Vi Spin Must Be Effectively Opposed

[Time 2 raise the rants]

I have been visiting this forum for many months, first as bull but now increasingly as someone who is rapidly becoming bearish about the outlook for UK housing. Everywhere I look I see all the signs of an impending major house price correction.

I have now registered because I think I should speak up on this forum about what I see as a near criminal distortion of the truth by the lenders, EAs and all the rest who make a penny out of property transactions. Why are they allowed to get away with distorting the truth, twisting statistics and telling blatant lies?

HPC needs to 'up' its campaign and square up to these liars!

[Warwickshire Lad]

Why are they allowed to get away with distorting the truth, twisting statistics and telling blatant lies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Suggest you read the article A Guide to the Vested Interests of the Housing Market

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

I'll second that Time2raisetherants. The UK's PR industry is the second largest in the world, so that might explain things. I think the amount of spin that's being spewed out at the moment is just a sign of desperation. Those who wish to see property prices maintained at the current levels know that the only thing preventing a full-blown crash at the moment is sentiment and illegal lending - sentiment is deteriorating fast and illegal lending is just making the situation even more dangerous. No matter what the media is spinning, every sane person knows what's going on - problems selling homes, housing crisis, etc. Bring on the crash!

Edited July 29, 2005 by gruffydd

[Bubble Pricker]

With my limited media experience so far, I can tell you it is hell difficult to contravene the VI spin. For some reason, only known to the media, the representatives of lenders, RICS and estate agents are always present as "experts", whereas on the rare occasions when I do get some media coverage, I always have to put up with being put into the "nutter" department.

I try to work hard on this, but it is difficult. I have learnt that it is more important to have lines available like politicians, and this has now become well trained. When some muppet from the VIs goes on about how in the last crash interest rates and unemployment were so much higher, you simply will not be given the time in the media to rebut these myths. So from now on I am going to have two catchphrases: (1) you would not pay twice as much for your car just because interest rates are low, so why for a house? (2) You can have as much employment as you want, people just cannot afford to buy property any more.

Working the media is hard, and we have to keep chipping away.

[VacantPossession]

(1) you would not pay twice as much for your car just because interest rates are low, so why for a house?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a clever phrase. Of course you might be challenged in that cars do deteriorate quite quickly in a short time. But I thoroughly agree on the core logic of that argument.

As for VI's, it is staggering how many "experts" invited on TV, radio and rags to pontificate about the property market are no more experts than a lemon seller in Berwick street market. Actually the market stall holder is probably more of an expert.

VI come-uppance represents a veritable mountain to climb. There is no such thing as "editorial" any longer. Almost all "opinion" is commercial interest.

All one can do is keep plugging away.

VP

[Time 2 raise the rants]

I did not wish to imply any criticism of HPC which does fantastic work in trying to balance the lies peddled by the VIs. I guess it's just a matter of chipping away continously and trying to change the opinions of the public who seem so badly advised by everyone.

I just get so angry with the media - hence the rant!

[Time 2 raise the rants]

you would not pay twice as much for your car just because interest rates are low, so why for a house?

One of the best quotes ever seen on this forum. Makes you think doesn't it? I don't see my weekly Tesco shop doubling in cost either.

[Rain'ard]

To BP

I thought you did a good job last Sunday on Radio5 and were only thwarted by that swimming report. Had you had more time and opportunity you could have floored that rics guy. The phone contributors were gunning for him from the start. It was a pity you weren’t given the chance to go in for the kill.

Sincerely

Foxy

[right_freds_dead]

when I do get some media coverage, I always have to put up with being put into the "nutter" department. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

classic.

once numbers get up we can have a protest march and get on the telly to counter the housing spin and deal out some reality.

yesterday i was so angry at the media i karate kicked a polystyrene block in two.

then headbutted a washing up bowl of water.

[Time 2 raise the rants]

PR surely has a big part to play. Has HPC considered sending out monthly press releases to the media. I think there are organisations like Newswire that are not too expensive. Couldn't we collectively raise some money for this?

