19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Flipper, flipper, faster than lightning... I saw 2 adjoining 4-bed semis for sale earlier in the year. I lol'd because one was asking 550 and the other 650. The 650 was (a bit) nicer but the 550 house plus 100 improvements would have made far more sense. This is the 650 house, still for sale: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-29332414.html So I saw the "for sale" sign disappear from the 550 house, scaffold go up, work on the roof and loads of workmen over the autumn. My first thought, not having seen a sold board, was that they had taken it off the market to do something major (it was a lot cheaper than next door, maybe the roof was going to fall in) and then re-market the house. Well, the 550 house wasn't taken off the market , accord to Zoopla it sold for 500k on 2nd Sept http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/49-westgate/hale/altrincham/wa15-9ba/25442755 link to previous marketing: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/49-westgate/hale/altrincham/wa15-9ba/15964537 And now it is back for sale. I won't spoil the surprise but sold on 2nd Sept for 500k and put back on the market on November 30th : http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-21037713.html I'm 99.99% sure this is the same house to the extent of doing a drive by this morning to check the house numbers although for some reason, zoopla is not showing the new listing yet. Sold for 655 after initially asking 750 amd dropping to 715 http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/49-westgate/hale/altrincham/wa15-9ba/25442755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Sold for 655 after initially asking 750 amd dropping to 715 http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/49-westgate/hale/altrincham/wa15-9ba/25442755 So they probably spent 30-40 doing it up, add on another 20 to cover fees, stamp etc....leaves 90-100k profit. It's not cheered me up that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 So they probably spent 30-40 doing it up, add on another 20 to cover fees, stamp etc....leaves 90-100k profit. It's not cheered me up that. It's testing my memory but I think it might have cost a bit more. Some loft work and looks like a rear extension. Also at the last minute, the front was double glazed, condition of sale? 20k covers no fees, only the stamp duty on the original purchase, how much old Gas Hal or B'fords charge? 1% would be £6.5 k Would 10% be closer to the mark on profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 It's testing my memory but I think it might have cost a bit more. Some loft work and looks like a rear extension. Also at the last minute, the front was double glazed, condition of sale? 20k covers no fees, only the stamp duty on the original purchase, how much old Gas Hal or B'fords charge? 1% would be £6.5 k Would 10% be closer to the mark on profit? I was thinking about buying fees & stamp within that 20k, but you're quite right - 25k+ inc. selling. 40k doing it up would allow a refurb including double-glazing - I've only recently priced up the works (inc. electrics, pluming, CHS, double glazing) on a larger house. But if they've extended and done the loft then that's a completely different picture of course. Would make me feel a bit better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I was thinking about buying fees & stamp within that 20k, but you're quite right - 25k+ inc. selling. 40k doing it up would allow a refurb including double-glazing - I've only recently priced up the works (inc. electrics, pluming, CHS, double glazing) on a larger house. But if they've extended and done the loft then that's a completely different picture of course. Would make me feel a bit better! Seriously, look at the jun 11 ad on zoopla and the current RM Gas Hal sold listing. Knocked down a small conservatory and replaced with full width extension, shallow admittedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Didn't this house make an appearance on these boards a while back? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38654318.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Didn't this house make an appearance on these boards a while back? http://www.rightmove...y-38654318.html Hey thanks M50 for posting that new listing up here. Nice to see it back with a chunky amount knocked off the previous crazy asking price, and it's a guide price too. The seller slowly being forced to accept some reality. I should really check if they're also seeking to rent it out again. http://www.rightmove...y-28471483.html http://www.housepric...dpost&p=2890695 Park Lane Estates didn't find any buyer to step in and meet any ridiculous asking price the seller needed in this example. Using a professional estate agent like Park Lane to market your property is very important and when they find you that all-important buyer at the price you need At Park Lane Estates they believe they are second to none when it comes to achieving the best price. I'm not overly concerned about the occasional flip house with stupid buyer. Girl I know down South paid £765K for a house at the end of last year, which a builder had bought for £380K just 14 months earlier from an elderly couple. They modernised all the old dated rooms, new extension, bling kitchen. My old school friend girl pregnant and really wanting a magazine family home. Paid for largely by an inheritance she'd received but probably with a mortgage as well. That's her capital gone. Exchequer gets a stamp duty cut twice over to spend away, and after costs the