1 Million Households In Private Rented Recieve Housing Benefit.

[kara gee]

Nothing we don't already know, but really makes me bloody angry.

An avereage housing benefit payout is £60 per week X 1million households =£3,120,000,000

:angry:

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:JI-ydp6Xt7AJ:www.citizensincome.org/filelibrary/doc/Housing%2520Benefit%2520Discussion%2520paper.doc+percentage+housing+benefit+claimants+private+housing&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

(good document if you like 'benefit porn')

[twatmangle]

Nothing we don't already know, but really makes me bloody angry.

An avereage housing benefit payout is £60 per week X 1million households =£3,120,000,000

:angry:

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:JI-ydp6Xt7AJ:www.citizensincome.org/filelibrary/doc/Housing%2520Benefit%2520Discussion%2520paper.doc+percentage+housing+benefit+claimants+private+housing&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

(good document if you like 'benefit porn')

I don't see why it makes you angry.

If you rent, the government should help you with your housing costs if you lose your job etc.

I'm you have a mortgage, the government should equally help you.

Somebody somewhere is going to be getting paid from the government money.

Presumably the only people not to get help from the government would be those who own outright.

[porca misèria]

I don't see why it makes you angry.

Because it inflates rents.

And thus inflates yields for the spivs.

And thus inflates the whole house price bubble.

And prices honest hardworking folks out of a home.

[Johnny Storm]

Nothing we don't already know, but really makes me bloody angry.

No point getting angry. Just remember that all money you pay in tax will be wasted, and probably used against your interests. Its just the way things work here.

Get the system paying you, thats the trick!

[twatmangle]

Because it inflates rents.

at £60 per week?

And thus inflates yields for the spivs.

at £60 per week? Good luck trying to make a BTL profit from DSS tenants paying £240 per month gross.

And thus inflates the whole house price bubble.

you've already made this point, but I'll humour you. You're right it wasn't the banks after all , it was local authorities recklessly doling out those £60 housing benefit cheques.

And prices honest hardworking folks out of a home.

c.f throwing unemployed /needy people out of their homes

[moesasji]

I don't see why it makes you angry.

If you rent, the government should help you with your housing costs if you lose your job etc.

I'm you have a mortgage, the government should equally help you.

Somebody somewhere is going to be getting paid from the government money.

Presumably the only people not to get help from the government would be those who own outright.

You forget one aspect...this whole "housing-benefit" thing pushes up the rent in private renting to unaffordable levels for many. To illustrate what the effect of this is: the graph below from the "GB Wealth report by the office of national statistics" speaks for itself.

The whole >170 pages long report is quite interesting due to the amount of detail. I found the level of outstanding mortgages surprisingly low....which probably means that the young <35 - 40 years with recent mortgages are the only one with serious problems servicing the. The link to the report itself: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/wealth-assets-2006-2008/Wealth_in_GB_2006_2008.pdf

[porca misèria]

at £60 per week?

Every little helps. An across-the-board rent drop of just £6/week would be better than nothing. Let alone £60 (which could, for example, be the difference between £740 and £1000/month).

Noone is suggesting that someone with zero income and zero savings but who qualifies for benefits gets just £60/week, even if it is indeed (as the OP suggests) an average.

[porca misèria]

2006-2008. That'll reflect the top of the bubble.

What that shows is a clear distinction between the poor (both sections of renters, people who didn't participate in the bubble) and everyone else.

[kara gee]

at £60 per week? Good luck trying to make a BTL profit from DSS tenants paying £240 per month gross.

Actually, it.does seem stupidly low. Having re-read, the £60 is for social housing.

No average £ for private rent in this doc, but we know it's significantly more than £60

UK average rent is £892 pcm ( http://www.rentright.co.uk/121_rt.aspx )

On those figures, the numbers are frightening!

Edited January 5, 2010 by kara gee

[Colin]

Nothing we don't already know, but really makes me bloody angry.

I agree!

Britain is borked.

It's not just the rents that are inflated, the whole BTL bubble was partially inflated by HB.

Anyone care to remember the M.P.s whinging that it wasn't possible to finance a second home in London on 24K expenses?

THE AVERAGE WAGE IN LONDON BEFORE TAX AND NI IS £25k!!!

This country is broken beyond repair and once the cheap alcohol and SKY TV methadone stop then it will be time for a revolution!

[kenny dalglish]

Nothing we don't already know, but really makes me bloody angry.

An avereage housing benefit payout is £60 per week X 1million households =£3,120,000,000

:angry:

http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:JI-ydp6Xt7AJ:www.citizensincome.org/filelibrary/doc/Housing%2520Benefit%2520Discussion%2520paper.doc+percentage+housing+benefit+claimants+private+housing&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

(good document if you like 'benefit porn')

Funny how you don't make the leap and ask yourself why there are so many people receiving, housing benefit ? Their all lazy, right ? spongers, am I right ? You are being played my friend.