I'm new here so forgive me if this has already been suggested.

[Jason]

PR surely has a big part to play. Has HPC considered sending out monthly press releases to the media. I think there are organisations like Newswire that are not too expensive. Couldn't we collectively raise some money for this?

I'm new here so forgive me if this has already been suggested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This was mentioned in this thread http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...ndpost&p=155014 - I'm sure members on here would contribute to the work involved!

With regards to the media issue, you'll never really win so I suggest the best is to target those FTBers, tell them not to live in poverty as 60% do presently (bbc article), not to borrow more than 3.5x etc etc. Put that doubt into their mind...

I also think it would be good to tell FTBers to do their own research, and point them to http://www.firsttimebuyerhelp.co.uk, as the HPC will immediately be persived as biased (hence its name). I always think you can never tell people how it is if they're told the opposite by the majority - but you can make it easy for them to do their own research!

Edited July 30, 2005 by Jason

[eric pebble]

I did not wish to imply any criticism of HPC which does fantastic work in trying to balance the lies peddled by the VIs. I guess it's just a matter of chipping away continously and trying to change the opinions of the public who seem so badly advised by everyone.

I just get so angry with the media - hence the rant!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have my complete sympaty T2RTR -- it is staggering how the VI's just keep pedlling the same old lies. The one exception I can think of was that excellent The Money Programme which exposed the fraudulent "Self-Cert" mortgages..... but that was quickly buried by the VI's -- it is really really frightening - and G Brown is at it the whole time - it is a REAL scandal. But let us keep plugging on - we [most of us here at HPC] are the only ines telling the truth - and it is just a matter of time.... http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=12762

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

At the end of the day it's a question of resources. The VIs will be employing PR consultancies / internal PR employees, to churn out news releases, lobby politicians, etc. Very daunting, but if we all dedicated a couple of hours a week to countering the lies, it'll be worth it.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Just to give you an idea of what I've done over the last couple of weeks - contacted the campaign director of a political party about an idea for a new campaign on affordable housing - they've requested a meeting this Autumn. Contacted a local radio station about their property of the week 'guess the price' competition, to stop them advertising the properties as second homes / investment properties - they've agreed to that. Contacted a local chain of EAs to stop them advertising houses as second homes / investment opportunities - awaiting the outcome. Contacted Rhodri Morgan, leader of the Assembly, to find out whether the Assembly had been consulted about G Brown's SIPP plans - awaiting a reply.

Hope this gives you some ideas, though i doubt you need them. I thing that targeted news releases would be very beneficial to our cause. Only trouble is the time involved - it's takes me a day to write and distribute one decent news release.

Edited July 30, 2005 by gruffydd

[Yankee]

Just to give you an idea of what I've done over the last couple of weeks - contacted the campaign director of a political party about an idea for a new campaign on affordable housing - they've requested a meeting this Autumn. Contacted a local radio station about their property of the week 'guess the price' competition, to stop them advertising the properties as second homes / investment properties - they've agreed to that. Contacted a local chain of EAs to stop them advertising houses as second homes / investment opportunities - awaiting the outcome. Contacted Rhodri Morgan, leader of the Assembly, to find out whether the Assembly had been consulted about G Brown's SIPP plans - awaiting a reply.

Hope this gives you some ideas, though i doubt you need them. I thing that targeted news releases would be very beneficial to our cause. Only trouble is the time involved - it's takes me a day to write and distribute one decent press release.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow. That's impressive. I was going to suggest that people (Web masters?) choose several key members of the British media and build up a personal relationship with them as a reliable source. For example, when the VIs publish their statistics or make a very public inane statement, an HPC representative could call or e-mail the media member and calmly and reasonably (as BP did on the radio show) point out what the VI didn't say. Keep it simple. Make only one or two points. Reporters like simplicity. (I know this from personal experience. ) Over time, the reporter may start calling HPC for background information.

That's the way it's done in the States. Usually.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Great idea Yankee.

