Safety Questions Over Swine Flu Jab

[Number79]

+1

The swine flu propaganda on the news is unbearable.

The state on the economy is a much bigger threat...Why don't these idiots WAKE UP!!

:angry:

because people are dying? because those with children find it far more difficult to ignore?

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

I don't know, that is why I am asking about it. One presumes that there have been clinical studies and that tamiflu is being used because it is effective otherwise why use it and why the expense? Has anyone taking tamiflu developed complications or died of the flu anyway?

As above, from the datasheet

Efficacy of TAMIFLU in the treatment of subjects with chronic cardiac disease and/or

respiratory disease has not been established. No difference in the incidence of

complications was observed between the treatment and placebo groups in this population.

No information is available regarding treatment of influenza in patients with any medical

condition sufficiently severe or unstable to be considered at imminent risk of requiring

hospitalization.

The short version of the usefulness of Tamiflu which I keep in my mind is that it makes people feel better about 1-2 days quicker.

Oseltamivir phosphate is an oral prodrug which undergoes hydrolysis by hepatic esterases to form active oseltamivir carboxylate, also referred to as GS4071. Oseltamivir carboxylate acts by selective inhibition of influenza A and B viral neuraminidase. A lipophilic side chain of the active drug binds to the virus enzyme, blocking its ability to cleave sialic acid residues on the surface of the infected cell and resulting in an inability to release progeny virions.

Short version - It reduces the number of virus particles by stopping them bursting out of infected cells.

[Victor_Broom]

Is there more than one company making a vaccine? Or is it just Baxter?

Britain has ordered 60 million doses, enough to cover its entire population. But those doses are being manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline PLC and Baxter International Inc., whose production plants are in Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. Neither Britain’s department of health or the vaccine manufacturers would comment on delivery plans.

Link.

[Number79]

Link.

if it takes so long to produce and is so required then why are factories in other countries producing it for us? why don't they want it for their populace?

[Pindar]

I don't say that it is impossible that thiomersal is dangerous - I have not studied the evidence. Just that it is important not to make faulty leaps of logic such as "elemental mercury is dangerous therefore thiomersal is dangerous"

One of the metabolites of Thimerosal is ethyl mercury. http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/thimerosalqa.htm

As ever, not enough research has been done into the differences between ethyl and methyl mercury - the latter which is known to be highly toxic. The DHHS considered them similar enough to warrant a recommendation that levels of Thimerosal be reduced or eliminated altogether.

Just as with the proponents of global warming theory - it's better to be safe than sorry.

[Number79]

As above, from the datasheet

Efficacy of TAMIFLU in the treatment of subjects with chronic cardiac disease and/or

respiratory disease has not been established. No difference in the incidence of

complications was observed between the treatment and placebo groups in this population.

No information is available regarding treatment of influenza in patients with any medical

condition sufficiently severe or unstable to be considered at imminent risk of requiring

hospitalization.

The short version of the usefulness of Tamiflu which I keep in my mind is that it makes people feel better about 1-2 days quicker.

Oseltamivir phosphate is an oral prodrug which undergoes hydrolysis by hepatic esterases to form active oseltamivir carboxylate, also referred to as GS4071. Oseltamivir carboxylate acts by selective inhibition of influenza A and B viral neuraminidase. A lipophilic side chain of the active drug binds to the virus enzyme, blocking its ability to cleave sialic acid residues on the surface of the infected cell and resulting in an inability to release progeny virions.

Short version - It reduces the number of virus particles by stopping them bursting out of infected cells.

Thanks, looks like at worst it does little but make you feel better slightly sooner but at best if you have it to hand at the onset then it could make a significant difference by keeping the virus in check.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

Yes, the principle of non-maleficence. However, I would have thought that the philosophy used in subjecting the public to an untested vaccine verges on utilitarianism: "the greatest good for the greatest number of people" as in some will die from the untested vaccine for the benefit of the many who won't.

Which happens with any new treatment being trialled.

Would I personally recommend the vaccine right now from my personal observed cases of the flu, statistics I have read so far, and my theoretical knowledge of vaccines generally?

Not yet, but ask me again in a few weeks or months though and you might get a different answer.

And I might be wrong.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

Thanks, looks like at worst it does little but make you feel better slightly sooner but at best if you have it to hand at the onset then it could make a significant difference by keeping the virus in check.

Yeah, that's my conclusion too.

[Lander]

David Icke talks about swine flu.

I had no idea that kids have 25 injections before the age of 2

[MOP]

For example, Thimerosal is supposedly used as a preservative, but it has been known for years that Thimerosal is very ineffective for this purpose. One thing that Thimerosal has in common with many other ingredients in vaccines though is the fact that it can cause brain damage.