developers probably share profits between them (taxed as income I presume rather than capital gain with the cg tax). More chance of their profit being wasted or frittered on stuff, if not invested again but risk of being caught out on the next one. I think there are too few such buyers around, willing and able to pay any price. Just the occasional buyer in that position who feels under pressure and 'must have' against other sellers struggling to find buyers. Edited July 13, 2012 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) All grist for the mill. My urbane house is back and there's a reduction on Queens Road thats starting to ask questions. Viewed it when it was up for sale/rent last year. Don't expect it to stay long at 250k. I think there is some sort of realisation happening. Edited July 13, 2012 by SeeYouNextTuesday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Viewed it when it was up for sale/rent last year. Don't expect it to stay long at 250k. I think there is some sort of realisation happening. I hope so about realisation. There are hints of it. Think I can see which house you're referring to. In 2008 I held the view asking prices for houses such as this one would slide down to £250K. It sold for £350K twelve months ago, which now, crazily, looks like value against asking prices of many other houses in today's market, after so many billions of stimulus, including pressure on banks to lend. Thought what looks like many more reluctant landlords might help bring down prices, as they gradually get found out on what tenants can afford, but they've plodded on for ages and not too much pressure there yet. (And elderly downsizers) http://www.zoopla.co...6871009?image=0 Then we've got other sellers in this zombified market seeking new peak asking prices and seemingly getting buyers http://www.rightmove...y-37962635.html Edited July 13, 2012 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I hope so about realisation. There are hints of it. Think I can see which house you're referring to. In 2008 I held the view asking prices for houses such as this one would slide down to £250K. It sold for £350K twelve months ago, which now, crazily, looks like value against asking prices of many other houses in today's market, after so many billions of stimulus, including pressure on banks to lend. Thought what looks like many more reluctant landlords might help bring down prices, as they gradually get found out on what tenants can afford, but they've plodded on for ages and not too much pressure there yet. (And elderly downsizers) http://www.zoopla.co...6871009?image=0 Then we've got other sellers in this zombified market seeking new peak asking prices and seemingly getting buyers http://www.rightmove...y-37962635.html I think I'll be lucky to last till Xmas '13 without buying so the sooner the better for vendor realisation. Realistically for me, need 10% off asking prices to make it worthwhile but 20% off would be where I'd be relatively happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I think I'll be lucky to last till Xmas '13 without buying so the sooner the better for vendor realisation. Realistically for me, need 10% off asking prices to make it worthwhile but 20% off would be where I'd be relatively happy. Can imagine some of what your situation is might be. Wary of saying the wrong thing, but you suggested in February 2011 your wife really wanted to buy before March just gone. I'm familiar with the strains and stresses that can be involved when you're renting and waiting to buy as a couple, and suspect it is more so when you already have young children. You identified prices beginning to firm back up mid/late 2009 iirc, before I did, and it's been a real test for those renting waiting for better purchase value since then, with selling prices reaching much higher new peaks on 2006/07 prices in many instances. That's not even limited to Hale. Cheadle Hulme, Bramhall, Heaton Chapel, Didsbury and many other areas. You will know how best to keep things as happy as possible in your situation as you try and wait for better value. I know longer can guess what the trigger for that better value might be, most likely a combination of things, if it's to come suddenly as I suspect it might do (for more vendors being amenable to accepting an offer in the 10-20% range), and not play out over many years. Others I know in similar situations to yours are treating themselves. Not tapping into their deposit fund, but no longer struggling to grow it at the rate they were before. Clothes, meals out and holidays. I actually prefer to see them do this rather than buy now in this market. Actually the same spending is true for a couple of people I know in deep negative equity in north Manchester. Their mortgage repayments have fallen very low and they're always spending, including holidays and brand new luxury cars on lease or hp. Perhaps it takes their minds of their negative equity situation or they expect always to enjoy good mortgage deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 Word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 I think I'll be lucky to last till Xmas '13 without buying so the sooner the better for vendor realisation. Realistically for me, need 10% off asking prices to make it worthwhile but 20% off would be where I'd be relatively happy. Similar boat. We've signed another 6 month AST but we're not going to rent forever. If prices take another 2, 3 , 5 or 10 years to fall nominally properly, then we won't be the ones taking advantage. With another baby and my wife unhappy at being unable to decorate a