Perhaps the Web masters should set up a 'cover' house price consultancy, find a few members with relevant academic credentials to list as senior consultants. All that would be required is a small Web site and telephone number and away we go.

Happens in the world of PR all the time - cover/front organisations set up with hidden agendas.

G

Edited July 30, 2005 by gruffydd

[Yankee]

Great idea Yankee.

Perhaps the Web masters should set up a 'cover' house price consultancy, find a few members with relevant academic credentials to list as senior consultants. All that would be required is a small Web site and telephone number and away we go.

Happens in the world of PR all the time - cover/front organisations set up with hidden agendas.

G

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I nominate Dr. Bubb for one of the positions, if he can drag himself away from making all that money.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

I'll second that! Let's play the PR industry at their own game!

[VacantPossession]

I'll second that! Let's play the PR industry at their own game!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PR personnel are absolute chamelians. They change colour according to their masters' wishes. A point will be reached where VI's no longer have any interest other than in bailing out. At that point the PR brigade will change colour and seek employment in the DAMAGE LIMITATION business.

In fact a huge proportion of PR companies are now involved in more damage limitation than positive promotion of their clients. Modern PR spin, in property terms, will focus on WHO ELSE to blame when the housing market comes crashing down.

15 years ago the chosen victim was the endowment mortgage sellers. This time I predict it will be the building societies for irresponsible lending and the BTL brigade.

Broadcasters have no conscience about this sort of thing so the old "how to make a fortune out of your house" type make over rubbish will overnight change into "how to survive in a recession". I wouldn't even be surprised if our Kirsty was chosen to front the first series.

It's all happened before, but no-one ever learns.

VP

Edited July 30, 2005 by VacantPossession

[Alfie Moon]

I think we need to revive the HPC letters to Newspapers Campaign that was reasonably successful in May- June of this year, coinciding with the release of the Land Registry figures. Rich M managed to get a letter published in The Times, which would have reached a wide audience. I put a couple of letters together - one highlighted the price falls shown by the Land Registry house price stats for the first quarter of 2005 which included gems such as 'detached houses in Birmingham had fallen by -10.7% and in Manchester (all houses) house prices had fallen by -6% and a second letter which criticised Gordon Brown's scheme to help a very small number of FTB get on the property ladder through a shared equity scheme (I got the Land Registry figures into that letter as well). I took an elephant gun approach with these letter by sending them (via e-mail) to as many newspapers as I could. The letters were published in the Evening Standard (London), The Evening Mail (Birmingham), and best of all (in terms of the size of audience) The Sun (I was sent a £15 'prize' from the Editor of The Sun). I'm planning to do some more letters when the next Land Registry stats come out on 8th August. Again I will send them to all national (both broadsheet and tabloid) newspapers via e-mail (this is very easy to do and during the coming week I will post the contact details of all national newspapers 'Letters to the Editor' and Editors). It would be good if as many HPC'ers put letters together and sent them to all the national newspapers, thus increasing the chance of us getting published. HPC'ers could also take on the responsibility to send letter to their regional and local newspapers, thus increasing our audience even more.

Some letters will undoubtedly focus on the price falls contained in the Land Registry stats to show that falls are occuring and how this compares with the spin of the VI's. Other letters may want to focus on debunking the TV property programmes. It may even be worth trying to get newspaper editors to start a campaign of debunking the spin of the TV property presenters/experts. I have tried to sell this to Editors in light of - as the house price crash proceeds and becomes all the more apparent to joe and jane public the public will begin to get angry at estate agents, mortgage lenders and of course the TV property programmes. If a newspaper starts such a campaign they would be able to set themselves up as the first one to try to save the public, etc. This may not work because of the advertising revenue newspapers get from the property market. However, once you have a letter written (about 15 - 20 mins work) it is easy to send it out to as many newspapers, via e-mail, as you like. Newspapers and their editors tend to take notice if they start to get numerous letters from different people about the same topic/idea.