When brain cells are exposed to mercury (Thimerosal is about 50% mercury) scientists discovered that two things happen. The brain cells get Neurofibrillary tangles, and Amyloid beta becomes free, allowing it to accumulate. The scientists showed their findings in this video. Note the message at the beginning that says:

In 1997 a team of research scientists demonstrated that mercury vapor inhalation by animals produced a molecular lesion in brain protein metabolism produced a lesion that is seen in 80% of Alzheimer's diseased brains.The main symptoms of Alzheimer's disease are identical to the effects of mercury on brain cells shown in the video:

The two major findings in the Alzheimer's brain are amyloid plaques and neurofibrillary tangles. Amyloid plaques are found outside the neurons, neurofibrillary plaques are found inside the neurons. Neurons are the nerve cells within the brain.

Plaques and tangles are found in the brains of people without Alzheimer's. It is the gross amounts of them that are significant in Alzheimer's disease.

The role of amyloid plaques in Alzheimer's

Amyloid plaques are mostly made up of a protein called B-amyloid protein which is itself part of a much larger protein called APP (amyloid precursor protein). These are amino acids.

We do not know what APP does. But we do know that APP is made in the cell, transported to the cell membrane and later broken down. Two major pathways are involved in breakdown of APP (amyloid precursor protein). One pathway is normal and causes no problem. The second results in the changes seen in Alzheimer's and in some of the other dementias.

It's important to note that although most vaccines no longer contain the Influenza vaccine is one of the few vaccinations that still contain this ingredient.

http://davidrothscum.blogspot.com/2009/05/...in-barrier.html

It would be interesting to know how prevalent Alzheimer's was before Thimerosal was introduced.

[Victor_Broom]

if it takes so long to produce and is so required then why are factories in other countries producing it for us? why don't they want it for their populace?

Good question. I guess other countries would like to have it. I wonder if it is a first come first served basis. ie. We got our order in first.

Plenty of plants in UK. Maybe these are geared up for different products?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlaxoSmithKline

[Lander]

+1

The swine flu propaganda on the news is unbearable.

The state on the economy is a much bigger threat...Why don't these idiots WAKE UP!!

:angry:

Agreed, makes a pretty good distraction from the economic clusterfvck though eh?

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

http://davidrothscum.blogspot.com/2009/05/...in-barrier.html

It would be interesting to know how prevalent Alzheimer's was before Thimerosal was introduced.

And how prevalent 80 year olds were before any vaccines.

And whether eating lots of tuna has any marked effect.

[crashologist]

Agreed, makes a pretty good distraction from the economic clusterfvck though eh?

Well business will be able to use swine flu as an excuse for failure, real or otherwise. The media have a duty to present the facts but must try to limit fear - remember the fuel shortages? Restaurants, pubs,and cafes could for instance struggle due to less custom etc. People might start to use public transport only when they have to etc, etc.

[Pindar]

And how prevalent 80 year olds were before any vaccines.

So you'd rather live longer but suffer from a horrible degenerative disease that could be prevented?

[Lander]

Well business will be able to use swine flu as an excuse for failure, real or otherwise. The media have a duty to present the facts but must try to limit fear - remember the fuel shortages? Restaurants, pubs,and cafes could for instance struggle due to less custom etc. People might start to use public transport only when they have to etc, etc.

G Brown also

[MOP]

And how prevalent 80 year olds were before any vaccines.

And whether eating lots of tuna has any marked effect.

Indeed. That's a can of worms. Mercury dental fillings as well?

Have any Alzheimer's studies been carried out on countries that eat alot of fish? Tuna/Salmon particularly.

[Number79]

Have any Alzheimer's studies been carried out on countries that eat alot of fish? Tuna/Salmon particularly.

Why tuna/salmon?

[MOP]

Why tuna/salmon?

Mercury content.

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

So you'd rather live longer but suffer from a horrible degenerative disease that could be prevented?

Rubella on foetuses, SSPE after measles, Polio, Diphtheria, Tetanus, all pretty bad.

Thiomersal looks like it's being phased out as other adjuvants become available.

[bugged bunny]

Legal immunity set for swine flu vaccine makers

By MIKE STOBBE (AP) – 15 hours ago

ATLANTA — The last time the government embarked on a major vaccine campaign against a new swine flu, thousands filed claims contending they suffered side effects from the shots. This time, the government has already taken steps to head that off.

Vaccine makers and federal officials will be immune from lawsuits that result from any new swine flu vaccine, under a document signed by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, government health officials said Friday.

Click here to read the rest of the article:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...K1az6wD99GH8580

[Guest happy?]

Mercury content.

Don't think he is - he's shuffled off this mortal coil.

[interestrateripoff]

Good question. I guess other countries would like to have it. I wonder if it is a first come first served basis. ie. We got our order in first.

Some nations won't be able to afford it, I wonder what the cost would be for 6bn vaccinations? And then the staff to administer them.

Is the US govt planning to do the same?

[Number79]

Mercury content.

I had gathered that but why tuna/salmon specifically as opposed to anything else in the sea?

[Johnny Storm]

Legal immunity set for swine flu vaccine makers

Vaccine makers and federal officials will be immune from lawsuits that result from any new swine flu vaccine, under a document signed by Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, government health officials said Friday.

But its totally safe, why would they need that?? hahahaha