FTB2B

Yes indeed, but you're quite a step back from Tony's metaphysics there. Not sure about that. There seemed a deep-rooted assumption that the flood of Polish workers would continue to increase demand quicker than 'home' builders could supply. Isn't it funny how they go on about the media 'making up' the term 'credit crunch'? I distinctly remember George Soros warning about it in his book 'The Crisis of Global Capitalism', and detailing a series of ideas to protect against them. Come to think of it, he went on about 'reflexive points' - where reality would forcibly assert itself upon asset valuations that had deviated too far from any grounded assessment due to all the bullish irrational exuberance, as going hand-in-hand with a credit crunch. Shame we had the likes of Krusty cheerleading people's delusions all the way...

Oh FFS... that would mean we'd be experiencing the thoughtform "house prices only ever go up!". Well, that didn't work - perhaps a revaluation of that idea is in order. http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-T...mes-from-Others Well... at least there was some alignment between the two...

The problem was that Thatcher only cut out the dead wood. Withdrawing subsidy from that which was ripe for destruction was the correct thing to do, but what she should have done was to take a holistic view of the economic opportunities available and moved subsidy into education to re-skill the miners/ship-builders/etc to have a labour force poised for the new companies she could have stimulated into existence by targeted tax breaks. Narrow view destroyed a generation. What a dipsh1t.

How about, they cut rates to stop our subprime getting out of control, devalue the pound, but close down all the deliberate inefficiencies in the way tax money is spent to allow a huge reduction in our tax bills so we can defer pay rises but are nominally better off to counteract the further price inflation that devaluation will import, and then we'll have devalued our debts to f*ck all so we can have a second consumer boom to keep the global economy ticking over and nicely subservient as if we'd just forged a new empire... ...sigh, sorry, too much to drink... (celebrating 'golden' tuesday you see...)

Never mind, just saw the BBC have managed to dig some figures out - http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7199552.stm

Hey, does anyone know where I can find the data on daily stock movements that someone posted while back? I'm thinking the one that showed the range of +/- movements and their frequency. Just curious as to where today fits in the scheme of things from the usual false alerts (-2 to -3%) to the real black days of yore...

not well versed in such matters, what's wrist size got to do with packing fudge?

Bit harsh. Anyway, isn't this flood of migrant labour to depress wages and debt/inflation to devalue sterling all about bringing ourselves into equilibrium with global economies? I mean, if China/India/Russia all have super-rich and cheap labour, don't we need to align with that to have any hope in the next century? I kind of see it as biting the bullet, much as all the pain endured from Thatcher prepared us for Europe.

Given the lack of response, I guess your finger is NOT on the pulse of god slot trends actually! Maybe if it was also parody instead of actual verses...

Yeah, alright... In the name of Merryn, most beneficient, most merciful. BTLers [2.96] And you will most certainly find them the greediest of men for life (greedier) than even those who are polytheists; every one of them loves that he should be granted a life of a thousand years, and his being granted a long life will in no way remove him further off from the chastisement, and Allah sees what they do. [33.27] And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things. [3.181] Allah has certainly heard the saying of those who said: Surely Allah is poor and we are rich. I will record what they say, and their killing the prophets unjustly, and I will say: Taste the chastisement of burning. [26.88] The day on which property will not avail, nor sons [61.11] You shall believe in Allah and His Apostle, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives; that is better for you, did you but know! [2.155] And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient, [70.25] For him who begs and for him who is denied (good) [4.10] (As for) those who swallow the property of the orphans unjustly, surely they only swallow fire into their bellies and they shall enter burning fire. Bankers [56.66] Surely we are burdened with debt: [2.275] Those who swallow down usury cannot arise except as one whom Shaitan has prostrated by (his) touch does rise. That is because they say, trading is only like usury; and Allah has allowed trading and forbidden usury. To whomsoever then the admonition has come from his Lord, then he desists, he shall have what has already passed, and his affair is in the hands of Allah; and whoever returns (to it)-- these arc the inmates of the fire; they shall abide in it. [3.130] O you who believe! do not devour usury, making it double and redouble, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, that you may be successful. [23.4] And who are givers of poor-rate, [52.40] Or do you ask them for a reward, so that they are overburdened by a debt? [9.121] Nor do they spend anything that may be spent, small or great, nor do they traverse a valley, but it is written down to their credit, that Allah may reward them with the best of what they have done. [2.280] And if (the debtor) is in straitness, then let there be postponement until (he is in) ease; and that you remit (it) as alms is better for you, if you knew. [90.13] (It is) the setting free of a slave, [30.39] And whatever you lay out as usury, so that it may increase in the property of men, it shall not increase with Allah; and whatever you give in charity, desiring Allah's pleasure-- it is these (persons) that shall get manifold. [4.56] (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. Second homes [24.29] It is no sin in you that you enter uninhabited houses wherein you have your necessaries; and Allah knows what you do openly and what you hide. [51.19] And in their property was a portion due to him who begs and to him who is denied (good). [27.52] So those are their houses fallen down because they were unjust, most surely there is a sign in this for a people who know. [9.103] Take alms out of their property, you would cleanse them and purify them thereby, and pray for them; surely your prayer is a relief to them; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Again the inflation cure is called upon... So I've got a car loan and a student loan, paying the first off at great haste (don't want to pay too much interest, but want to build up a credit history) and WAS wondering if I should then start to kill the student loan straight away (being that I discovered the motherf*ckers linked it to RPI not CPI) or start saving for a deposit into a high interest (i.e. >RPI) account. The choice seems pretty damn clear now really doesn't it ?!

Indeed. Won't be long before we've drained all the north sea and Scotland can have its independence too! I understand that it's not as clean as they'd like, but still cleaner than the station it would replace. Something to do with not being ready to pump the CO2 into old oil field just just. Still, nearly drained the north sea, can soon get those pipes utilised in the opposite direction eh?

Yeah, actually I have enough of a problem with governments having these things already to want every fundamentalist nutcase to have that sort of power. I can't stop the nutter from killing us all by doing it first. At least of governmental type structure could be denied funding to go to war. They do know. It was in the press People are bothered - ITER is in progress. All kinds of material science and other research WILL benefit industry in the long run. But industry is unable to take a long term view to fund it itself. Government has had to act instead. The cancelled project represents a loss to future industry, yet apparently the market is impotent to compensate this loss.

Too true - you seen that documentary 'Corporation'? Covered lot's on this, excellent. I don't believe information is power. If both employers are c*nts then it does you no good. If not, the good employer gets so much labour banging at its door, it will soon become one. Anyway, competition will always drive labour down to the lowest standard possible, and technology used to dumb down the economy will always ensure that the supply aspect is in their favour. And, as pointed out before, if there is some level of skill involved, the cost of retraining and relocating goes against the individual.

Yeah, that sort of thing, or at least to have an alternative to pure victimhood if it just goes ahead. Compensation of a sort. But you can't do away with force. As in military. So to have a protectorate for the geographical area we'll need something that we choose to fund with tax or some other method. I they had the capital and it was worth investing in, surely they'd do it themselves? My point, which you so well avoid once again, is that the market can't do this and in fact doesn't - not for want of opportunity So we need some other institution to compensate for the inadequacies of the market - or to change the market.