nursery for a second time etc (our landlord is inflexible), money isn't everything and it's not fair of me to hold back forever. I'm not a prophet and my predictions on prices could well turn out to be wrong, so (especially given our savings have been earned 50/50) it's unreasonable/arrogant of me to expect to be trusted on those predictions for year on year. I'm in a slightly better position than some however, as we can buy a comfortable place outright, so the question is one of 'value for money' rather than 'level of debt taken on', which are quite different considerations. I don't feel especially greedy - if a chunk of houses on my saved list would drop by 10%, and take an offer of 5-10% below that (i.e. 15-20% below current asking) then I'd buy. I'm not holding out for 30-40% nominal falls in asking from now, as by and large, in the areas we're looking, I don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It seems a realistic aspiration for finding a seller likely to soon take an offer of 15%-20% below what they're currently on the market at, especially in the price range of houses I've seen you link to M50, imo. Nomadd your 'surplus to requirements' house has seen a small cut in asking price. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36665495.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 It seems a realistic aspiration for finding a seller likely to soon take an offer of 15%-20% below what they're currently on the market at, especially in the price range of houses I've seen you link to M50, imo. Agree with this - up to a point. I think it depends on how realistically the property is priced at present. I have a family member who completes on a property in South Manchester next Friday; it was chopped ~12%+ from peak about a year ago, and after a bit of haggling they accepted an offer of a further 10% off that. That family member also had to drastically reduce the price of their place in order to sell. And sentiment at the moment seems more negative going forward than ever. Note, however, that both properties involved are four bedroom detached places, though. Nomadd your 'surplus to requirements' house has seen a small cut in asking price. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36665495.html Getting there. But I'll hold on to the chequebook just a little while longer! An excellent BTL if ever I saw one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViciousChicken Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Similar boat. We've signed another 6 month AST but we're not going to rent forever. If prices take another 2, 3 , 5 or 10 years to fall nominally properly, then we won't be the ones taking advantage. With another baby and my wife unhappy at being unable to decorate a nursery for a second time etc (our landlord is inflexible), money isn't everything and it's not fair of me to hold back forever. I'm not a prophet and my predictions on prices could well turn out to be wrong, so (especially given our savings have been earned 50/50) it's unreasonable/arrogant of me to expect to be trusted on those predictions for year on year. This is a big problem- the lack of security for private renters in this country puts people over a barrel. The flexibility isn't such a bad gig when you're young free and single- you can still come unstuck but for many it's an outright advantage. But once you have kids or some other particular reason why you need to be more settled, it's like the whole system is designed to kick you into buying before you might otherwise do so. People absolutely do get pressured into buying because of inflexibility in the private rental market. I believe it's worse in the south east and London, everything housing related in that region seems to be worse than elsewhere. But it's not great up north either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I believe it's worse in the south east and London, everything housing related in that region seems to be worse than elsewhere. But it's not great up north either! I rent a place in London, due to work commitments. I'm lucky to get it very cheap. The typical rental price for a small 3 bed semi in a location similar to Timperley down here is nearly £2k per month. And as for buying... The 3 bed semi four doors away from me has been extended to 4 beds and just put back on the market: for £715k. So although I agree with your point about younger couples with young kids being forced to buy, I question how many can stretch to a £715k mortgage for an extended 3/4 bed semi in a so-so area? It's truly insane. If you jump across the park and into the N21 postcode for decent Primary Schools and daycare, then the semis can hit nearly £1 million on a decent road. Move to a "posh" bit of London, and £1 million would leave you looking like a pauper. It may be grim "oop North" at the moment, but it's nowhere near as grim as it is "darn Sarf." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchester50 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 And reduced again... http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37397180.