Why Was The Bailout Good For Me?

[this_prisoner_is_opting_out]

Maybe not, but Men with a house and money get a much nicer looking chick than men who live in bedsits and play computer games all day.

True. I'm also going to put on the list of unattractive features:

i) being unable to differentiate between "your" and "you're"

ii) threatening women

iii) generally being a bit thick

Although tbf it's always a laugh when a self-proclaimed genius IT/engineering grad tries to fight.

Dan poppet - I'm afraid your stock is tumbling... you haven't had a girlfriend for 9 years which doesn't make you a "great catch" - it makes you weird and creepy. Stop blaming women/house prices for your social ineptitude.

Edited February 7, 2010 by this_prisoner_is_opting_out

[88Crash]

Its not a nice feeling knowing that you're politically isolated and going to be treated as a slave fo the rest of your days under a system that everyone readiy defends, but whats a guy supposed to do?

One suggestion....Leave the UK!!!!

Not with a ‘grass is greener’ attitude, simply calculate your potential future in UK and NOT just money, I’d advise you throw in a few quality of life considerations and then make a choice

Also because a move to another country should be a long term decision, you need to balance that with how you think the UK will be for you in say, the next 10 or 20 years

IMO, quality of life in UK it is unlikely to improve, more likely will get worse in many areas that affect day to day quality of life and for sure the weather will still be cra*p

[Bloo Loo]

Maybe not, but Men with a house and money get a much nicer looking chick than men who live in bedsits and play computer games all day.

and they dont smell of socks and their fingernails are clean.

[Milton]

True. I'm also going to put on the list of unattractive features:

i) being unable to differentiate between "your" and "you're"

ii) threatening women

iii) generally being a bit thick

Although tbf it's always a laugh when a self-proclaimed genius IT/engineering grad tries to fight.

Dan poppet - I'm afraid your stock is tumbling... you haven't had a girlfriend for 9 years which doesn't make you a "great catch" - it makes you weird and creepy. Stop blaming women/house prices for your social ineptitude.

I suppose Im meant to bite here?

I posted this quite late, as I have had enough of the ways things are going at the moment.

Wasnt particularly well thought through.

As you well know I did not know you were a woman. You know this. So I can only assume you are on the wind up. Note you are the only one who has responded in such a negative fashion. For no apparent reason.

I dont remember proclaiming I was a genius.

Ended with the last GF about 3 years ago.

Go find another discussion.......... :0) Ok?

Edited February 7, 2010 by Dan1

[Milton]

and they dont smell of socks and their fingernails are clean.

My fingernails are clean, I dont live in a bedsit, I dont smell of socks, I do occasionally play on a pc game.....

Edited February 7, 2010 by Dan1

[Bloo Loo]

My fingernails are clean, I dont live in a bedsit, I dont smell of socks, I do occasionally play on a pc game.....

suggest you pop your knob in your fly when out shopping then:o.

Q.Whats pink and wrinkly and hangs out your trousers??

A. Your mum doing your washing.

[Milton]

suggest you pop your knob in your fly when out shopping then:o.

Q.Whats pink and wrinkly and hangs out your trousers??

A. Your mum doing your washing.

Stop fantasising about my Nob Bloo.

[mightytharg]

It made nothing better. It was good for nobody.

It's not all bad news. I'm in the middle of a tour of South-East Asia, thanks to your generosity.

(still against the bailouts though - I wrote to my MP asking him to not give me the money)

[goldbug9999]

Maybe not, but Men with a house and money get a much nicer looking chick than men who live in bedsits and play computer games all day.

Its only temporary, after the divorce he'll be back in that bedsit playing games, saving for a deposit to buy a house for his next ex ...

[gus]

I love this implicit assumption here that a man WANTS to attract a woman.

The grass always looks greener dan, you'd just be swapping one set of problems for another.

Don't regret what you haven't done, until you've done it you won't know if it was better or worse than what you imagine it to be.

A mortgage, a mondeo, a bland woman, a lawn to cut, kids you are responsible for, a cookie cutter estate to live in for years on end, a tedious job you can't afford to quit... be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Freedom is worth so much more than what you've been told you want.

Amen!

[the end is a bit nigher]

It helped:

to stave off civil war, hunger, sickness etc - there would have been no cash in the cashpoint machines and no cards accepted at retailers, at least until a deal was done

Bank employees - lots of people kept their jobs, from cleaners up to the Chairmen

Debtors - if a big bank had gone, then interest rates would have been in double figures over night

Housing market - based on the above, the market would have looked busy in comparison

The Government - this was their mess. A GE would have had to follow pretty soon afterwards.

Savers - it was our money they were losing

If you don't fall into any of the above then you got bog all out of it.

[RandomBear]

Seems to be my posting theme of the day but what you all seem to miss is that without the Government when you went into that bank for your £10k in savings, it wouldn't have been there. Bank runs don't end up with everyone getting their cash, that's why there's a queue....

