Altrincham/hale/halebarns

[The Knimbies who say No]

Thanks for that info. Repos towards the higher end, although in the sticks.

If there's any rapport tactics it's more likely to work with sellers of higher end homes, but relying less on their generosity and more on the fact the market is in a vulnerable position. I suspect it won't be long till we see more repos at the mid to higher end in Hale and Bowdon.

Not in the area of interest to this thread, so apologies, but since you're talking about higher end repos, here's one on the Wirral with an offer of £295k which might be of interest as a general indicator:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23898543.html?premiumA=true

Last sold:

19th Jun 2002

13 Chester Road, Childer Thornton, Ellesmere Port CH66 1QE

Detached, Freehold, 4 Beds, 1 Baths, 1 Receps - Edit £262,000

Dunno if that offer will stick of course, but a few of these types of sales will leave plenty of people selling lesser stuff looking absurdly priced by comparison. A bit of top-down squeeze is very welcome.

[Venger]

Not in the area of interest to this thread, so apologies, but since you're talking about higher end repos, here's one on the Wirral with an offer of £295k which might be of interest as a general indicator:

http://www.rightmove...l?premiumA=true

Last sold:

19th Jun 2002

13 Chester Road, Childer Thornton, Ellesmere Port CH66 1QE

Detached, Freehold, 4 Beds, 1 Baths, 1 Receps - Edit £262,000

Dunno if that offer will stick of course, but a few of these types of sales will leave plenty of people selling lesser stuff looking absurdly priced by comparison. A bit of top-down squeeze is very welcome.

That's a good point. I've not yet noticed any repos listed with offers made for them that I thought were particularly good value against open market, but hopefully there is a growing divergence.

Looks like it's had some money spent on it (kitchen looks post-2002 design/bathroom) and they're in receipt of an offer for £295,000 vs the £262,000 sold price in 2002. That's encouraging.

It's a shame many such sales are not listed in Land Registry or other house price indexes.

Yes, top-down squeeze (bow-chicka wow wow). Whilst I expect the lower end to fall in all regional markets (such as that terrace in Hale), I expect the value gaps ever higher up the market to close further still.

I wouldn't want to be stuck with a small 2 bed terrace at reduced from £260,000 to £200K, if an an opportunity for a nice 3/4 bed house comes down from £400,000 to £250,000 for quick sale for a well positioned buyer. Where I suggest the shift is tilting to the fewer well positioned buyers and away from sellers.

I'm still reeling from people thinking supply levels are good.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Venger

[manchester50]

As we are talking about Cheshire villages outside the normal area, what do you think about this one?

It's academic because it went under offer like a hotcake immediately it came on in August for £550k

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38848523.html

....

I stumbled across the for sale sign after getting lost up Bickerton Hill again and searching for a pub. When I got home and checked the price I was surprised it was so much and more surprised it had sold so quickly.

I'm not very familiar with that area, but I have noticed that generally it tends to be a slightly cheaper spot (Malpas to the SW getting more expensive and Tarporley to the North being considerably more). I had seen that house, but contrary to you thought the asking price looked relatively reasonable! Tragically I must just be getting used to it through looking at pricier areas.

We aren't considering that specific area as it''s relatively isolated - although very pleasant countryside. Malpas is a reasonably equipped village as is Farndon - both are more appealing places in their own right than anywhere I can think of in South Manchester/East of the M6. Tarporley is the only other attractive place that way with much in the way of facilities (I discount Nantwich due to it's proximity to Crewe).

We want somewhere fairly small/rural but being able to get into Chester or Manchester fairly easily (20-30 mins) - around the Bickerton Hills area is pushing that.

[Democorruptcy]

I knew you would say the price looks reasonable. There's no hope for me.

AA has Brown Knowl to Chester 12 miles in 21 minutes.

[manchester50]

Not reasonable, just relative to asking prices in other areas I'm looking at. Yes, it's not too far (prob more like 30 mins into Chester), but it's the combo of having a 10 min drive for local shops (Malpas, Nantwich or Tarporley), bit of a hike for Manc and not great for work - I'm working the othe rside of Manchester for the next while and I'd be on about an hr 25 each way.