Where did the banking bail out money go ? Who was this intervention for ? The rich or the poor ? A recent report stated that it is possible that as much as a third, yes that's right a third of all money generated in this country is siphoned off-shore, not a single penny of tax is paid. Is that people living below the poverty line doing that ? hmm.

And who controls the media ? WHo owns the majority of the media outlets that churn out the sort of bilge that you swallow by the bucket load ? Hmm, could it be the rich again I wonder ?

What we have seen with the banking chrisis is as crystal clear an example of who exactly runs the world as you could possibly ever hope to see. There really is no pretence, they shafted the lot of us and we will be paying for this for generations.

But hey let's forget all that, just let them throw up the usual straw men the unemployed,single mums, immigrants, asylum seekers, fill-in-your-own-presonal-prejudice-here and like the brain-washed drone you are, you will jump for the bait.

[Jister1]

Because it inflates rents.

And thus inflates yields for the spivs.

And thus inflates the whole house price bubble.

And prices honest hardworking folks out of a home.

Thats BS. There are lots of honest and hard working people who own there homes......and there are lots that do not either through choice or they can not afford too.....if they choose not then that's up to the individual, if they can not afford too then they need to generate a 2nd income or get a better payed job or live somewhere more affordable or simply rent.

Nobody has adivine right to own their home and those who do have done what it takes to do so. I know there are people who work the system to their advantage but that is neither here nor there as every system is worked by a few who decide to take what the feel they can get away with taking.

Get over it!

[MacGuffin]

at £60 per week? Good luck trying to make a BTL profit from DSS tenants paying £240 per month gross.

you've already made this point, but I'll humour you. You're right it wasn't the banks after all , it was local authorities recklessly doling out those £60 housing benefit cheques.

c.f throwing unemployed /needy people out of their homes

Guys, housing benefit is MUCH more than £60 a week. I think you're getting it confused with JSA, which is about £65 a week.

Housing benefit levels are set according to local rental prices. For example, a single person* in central London is entitled to approx £360 a week in housing benefit payments. Yes, you read that correctly. Over £1500 per month.

(Edit) *if they are living on their own

Edited January 5, 2010 by MacGuffin

[kara gee]

Funny how you don't make the leap and ask yourself why there are so many people receiving, housing benefit ? Their all lazy, right ? spongers, am I right ? You are being played my friend.

Where did the banking bail out money go ? Who was this intervention for ? The rich or the poor ? A recent report stated that it is possible that as much as a third, yes that's right a third of all money generated in this country is siphoned off-shore, not a single penny of tax is paid. Is that people living below the poverty line doing that ? hmm.

And who controls the media ? WHo owns the majority of the media outlets that churn out the sort of bilge that you swallow by the bucket load ? Hmm, could it be the rich again I wonder ?

What we have seen with the banking chrisis is as crystal clear an example of who exactly runs the world as you could possibly ever hope to see. There really is no pretence, they shafted the lot of us and we will be paying for this for generations.

But hey let's forget all that, just let them throw up the usual straw men the unemployed,single mums, immigrants, asylum seekers, fill-in-your-own-presonal-prejudice-here and like the brain-washed drone you are, you will jump for the bait.

Wrong! My anger is at the incompetent system that prefers to line the pockets of the wealthy (landlords in this case) rather than investing in building new social housing for those that need it the most. Good solid housing (low utility bills/ long life etc).

Any anger I might have towards the lazy and incompetent, pales into insignificance when compared to that I have towards the spineless, short-term, self-motivated governments we have to put up with.

I am angry to pay the mortgage of a landlord. I would be happy if those taxes went to building 'excellent' social housing.

[Jister1]

Guys, housing benefit is MUCH more than £60 a week. I think you're getting it confused with JSA, which is about £65 a week.

Housing benefit levels are set according to local rental prices. For example, a single person in central London is entitled to approx £360 a week in housing benefit payments. Yes, you read that correctly. Over £1500 per month.

1 bed flat edinburgh generates £128.00 PW via LHA

£625.00 minimum for a 2 bed. you can see why some people take the risk on renter who are claiming this.....some landlords will not take on housing benifit claiments and are losing money but gaining some kind of security that they have a more respectable tenant.

If you own a shit house in the slums who cares? take as much as poss and keep your nose clean.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Jister1

[bomberbrown]

Funny how you don't make the leap and ask yourself why there are so many people receiving, housing benefit ? Their all lazy, right ? spongers, am I right ? You are being played my friend.

I've got an answer for that. It's because of an extraordinary genorous, but very broken benefits system that makes it completely and financially unviable for the majority of these people to go out and get a reasonable job that will put a roof over their head, food on the table and night down the pub on a Saturday night.

Ironically, it's a Labour government that has got us where we are today in only 13 years of power!

[Stars]

Thats BS. There are lots of honest and hard working people who own there homes......and there are lots that do not either through choice or they can not afford too.....if they choose not then that's up to the individual, if they can not afford too then they need to generate a 2nd income or get a better payed job or live somewhere more affordable or simply rent.