[Bloo Loo]

Seems to be my posting theme of the day but what you all seem to miss is that without the Government when you went into that bank for your £10k in savings, it wouldn't have been there. Bank runs don't end up with everyone getting their cash, that's why there's a queue....

most people had 0 savings.

and the remaining banks would have been stumping up to the tune of 4.7bn or so.

the rest could have gone stright back to savers with the bailout monies.

no banks need have been saved. thats just the way they chose to do it. Lehmans didnt collapse the World as they said they would.

[RandomBear]

most people had 0 savings.

and the remaining banks would have been stumping up to the tune of 4.7bn or so.

the rest could have gone stright back to savers with the bailout monies.

no banks need have been saved. thats just the way they chose to do it. Lehmans didnt collapse the World as they said they would.

You are right, but the whole UK would be bust. I am scared (like you) that we have only postponed our day of reckoning for later, but I am still glad we did.

[Bloo Loo]

You are right, but the whole UK would be bust. I am scared (like you) that we have only postponed our day of reckoning for later, but I am still glad we did.

how could the UK have been bust? we had the resource to carry out the bailouts....therefore...the conclusion has to be only some banks were bust...they were saved....to what end???

There is now every chance that the lenders will start to see the UK NOW as bust as it borrows more and more to support the dead banks...Building societies are suffering as funds are not reaching them, private companies find credit is hard or impossible to obtain....but bankers have kept their jobs, pensions and perks, the waste and corruption is still there...they still afford mouthpieces to front their rightful entitlement to exist...without change as they have learned their lessons....I think not.

[RandomBear]

how could the UK have been bust? we had the resource to carry out the bailouts....therefore...the conclusion has to be only some banks were bust...they were saved....to what end???

There is now every chance that the lenders will start to see the UK NOW as bust as it borrows more and more to support the dead banks...Building societies are suffering as funds are not reaching them, private companies find credit is hard or impossible to obtain....but bankers have kept their jobs, pensions and perks, the waste and corruption is still there...they still afford mouthpieces to front their rightful entitlement to exist...without change as they have learned their lessons....I think not.

OK. Let's play this through to its logical conclusion.

RBS and HBOS start turning down requests to withdraw cash. At this point everyone with savings in those 2 banks is in big trouble. I think that's about 40% of savers, but OK, let's assume that we get through this ok. The cash is still there notionally but inaccessible.

Now they have to start selling assets at pretty much any price to get cash. This crystallises losses at the absolute low of the cycles, of far more than RBS lost last year. In fact, it blows through the deposits that were sitting there inaccessible. You just wiped out 40% of the UK's savings base. And the best bit is, you didn't actually help any borrowers (by cancelling their mortgages) since most of the UK mortgages on those books are securitised already. All you did was give a load of free money to the overseas banks who use US -backed money to buy up assets at firesale prices.

The banks are in default, and that in turn has a spiralling effect on other UK banks. International banks refuse to give any credit to UK banks at all, since RBS and Lloyds HBOS have just gone bust. People start queuing outside the other banks for their cash. Cash access is once again suspended. The asset sale starts, and once again, the mortgages are unaffected as they are largely securitised and held outside the UK. Savers lose out.

So, overall, you just destroyed £600bio in savings and gave it to the US while destroying the only industry the UK actually excels in.

[Bloo Loo]

OK. Let's play this through to its logical conclusion.

RBS and HBOS start turning down requests to withdraw cash. At this point everyone with savings in those 2 banks is in big trouble. I think that's about 40% of savers, but OK, let's assume that we get through this ok. The cash is still there notionally but inaccessible.

Now they have to start selling assets at pretty much any price to get cash. This crystallises losses at the absolute low of the cycles, of far more than RBS lost last year. In fact, it blows through the deposits that were sitting there inaccessible. You just wiped out 40% of the UK's savings base. And the best bit is, you didn't actually help any borrowers (by cancelling their mortgages) since most of the UK mortgages on those books are securitised already. All you did was give a load of free money to the overseas banks who use US -backed money to buy up assets at firesale prices.

The banks are in default, and that in turn has a spiralling effect on other UK banks. International banks refuse to give any credit to UK banks at all, since RBS and Lloyds HBOS have just gone bust. People start queuing outside the other banks for their cash. Cash access is once again suspended. The asset sale starts, and once again, the mortgages are unaffected as they are largely securitised and held outside the UK. Savers lose out.

So, overall, you just destroyed £600bio in savings and gave it to the US while destroying the only industry the UK actually excels in.

and how much in debt to other banks would have been defaulted.

Hey...it would have been painful...but its going to be paid for one way or another.

and those banks wouldnt have shut overnight....Administrators would have taken over...the FSA would have seen to that ( god help us).

as I say, your scenario was what was threatened with Lehmans...it didnt happen.

and Lloyds didnt own HBOS at the time.....now there was a bank that could have bought the carcase just the same...

I can see the domino effect, but dont forget, many of the dominos would have been 2 way....so like CDS, many would have a much smaller effect than the nominal values of the assets.

same with the savers....many savers would have had loans and mortgages with the same banks....these could and would ( under FSA rules) have been counteracted, ie £10k in savings and chequeing accounts, would have offset against the £200K mortgage.