If the area is ok for friends/family/work then I do think there's more chance of a decent house for an ok price than some areas. And some pleasant walking round there.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I love kite flyers. What on earth are Jordan Fishstick smoking?

13 Oak Road bought in 2007 for £236K http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&street=OAK+ROAD&locality=HALE&town=ALTRINCHAM&cCode=EW&year=All&house_style=All&house_age=All&search_radius=15&outcode=WA15&incode=9JA&eastingToSearch=37730&northingToSearch=38720

4 years later (possibly with loft conversion) - Asking price of £335K

Look at it, http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17727597.html yuk

And unsurprisingly for rent at a not so cool grand a month

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-32692103.html

Wonder why there's no shots of the garden in this third of a million pound property?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-35739727.html

Also just clicked on the old rightmove link. JF claiming SSTC at the time

Edited September 13, 2012 by SeeYouNextTuesday

[R K]

I think you're looking at an exception there.

Their 1 and only buyer? The 1 buyer willing to meet them on the price they wanted. I suggest they'd have snapped the hand off any other buyer offering them quicker completion than a year, but it sounds like there weren't any prepared to meet them on the price they wanted.

Sounds like it was that buyer doing the sellers a favour to allow them to escape with the price they were seeking. Rather than the sellers having been charmed and having done the the buyer a favour by waiting.

Buyers have the power.

Obviously probate sales are different, but buyers there still have the power. They're just likely to find it easier to deal with executors who have less emotional attachment, don't want to hold onto a house for months/years, become landlords, and where a lower offer is more palatable when the proceeds of sale are sometimes being split 2 or 3 ways anyway. (I'll stick to my views on supply being lower than historic norms, but hopefully set to rise in coming months.)

No, their ONLY buyer. Way below asking.

You're contradicting yourself now I'm afraid Venger. Arguing supply is low and buyers have the power.

Supply is high, finance is tight. Perhaps the norms you refer to are the boom up to 2007 which wasn't the norm, but the exception. I'm talking about the 80s and 90s lows, which is the closest to where we are today. Perhaps your experience of the 80s market was different to mine, I don't know.

[R K]

Tarp's unusual for the North West. We've looked at places in about a dozen villages in west Cheshire and the area does appeal due to it being so much less built up than South Manc down to Wilmslow. It's further to drive to many faclities than the block south of Manc down to Macc, the non-electrified Manc to Chester trainline moves at a snail's pace, and the traffic can clog up (into Chester and towards the M56). However, if you want an attractive village of that sort of size with that level of facilities (inc decent primary & secondary) then there aren't many alternatives - at least in the NW ; when I lived in the South there were loads across Hamp/Surrey/Berkshire/Oxfordshire. The NW is better at good cities, tiny Cheshire villages and decent suburbs.

The main downer of the area for me is that I'd always be driving down to Crewe to pick the train up to London.

Out of interest, where do you live now?

Yes, the train access in Tarp is a major drawback (for me anyway). I've noticed nearly everybody needs and has a car. Families with kids over 17 tend to have a car for each child 'cause the public transport is so useless. There's a solitary bus into Tarvin/Chester and Nantwich but I think last bus is around 10.30/45 so hopeless for night out of town. There's a good Co-op in the village though for basics. I find most of the other private shops much of a muchness. Overpriced women's clothes shops etc. Pleasant enough high st but that's pretty much it. Very pleasant residents though, but a little too.....er......villagey for my tastes.

I'm in the Hale/Bowdon area. Un-recontructed suburbanite.

[R K]

What would you suggest then? I consider any position other than "I will be screwed by my buyer on selling" to be illogical, therefore I should screw my vendor. For a second (and why I asked) you almost sounded like you were trying to say don't go too low, you'll upset the stats which will make it harder to re-sell. And it's corollary, paying more now would get you more back in the future. Not what I would have expected you to say

Personal question, you have sprogs, did you rent when they were very small, did you live in a nice area at that time?

Not that I think for one second that this vendor would countenance 25% off their 2006 purchase price.

It was an observation more than anything. For instance, you've posted a link below with asking and previously sold prices, which was really what I was getting at. I hope you and yours manage to find the home you want in the area you want to be in and the price you think it acceptable to you. Go as low as you want, nothing much to do with me!

