots of comments have been deleted from this thread....censorship or info control?

Or paranoia?

[miko]

They didn't have anywhere to leave to.

Nor have most workers today ,

Irrelavant thought as the point is just lost on muppets like you.

Were you born with a silver spoon in your gob ? if yes i can understand how you would hate the working classes if no then you have benefited form the strikers back then.

[Guest absolutezero]

Nor have most workers today ,

Irrelavant thought as the point is just lost on muppets like you.

Were you born with a silver spoon in your gob ? if yes i can understand how you would hate the working classes if no then you have benefited form the strikers back then.

Don't be daft.

All the rabid Tories on here are 100% bombproof and nothing bad will ever happen to them. And even if it did they're be fine because they have such a valuable set of transferable skills and they are wonderful.

[libspero]

Hhmmmm.

That thinking and approach taken to logical conclusion will have thousands of 25 year old "Seen the world Club Tropicana Stylee" graduates, with stull no experience on the real world. Meanwhile overall average labour rates will be artificially and irreversably suppressed, but to suit WHO exactly...?

Not sure I agree with that.. you have just trained up people who wanted a job. This might have expanded the recruitment pool for your sector putting downwards pressure on wages, but you have paid for that by way of trainng costs.. I would consider it a return on investment rather than artificially distorting the market.

[bomberbrown]

I dont criticise their right to strike, i just question their wisdom given the finances of BA, esp given volatile fuel prices and the wider economy. If i were travelling right now id save myself the hassle and ensure i didnt go with BA, i suspect many travellers would do the same.

I'm in total agreement with the bit in bold. Our (staffing) budget has been cut by 5%, and another 5% is wideley expected. Management have stressed that they want to achieve this wih natural staff wastage (i.e. we all work a little bit harder to make up the shortfall of staff) but if we don't get the 10% natural wastage, I would easily take a 10% cut in my salary, as I would hope my fellow workers would. Better to have 90% of a wage than 100% of nothing.

That said though, I'm in the fortunate position of not having stretched myself to a 7x salary mortgage for a 1 bedroomed slave box.....sadly, I don't think some of my fellow coleagues are in the same position.

[huw]

No. It would just mean you having a legal right to walk out of your job if you didn't agree with the pay or conditions of employment.

If it meant that the company couldn't fire you for doing it, you

a ) wouldn't have to work again ever and the company would have to keep paying you.

b ) could force the company into bankruptcy despite them having an otherwise viable business model.

Striking workers don't get pay, if they did then no strike would ever be broken and no-one would ever need to be a scab and cross a picket line.

Unions used to do strike pay at whatever level they could afford (not sure if they still do; all the palaver about sequestrating the miners' funds in the early 80s was surely to destroy their strike-pay capacity).

The right-to-strike amounts to the right not to be fired for striking, otherwise it would be known as the right-to-quit

[libspero]

The right-to-strike amounts to the right not to be fired for striking, otherwise it would be known as the right-to-quit

Fair enough.. our definitions are quite different then.

I don't see why there should be any imposed contractual obligation on companies not to fire people who break their usual contract of employment so they can complain they are not paid enough.

I realise it may not be a popular view, but I don't see why the law should help employees hold employers to ransom.

[LiveAndLetBuy]

Nor have most workers today ,

Irrelavant thought as the point is just lost on muppets like you.

Were you born with a silver spoon in your gob ? if yes i can understand how you would hate the working classes if no then you have benefited form the strikers back then.

Why did you think I hate the working classes?

Why do you think I was criticizing the strikers back then?

[SNACR]

Thank god the dockers, the miners , the factory hands , the transport workers just after the war , went on strike and did not just leave , as they got many of the rights that we all take for granted today . If they had all just left we would still be working with a hunger in our stomacks as the pay and conditions would be like it was back then.

Yep, these poor BA cabin crew they're just modern day Jarrow marchers. I don't know how I couldn't see that.

[miko]

Yep, these poor BA cabin crew they're just modern day Jarrow marchers. I don't know how I couldn't see that.

What you don't see is that if people never striked we would all still be working for peanuts including those of your clientel . Thus you would have no business . If no one ever went on strike today whether others agree with them or not , workers would soon be back to earning peanuts , or are you to stupid to see that .