Immediate cessation of pensions, bonuses and shares, and you have a nasty but containable situation.

course, I dont know all the facts, but we have hundreds of banks in the UK, which werent bailed out.

[RandomBear]

and how much in debt to other banks would have been defaulted.

Hey...it would have been painful...but its going to be paid for one way or another.

and those banks wouldnt have shut overnight....Administrators would have taken over...the FSA would have seen to that ( god help us).

as I say, your scenario was what was threatened with Lehmans...it didnt happen.

and Lloyds didnt own HBOS at the time.....now there was a bank that could have bought the carcase just the same...

I can see the domino effect, but dont forget, many of the dominos would have been 2 way....so like CDS, many would have a much smaller effect than the nominal values of the assets.

same with the savers....many savers would have had loans and mortgages with the same banks....these could and would ( under FSA rules) have been counteracted, ie £10k in savings and chequeing accounts, would have offset against the £200K mortgage.

Immediate cessation of pensions, bonuses and shares, and you have a nasty but containable situation.

course, I dont know all the facts, but we have hundreds of banks in the UK, which werent bailed out.

Look, I'm speculating as well. But I don't think you can just get a haircut on a mortgage if it's been securitised which a lot of them had been so it would have been much harder.

I suspect you are right and we have only deferred judgement day (hence my Bear status despite my unashamed Banker Apologist status...) but I still find it hard to criticise the actions already taken. Moral hazard was already present, we just made it (a lot) worse.

[Bloo Loo]

Look, I'm speculating as well. But I don't think you can just get a haircut on a mortgage if it's been securitised which a lot of them had been so it would have been much harder.

I suspect you are right and we have only deferred judgement day (hence my Bear status despite my unashamed Banker Apologist status...) but I still find it hard to criticise the actions already taken. Moral hazard was already present, we just made it (a lot) worse.

its difficult if not impossible to see where we are, because, in spite of the newly lit searchlight onto the financial community, it appears there is much prefarication, hiding and downright lying going on.

[RandomBear]

its difficult if not impossible to see where we are, because, in spite of the newly lit searchlight onto the financial community, it appears there is much prefarication, hiding and downright lying going on.

The search light is good. Tighter, not necessarily greater, regulation, would be a good thing. It's a pity that most countries seem to be dodging the responsibility to actually shine that spotlight and just want to tax people more, without asking how best or why.

[huw]

OK. Let's play this through to its logical conclusion.

RBS and HBOS start turning down requests to withdraw cash. At this point everyone with savings in those 2 banks is in big trouble. I think that's about 40% of savers, but OK, let's assume that we get through this ok. The cash is still there notionally but inaccessible.

Now they have to start selling assets at pretty much any price to get cash. This crystallises losses at the absolute low of the cycles, of far more than RBS lost last year. In fact, it blows through the deposits that were sitting there inaccessible. You just wiped out 40% of the UK's savings base. And the best bit is, you didn't actually help any borrowers (by cancelling their mortgages) since most of the UK mortgages on those books are securitised already. All you did was give a load of free money to the overseas banks who use US -backed money to buy up assets at firesale prices.

The banks are in default, and that in turn has a spiralling effect on other UK banks. International banks refuse to give any credit to UK banks at all, since RBS and Lloyds HBOS have just gone bust. People start queuing outside the other banks for their cash. Cash access is once again suspended. The asset sale starts, and once again, the mortgages are unaffected as they are largely securitised and held outside the UK. Savers lose out.

So, overall, you just destroyed £600bio in savings and gave it to the US while destroying the only industry the UK actually excels in.

Anybody, including the BoE, could have bid for the fire-sale assets, so there was no reason for the UK to lose out there (probably cheaper to get the assets that way, than to buy the bank ).

There were options that would have saved depositors without taking on all the other obligations -- no need to keep retail deposits + bad loans in a single entity, as we saw with B&B. But as you say, allowing the banks to default would have had impacts on the rest of the UK banks (maybe the effects would have been global).

But if a UK bank cannot be allowed to default on its debt then all UK bank debt is really UK sovereign debt, which raises some profound questions about what banks are for, and what interest rates those who lend to them should expect.

[porca misèria]

I'd say unless you have more than £35,000 in stock investments or savings accounts you lost out on the bailout. At your expense people who are richer than you had their wealth saved.

Remember that the next time you hear a rich person crying about higher taxes. If it wasn't for the state stepping in, that rich person's wealth would have been gone, the system would have hit the reset button.

You're confusing "rich" with "highly taxed". Please stop it.

It's the productive who are highly taxed[1]. Not the rich, except by coincidence.

[1] Along with some grossly-overpaid. But I suspect they're very few indeed, as a real-economy company that overpays substantially doesn't get a bailout.

[Tired of Waiting]

You're confusing "rich" with "highly taxed". Please stop it.

It's the productive who are highly taxed[1]. Not the rich, except by coincidence.

[1] Along with some grossly-overpaid. But I suspect they're very few indeed, as a real-economy company that overpays substantially doesn't get a bailout.

Agree.