I Can't Work Out How Btl Makes Economical Sense

[Redcellar]

seen that one, waiting for Inside Track III ( Inside)

Inside Track III (Inside) actually has a twist at the end. They end up 'outside' on the street in a cardboard box. Awesome finish I would never have guessed. Untypical for an American film that must always have a warm and fuzzy ending.

Then there's Inside Track XXI - set in the year 2054 it's the same as the other 20 really, just a futuristic setting with the same twits being lulled into the 'house of doom' to be eaten by the evil bankers. That was a straight to TV release but seems most people forgot the other 20 itterations that were exactly the same and still invested in the price of a ticket to experience the thrills and spills. Seems peoples memories are like goldfish and Darwin's theory of evolution long ago stopped applying to the human race with the weakest simply dying off.

[Shao Kahn]

BTL is about power

thats where the profit lies

Evening all,

Agreed - in many instances, but not all.

Like the subject itself, my view on all of this is highly speculative, but in my opinion BTL landlordism often - but by no means not always of course - attracts a certain type of individual who is deeply sociopathic and subconsciously sadistic - the same creed of shitty individual who seem to always progress to middle-management roles - jobs that do nothing useful but offer ample opportunity to demean and belittle those below that threshold who actually do the "work", whatever that may entail.

I have no problem with student BTL as long as it doesn't take decent family property. I have no problem with commercial BTL, e.g office, warehouse premises etc. I do have a big problem with BTL on a mortgage that targets residential property. Another big problem is the crap tenancy laws we have over here.

To answer the O.P, BTL can be very attractive if you look at it with regard to yields. It was attractive when capital gains were high as well. I/O mortgages offer a degree of flexibility although I'd argue that these are only good if you have a yield north of 10%. But obviously I/O has many pitfalls as well if you can't sell above the principle sum originally taken out.

But this is not to excuse, or criticise it. I don't like residential BTL due to the many moral and social adverse affects it has.

Any thoughts?

[Shao Kahn]

Where the f*ck do you live????????

Where I live, 80K to 100K one bed flats rent for between £400 and £500 per month. 2 bed flats rent for £800-ish. 3 bed semi/terrace sell for between 150K and 200K, and rent for between £800 and £1200. Proper detached houses can rent for as little as £1000, and as much as £3500.

Where you live is obviously some manky Caledonian shithole, the same as your mouth. Silly div! We don't all live in some kind of ugly oil-fuelled bubblefied cesspit like Aberdeen, doing *****y "managerial" jobs that offer no use or hope to anybody in modern life, you know!

Edited May 16, 2009 by Shao Kahn

[m4rk]

That's hilariously funny. I'm so glad that I asked this question.

Just to let you know that I don't rent out properties. I also own my properties but I don't have a mortgage doing so.

I get the bit about the rent paying the mortgage or just about paying the mortgage. Having said that where I live £300000 properties are being let out for about £700 per month and so those figures don't quite add up even at low interest rates. Cheaper properties, say £180000, still only bring a rent of about £400 per month. But there is also all those other costs. I'm sorry but I'm not sure that these landlords are capable of basic accounting principles. Even in good (normal) times I still can't see how it makes economical sense.

Where the f*ck do you live????????

Where I live, 80K to 100K one bed flats rent for between £400 and £500 per month. 2 bed flats rent for £800-ish. 3 bed semi/terrace sell for between 150K and 200K, and rent for between £800 and £1200. Proper detached houses can rent for as little as £1000, and as much as £3500.

you can charge your legolanders whatever you like in your front room. have you got the hospital yet...i fear riots in front of the fireplace.

unfortunitly he's right. thats the going rate for rents up here. so much so flats at 100k actually make sense to btl as youd get 700 ish a month.

problem is all the young sub 30 oilies up here (aberdeen) bought up flats to let out and all the ones over have had their huge houses paid off through inflation and previosu booms and busts. everone else has to pay the premium extra because i believe our average house price is cira 180k

[Jester]

Where the f*ck do you live????????