I suppose my wider point was that homes aren't homogenous. Whilst they exist in the context of a wider cyclical/secular market they are each distinct for all sorts of reasons. Unlike, say, shares in BP, which are homogenous and so the only issue when buying/selling share in BP is price in the context of the wider market. My BP shares are the same as anyone else's. (Rather wish I'd not mentioned it now )

I was lucky, I bought initially in a good area during the 80s recession, having saved like a maniac. Can't recall exactly but deposit must have been c. 45%.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Red Knight

[Nomadd]

An old friend takes another haircut: http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/17722179?utm_source=homesco&utm_medium=feeds

[Venger]

No, their ONLY buyer. Way below asking.

You're contradicting yourself now I'm afraid Venger. Arguing supply is low and buyers have the power.

Supply is high, finance is tight. Perhaps the norms you refer to are the boom up to 2007 which wasn't the norm, but the exception. I'm talking about the 80s and 90s lows, which is the closest to where we are today. Perhaps your experience of the 80s market was different to mine, I don't know.

My experience of the 80s was limited to childhood, although as a family we were nearly ruined by a bridging loan. 80s and 90s lows for supply? Specific years when supply was very low?

Supply is low but the power is tilting to the buyers regardless.

That is still compatible with my theory the market is very brittle despite low supply.

And prices subject to much deeper falls as more supply comes onto the market, and buyers get even more power. I hope to see more supply and don't care who knows it.

No matter which way you cut it, supply has been suppressed by low interest rates and QE. Supply is not what it would have been otherwise be without those easing tools. Easing policies which were never a factor in the 80s and 90s you rigidly talk about as though there is a set pattern or formula to the housing market.

I still expect more supply to come on as more owners of higher value homes become concerned with actually achieving high prices for their homes to downsize, and more panic to set in when they can't, resulting in some owners lowering prices, setting a new downward price trend. Overcoming low interest rates and QE.

I'm tempted to canvas opinions about the supply issue on the main forum.

[Nomadd]

My experience of the 80s was limited to childhood, although as a family we were nearly ruined by a bridging loan. 80s and 90s lows for supply? Specific years when supply was very low?

Supply is low but the power is tilting to the buyers regardless.

That is still compatible with my theory the market is very brittle despite low supply.

And prices subject to much deeper falls as more supply comes onto the market, and buyers get even more power. I hope to see more supply and don't care who knows it.

No matter which way you cut it, supply has been suppressed by low interest rates and QE. Supply is not what it would have been otherwise be without those easing tools. Easing policies which were never a factor in the 80s and 90s you rigidly talk about as though there is a set pattern or formula to the housing market.

I still expect more supply to come on as more owners of higher value homes become concerned with actually achieving high prices for their homes to downsize, and more panic to set in when they can't, resulting in some owners lowering prices, setting a new downward price trend. Overcoming low interest rates and QE.

I'm tempted to canvas opinions about the supply issue on the main forum.

If I search "Altrincham only" for "houses only" on Rightmove, it currently shows circa 900 properties for sale. That seems fairly sizable to me. TBH, I don't have any data to show how that compares to historic values. Could we find this anywhere?

I guess my earlier comments about supply were based on the number of properties I've seen listed in the last couple of weeks; seems like an upswing to me. I have a feeling these people have left it too late in the selling season, only now realising this and trying to get a sale before things turn even more negative. Whether this will lead to the market being "swamped" with properties over the next year or so is anyone's guess; even if it doesn't, the price chops noted in many of the properties discussed recently in this thread point to where the market is rapidly heading. And let's face it, the insane pricing levels were always going to fall at some point; I guess it's just taken a little longer to get going. My own personal view is that we won't see huge leaps in supply, but just a slow realisation by vendors and EAs that prices progressively have to be more realistic if a sale is ever going to be secured. I think we'll actually see less of these drop after drop after drop type price falls, replaced simply by much more sensible pricing from the outset.