I think the letters to newspapers 'Letters to the Editor' already has proven success as a tactic. The encouragement for newspapers to start a debunking campaign re TV property programmes may be a non-starter, but if there are enough of us willing to try it might be worth a go.

I think we need to do as much as we can to fight the spin of the VI's. It will become easier and easier as price falls become more and more apparent. We need to stop the VI's making capital out of situations such as the possible interest rate cut coming up (if it does) in the next few months. Letters in newspapers showing how little difference this would make to mortgage monthly payments would be useful, in my opinion, to fight against the VI's spin that will surely appear if interest rates are cut.

I think we need more of us sending out the 'First Time Buyers' (Warwickshires Lad ?) websites leaflets to as many people and places as possible. I sometimes slip a few into Property magazines in W H Smiths when I can.

It may be possible to get freelance journalists interested in writing a piece or two on debunking the spin of TV property programmes, and indeed other VI's, if we contact them with some ideas and basic outlines of ideas for articles. It would be up to them to get newspapers to publish these pieces. During the coming week I can post details of how to locate and contact freelance journalists.

[Time to raise the rents.]

With my limited media experience so far, I can tell you it is hell difficult to contravene the VI spin.  For some reason, only known to the media, the representatives of lenders, RICS and estate agents are always present as "experts", whereas on the rare occasions  when I do get some media coverage, I always have to put up with being put into the "nutter" department. 

I try to work hard on this, but it is difficult. I have learnt that it is more important to have lines available like politicians, and this has now become well trained.  When some muppet from the VIs goes on about how in the last crash interest rates and unemployment were so much higher, you simply will not be given the time in the media to rebut these myths.  So from now on I am going to have two catchphrases: (1) you would not pay twice as much for your car just because interest rates are low, so why for a house? (2) You can have as much employment as you want, people just cannot afford to buy property any more.

Working the media is hard, and we have to keep chipping away.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And they would answer with:

1/ Your car doesn't come with a Freehold right to the parking space into infinity, so why would IR's be important in that case?

2/ Employed people CAN pay for their own housing. More mployed people can pay for more housing. Your statement is too broad to be realistic.

Over to you.........

[Time to raise the rents.]

And they would answer with:

1/ Your car doesn't come with a Freehold right to the parking space into infinity, so why would IR's be important in that case?

2/ Employed people CAN pay for their own housing. More employed people can pay for more housing. Your statement is too broad to be realistic.

Over to you.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just like a bunch of people looking after your own VI, as soon as the answers come out, you lose interest & go back to chanting your original complaint.

Chant, chant, chant........the never ending story of a protestor.

[oracle]

Personally,I think we can quite easily play the media at their own game.

we could send in letters to the tabloids with "bait" questions for the prop section...and also to these BTL glossies too!

such as:

I'm selling my house(in london/se because we KNOW that's falling!) and have been offered £X,which is way below the EA'a estimate.when I contacted the EA he said that given the current market I would be wise to accept.The NW/HBOS say prices are going up 4% p.a,so how can this be.

Who should I believe with respect to the market?should I accept the offered price?

....or you could resort to spamming!

Edited July 31, 2005 by oracle

[homedaq]

One very simple way would be for knowledgeable HPC members to contribute original news items and this to be created into an RSS news feed. You can then just contact Google as ask them to pick up the feed. Hey presto, balanced stories appear on the news feeds.

For $80 you can submit a press release from prweb.com that automatically feeds into all the major news feeds. These then become indexed and appear in regular web searches (Google, Yahoo! etc), and best of all, they appear on sites of a similar content and these become indexed as well.

The trick is to include your key words in the title. It works a treat. and enables you to compete with the big boys for a fraction of the cost.

I'm not connected with prweb etc,but do use it regularly. Some people get the wrong idea and pay too much as the highest paying release for that day appears top of PRWeb's feed, but these come from all different sectors. Pay the minimum of $80 to get indexed, use relevant key words in the title and that is all you need to do.

It really doesn't cost that much to compete with the big news sources as I have noted, you just have to know about net distribution.