Where I live, 80K to 100K one bed flats rent for between £400 and £500 per month. 2 bed flats rent for £800-ish. 3 bed semi/terrace sell for between 150K and 200K, and rent for between £800 and £1200. Proper detached houses can rent for as little as £1000, and as much as £3500.

4 bed detached £750 overpriced in my opinion. Personally I would sell it. But hey what do I know?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-ren...summary23613263

[Redcellar]

4 bed detached £750 overpriced in my opinion. Personally I would sell it. But hey what do I know?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-ren...summary23613263

A) More than most the other numpties out there I would say.

[m4rk]

4 bed detached £750 overpriced in my opinion. Personally I would sell it. But hey what do I know?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-ren...summary23613263

that would go for at least 1300-1500 up here. but thats leceister "innit"

[HAMISH_MCTAVISH]

unfortunitly he's right. thats the going rate for rents up here. so much so flats at 100k actually make sense to btl as youd get 700 ish a month.

In general terms, renting in Aberdeen is broadly similar to, and often more expensive than, a full repayment mortgage.

problem is all the young sub 30 oilies up here (aberdeen) bought up flats to let out and all the ones over have had their huge houses paid off through inflation and previosu booms and busts. everone else has to pay the premium extra because i believe our average house price is cira 180k

Not quite. The issue is a shortage of properties to rent, a simple supply/demand imbalance, combined with a high local average income. More BTL's would push down rental prices, but push up house prices, as has been seen elsewhere.

[HAMISH_MCTAVISH]

that would go for at least 1300-1500 up here. but thats leceister "innit"

And probably cost a lot less to buy up here as well.

[Injin]

In general terms, renting in Aberdeen is broadly similar to, and often more expensive than, a full repayment mortgage.

Not quite. The issue is a shortage of properties to rent, a simple supply/demand imbalance, combined with a high local average income. More BTL's would push down rental prices, but push up house prices, as has been seen elsewhere.

That's not the issue.

The issue is that unused land is unobtainable because men with guns will stop anyone who tries to make use of it for shelter.

BTL folks aren't evil, they are profiting from the evil of others. Remoras to a shark.

[Jester]

Renting out property never has been much of a money earner. Everyone on here knows that. It was always only about the capital gain. Now thats a loss anybody who gets into it now is crazy. Wait until property is at rock bottom to get back in. In the meantime let the taxpayer pay for the houses for the 5 million, and save your money.

Ahhhhhh ok thanks for that.

Even taking into consideration the capital gain it really was never much of an earner if ever.

It's a case of don't give up your day job.

[Shao Kahn]

That's not the issue.

The issue is that unused land is unobtainable because men with guns will stop anyone who tries to make use of it for shelter.

BTL folks aren't evil, they are profiting from the evil of others. Remoras to a shark.

How do you mean? Is it in terms of statism enabling it? If that's the case surely there's a case to be made for greater and lesser evils? If there is such a thing, even?

Don't understand your argument - explain please?

[Injin]

How do you mean? Is it in terms of statism enabling it? If that's the case surely there's a case to be made for greater and lesser evils? If there is such a thing, even?

Don't understand your argument - explain please?

That#'s because I posted thsi in thw wrong thread.

Apologies.

[weebag]

That's not the issue.

The issue is that unused land is unobtainable because men with guns will stop anyone who tries to make use of it for shelter.

BTL folks aren't evil, they are profiting from the evil of others. Remoras to a shark.

Oh no, not 'the men with guns' again

[Injin]

Oh no, not 'the men with guns' again

Simple question.

There is plenty of open unused land all over the UK.

Why don't people simply build on it?

[tomandlu]

That#'s because I posted thsi in thw wrong thread.

Apologies.

To be honest, it probably made as much sense here as it would in any other thread. Bit like that guy from "Being There".

[Redcellar]

Oh no, not 'the men with guns' again

When someone mentions Hitler then it's all over. Oh no, I just did, guess that's the end of that discussion then.

[Jester]

Evening all,

Agreed - in many instances, but not all.