And higher prices means owning your home is more difficult.- was porc's point

You start off confidently with a 'BS', but then go on to contradict nothing

Those owning real estate hold part of a cartel which allows them to charge for advantages and benefits created from work other people do. This is a gigantic miss-allocation away from the productive into the pockets of those who hold real estate.

Nobody has adivine right to own their home and those who do have done what it takes to do so.

However, people have a natural right to be left alone - a right logically contradicted by the ownership of the ground on which they can stand

[moesasji]

2006-2008. That'll reflect the top of the bubble.

What that shows is a clear distinction between the poor (both sections of renters, people who didn't participate in the bubble) and everyone else.

It lies in what you define as "poor". If you mean "poor" as not owning property then your completely right as a massive amount of the wealth is tied up in houses (=39%) and pensions (=39%).

The point that I was trying to make that people who did not (or could not) participate in the housing bubble are struggling due to the insane levels of rents with little alternative as they have to live somewhere. Salaries have to be pretty high to have decent rental accommodation for a family....giving handouts on the "average" level of rent for a region in benefit to landlords in my opinion will by definition push rents up as argued in the times-article currently on the front-page: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article6974622.ece

[kara gee]

1 bed flat edinburgh generates £128.00 PW via LHA

£625.00 minimum for a 2 bed. you can see why some people take the risk on renter who are claiming this.....some landlords will not take on housing benifit claiments and are losing money but gaining some kind of security that they have a more respectable tenant.

If you own a shit house in the slums who cares? take as much as poss and keep your nose clean.

http://www.homemove.co.uk/news/19-12-2009/average-rent-down-3-on-the-year.html

Average UK rent £820 pcm.

[moesasji]

Average UK rent £820 pcm.

And that indicates the problem....average people struggle if the outgoing for rents exceed 40% of the total after tax household income (I think 30% is the norm for a typical household to keep below). Assuming that we take 40% a household would need to have an after-tax income of GBP 2050 per month. Which is GBP 24.600 after tax, corresponding to ~33k a year income needed just to survive.

Is 33K really the average house-hold income for people that don't own houses?

*) Note that the much more realistic calculation using 30% as rental-outgoings requires a ~45k household income.

edit) Added graph of house-hold income for all people (including those owning!!) below:

Edited January 5, 2010 by moesasji

[Bloo Loo]

I don't see why it makes you angry.

If you rent, the government should help you with your housing costs if you lose your job etc.

I'm you have a mortgage, the government should equally help you.

Somebody somewhere is going to be getting paid from the government money.

Presumably the only people not to get help from the government would be those who own outright.

if you lose your job and you have a mortgage, the government doesnt help you...it PAYS ALL your interest up to 6.05% or so whatever the actual interest for up to 2 years.

I you rent and lose your job, you get only the benefit that your family needs..so if you have a 4 bed and are a family with 2 same sex kids, you get rental benefit on a two bed place.

the mortgagor could live in a mansion...the size matters not, just the interest and the amount of loan...up to £200,000

[Bloo Loo]

http://www.homemove....n-the-year.html

Average UK rent £820 pcm.

meaningless. rents are acheived Town byTown

[twatmangle]

if you lose your job and you have a mortgage, the government doesnt help you...it PAYS ALL your interest up to 6.05% or so whatever the actual interest for up to 2 years.

Can you show me a link that the government will pay all the interest on a mortgage if you lose your job? I simply don't believe it's that clear cut.

EDIT: You don't get any money for 9 months. You don't get any money if a partner is working more than 24 hours week, and you don't get any if you have more than £8k in savings.

Edited January 5, 2010 by twatmangle

[Bloo Loo]

Can you show me a link that the government will pay all the interest on a mortgage if you lose your job? I simply don't believe it's that clear cut.

EDIT: You don't get any money for 9 months. You don't get any money if a partner is working more than 24 hours week, and you don't get any if you have more than £8k in savings.

ALL changed for about a year now:

Changes to SMI during the economic downturn

Temporary extra help through SMI has been available since 5 January 2009 because of the economic downturn.

Conditions that apply to SMI since 5 January 2009

There are some conditions that apply to most claims for help with your mortgage interest made since 5 January 2009:

• you wait 13 weeks from the date you claim before you get SMI (this is known as a waiting period and was previously 39 or 26 weeks)
• you’ll be able to claim for mortgage interest on up to £200,000 of your mortgage (this was previously £100,000)
• if you have claimed Jobseeker’s Allowance on or after 5 January 2009 you’ll be paid SMI for two years only
• if you were still in the waiting period to get SMI under the old conditions on 4 January 2009, you’ll be eligible for the temporary extra help

If you have questions about these conditions, contact Jobcentre Plus or The Pension Service by following the links below.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_180321

[kara gee]

meaningless. rents are acheived Town byTown

An average is an average. I'm not going to start listing rents town by town.