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monks Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 And reduced again... http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37397180.html Greedy chancers. To come from £460k (April) to £405k (July) shows either the penny has dropped or there is a big cash flow problem in their "property development" business. Drive past it everyday on the way to work and watched the refurbishment with great anticipation. Aside from the odd location (you would be expecting a speeding motorist to crash through your lounge window each month), unfortunately they have got the frontage very, very wrong for Hale. The front door especially looks cheap and about 20 years out of date. Backyard is laughable. In the current market, this is "worth" (or would sell) for about £300k, maybe £320k if the buyer was especially stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 £300K-£320K wouldn't leave the developer much of a return I wouldn't have thought, when bought for £245K in 2010, after their works and other costs. I agree with you about its 'current' value, even in the dying days of this reinflated market. I'm exceptionally fussy about external doors, and have a big budget set aside for doors, if I can buy a home in the price range I have in mind. Only problem being no manufacturer offers what I want. Even the blingified residential steel doors manufacturers at thousands of pounds don't have internal locks you can engage to prevent anyone opening the door if they've gotten hold of spare keys. Although I have maintenance concerns about those in the long run. And I don't want wood. You wouldn't keep your valuables in a wooden safe. Seeing as I don't own a home yet, I can hope composite door manufacturers will improve on their current Secure By Design maximum spec. For me you need two locks on a door, one cylinder and one other, but with the ability to engage bolts separately from inside, when you lock up at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (you would be expecting a speeding motorist to crash through your lounge window each month) glad I'm not the only one thinking that. Have to admit I don't remember the refurb work. Mind the scammers vans that seem continually parked along the road now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monks Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 glad I'm not the only one thinking that. Have to admit I don't remember the refurb work. Mind the scammers vans that seem continually parked along the road now. All in the name of accident prevention of course (even though they park 200m away from the real problem bend, on a relatively straight, wide, almost non residential patch, just off the fast dual carriageway...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadd Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 And reduced again... http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-37397180.html This just got a £35k cut: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-22557231.html?premiumA=true Nicer property on the same road came on last year about £760-770k if I remember rightly. Stupidly overpriced (finally went for £685k.) So to see the one above come on 3 months ago at £800k was laughable. The "almost impossible to sell bracket" of £1 million+ from last year has continued to edge it's way down to £800k now. Going to be an interesting 12 months, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Greedy chancers. To come from £460k (April) to £405k (July) shows either the penny has dropped or there is a big cash flow problem in their "property development" business. Drive past it everyday on the way to work and watched the refurbishment with great anticipation. Aside from the odd location (you would be expecting a speeding motorist to crash through your lounge window each month), unfortunately they have got the frontage very, very wrong for Hale. The front door especially looks cheap and about 20 years out of date. Backyard is laughable. In the current market, this is "worth" (or would sell) for about £300k, maybe £320k if the buyer was especially stupid. Agree. Has an almost 'student bedsit' look to it. Not a fan at all of basement kitchen conversions or low ceilings. The redeeming feature is the school catchment area, which I would imagine will be what eventually sells it. That bend is frequently in the papers for 'crashes'. I think they put down an anti-skid surface not long ago. Nightmare junction in the morning with school traffic going down Grange Road and there's a bus stop right outside. Btw, watch out for mobile speed traps further along Park Road towards the lights. I speak from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) This just got a £35k cut: http://www.rightmove...l?premiumA=true Nicer property on the same road came on last year about £760-770k if I remember rightly. Stupidly overpriced (finally went for £685k.) So to see the one above come on 3 months ago at £800k was laughable. The "almost impossible to sell bracket" of £1 million+ from last year has continued to edge it's way down to £800k now. Going to be an interesting 12 months, that's for sure. Another chancer? It was bought for £580,000 just 18 months ago. (Edit: sorry I originally put £510K, when it was actually £580K) http://www.rightmove...country=england I'm so looking forward to the prospect of an increase in supply this year. A whole combination of things seem to be coming together to bring some order back to this market and shake out many sellers who've been holding the market to hostage with their high prices, and occasionally achieving it. The latest GDP figures are going to cause many a chancer some concern, and make buyers wary. This came to market three days ago (link below), and it asks a lot of comparative value questions of the Bowdon house above, just a few metres away. Perhaps even why they've been pressured into just reducing the asking price. http://www.rightmove...y-23643477.html Edited July 26, 2012 by Venger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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