Like the subject itself, my view on all of this is highly speculative, but in my opinion BTL landlordism often - but by no means not always of course - attracts a certain type of individual who is deeply sociopathic and subconsciously sadistic - the same creed of shitty individual who seem to always progress to middle-management roles - jobs that do nothing useful but offer ample opportunity to demean and belittle those below that threshold who actually do the "work", whatever that may entail.

I have no problem with student BTL as long as it doesn't take decent family property. I have no problem with commercial BTL, e.g office, warehouse premises etc. I do have a big problem with BTL on a mortgage that targets residential property. Another big problem is the crap tenancy laws we have over here.

To answer the O.P, BTL can be very attractive if you look at it with regard to yields. It was attractive when capital gains were high as well. I/O mortgages offer a degree of flexibility although I'd argue that these are only good if you have a yield north of 10%. But obviously I/O has many pitfalls as well if you can't sell above the principle sum originally taken out.

But this is not to excuse, or criticise it. I don't like residential BTL due to the many moral and social adverse affects it has.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts? For what they are worth are you can't make much money out of BTL if you have a mortgage on the property and if you don't do the maintenance yourself. it's neither an income or a pension.

BTL have kept house prices artificially high.

And housing benefit keeps rents artificially high.

The situation now appears that the housing bubble has burst for sales. But also people aren't prepared to rent properties at the higher rental prices.

[Redcellar]

My thoughts? For what they are worth are you can't make much money out of BTL if you have a mortgage on the property and if you don't do the maintenance yourself. it's neither an income or a pension.

BTL have kept house prices artificially high.

And housing benefit keeps rents artificially high.

The situation now appears that the housing bubble has burst for sales. But also people aren't prepared to rent properties at the higher rental prices.

True now. But when house prices were increasing by double digits, then even getting a large mortgage on a property would mean you could make £10K + a year, when you came to sell. The rental bit was simply to pay off the mortgage payments. Plus tax benefits on doing this were introduced for pensions, so you made more again, and also some for tax relief on the first chunk of rents you charged. If you worked the system then you would have been well off in those days.

[HAMISH_MCTAVISH]

My thoughts? For what they are worth are you can't make much money out of BTL if you have a mortgage on the property and if you don't do the maintenance yourself. it's neither an income or a pension.

I would have thought that if you can buy in an area where rents more or less cover the mortgage payments, then even without HPI, you'll still end up owning an asset free and clear 25 years later, that you have paid very little for (maintenance and a few void periods). At which point you can sell, or the rent becomes yours to keep instead of paying the mortgage with.

Isn't that the point?

[Prof]

Simple question.

There is plenty of open unused land all over the UK.

Why don't people simply build on it?

A question I have often asked, myself.

Having seen what MPs have been getting up to (making money out of property that has been subsidised by the taxpayer, apparently), I am not suprised that there`s a "shortage of land to build on", but no real shortage of land to build on.

[GrillsBears]

I would have thought that if you can buy in an area where rents more or less cover the mortgage payments, then even without HPI, you'll still end up owning an asset free and clear 25 years later, that you have paid very little for (maintenance and a few void periods). At which point you can sell, or the rent becomes yours to keep instead of paying the mortgage with.

Isn't that the point?

Only because the only leverage allowed in boom times to the proletariat is BTL.

We'd all be a lot ******ing better off if people invested in productive industry instead of trying to impoverish their fellows.

[Jester]

I would have thought that if you can buy in an area where rents more or less cover the mortgage payments, then even without HPI, you'll still end up owning an asset free and clear 25 years later, that you have paid very little for (maintenance and a few void periods). At which point you can sell, or the rent becomes yours to keep instead of paying the mortgage with.

Isn't that the point?

No, I don't think so, because there are easier (and more ethical) ways of making more money.

[live in hope]

Ahhhhhh ok thanks for that.

Even taking into consideration the capital gain it really was never much of an earner if ever.

It's a case of don't give up your day job.

Not in a short term way. But some who are smart were able to, and did give up their day jobs.

[Jester]

Not in a short term way. But some who are smart were able to, and did give up their day jobs.

Are you sure about that?

The figures really don't add up to me.

As I keep on saying possibly if you DON'T have a mortgage on the property and you do the maintenance etc yourself.