I've currently got my eye on a couple of properties that hit the market at just under £800k, but dropped bit-by-bit to £650k before finally going SSTC. If they complete, I'd be interested to see the actual sold prices. Quite a few that are now listing in the £800-1 million bracket would have easily been hitting the market in 2006-7 for £1.25 to 1.5 million - the plots alone were pulling those sorts of prices in those crazy days. Chops of 25% plus don't seem to have helped here, yet I remember being laughed at by certain individuals who frequent this site for suggesting 30-35% falls from peak. It seems that many of these properties will only sell when those types of cuts are applied - and maybe even more going forward (and no, these aren't just "new" or "re-developments" as was once later suggested as a retraction excuse...)

From where I'm sitting, it's a steady-as-she-goes downward trend back to sanity. I don't think it will happen overnight, and I don't think the market will be flooded with properties; but then again niether of those things are needed. As ever, other's may disagree: I'm certainly not going to argue the point with people as I did in the past; if they can't accept reality, then we'll just agree to differ.

Ps. None of those points aimed at you, Venger, it's just that it was your post I attached to, my friend.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Nomadd

[Venger]

Friends who were very 'reluctant landlords' waited 12 months for their 1 and only buyer to sort out his personal life. He built a good rapport with them, they took him at his word, waited and exchanged last month. They're now buying in the area they want. So disagree with you completely I'm afraid.

Supply isn't low now. You want to compare it with, say, 1989. Complete nonsense I'm afraid, sorry.

No, their ONLY buyer. Way below asking.

You're contradicting yourself now I'm afraid Venger. Arguing supply is low and buyers have the power.

That story still doesn't fully add up for a would-be buyer having to try and establish rapport or build a special relationship with a seller in order to get a good price.

Sounds like your seller had no option, but to sell to a buyer in a position of power, for there were few other willing and able buyers around.

Unless you're asking me to believe a reluctant landlord, (keyword being reluctant and wanting to move on) took a big hit on their asking price, selling way below asking price, with a prolonged amount of time involved for the sale, simply because they liked the jib of someone who made them an offer.

That could be so on a higher value house, where the seller can afford to discount it to move on for whatever reasons, but I doubt it would work in the example of the Hale house SYNT posted up. Where they are accidental landlords and most likely in a financial bind, seeking survival, needing a certain price. Where there is already quite ferocious competition at that end of the market, and less need for a seller to discount much more than would be necessary on the open market.

Perhaps it's because I'm in no mood for trying to charm sellers. Too much effort when market fundementals are increasingly on the buyer side. Rapport only for probate sales or higher value home trying where they seller might see value reality in order to downsize. As a well positioned buyer I'm in a position of power and I know it; and more so with if we get improved supply (which we differ about).

[Venger]

If I search "Altrincham only" for "houses only" on Rightmove, it currently shows circa 900 properties for sale. That seems fairly sizable to me. TBH, I don't have any data to show how that compares to historic values. Could we find this anywhere?

I guess my earlier comments about supply were based on the number of properties I've seen listed in the last couple of weeks; seems like an upswing to me. I have a feeling these people have left it too late in the selling season, only now realising this and trying to get a sale before things turn even more negative.

269 houses when I search Hale, with some duplication, and some outside Hale.

A month ago I posted my hopes of improved supply, but if there has been it's only a small uptick in my opinion. The first week after posting that I counted only 3 new houses appear on Rightmove for Hale, and very few in my other target areas. I've not checked every week since (been busy) but it's still far from being what I hope for.

Agree I don't think we'll see the market swamped or flooded with new supply, but hope for just enough new supply to outweigh proceed-able buyers, putting heavier downward pressure on prices.

And I mean supply in the form where sellers have increase pressure or good reason for them to actively try and sell, even with prices sliding, rather the top reason for sales falling through in 2011, according to Moneyweek; grouchy sellers snubbing what they're offered and withdrawing their homes from the market. Just testing what they could get, but not willing to seriously consider the offers made to them.

I've got a hit-list of roads in many areas of South Manchester where I'd like to buy a house, and most of them have no houses up for sale at all. That's part of how I'm gauging it, but I realise it's not the most accurate way either.

I've got a suspicion we're going to see an uptick in supply from here, and into the future. There's a lot of gathering factors which can't be held at bay with low interest rates, and even QE could be negatively feeding back on itself with consequences for house prices. Mostly I'm expecting more sellers sellers with lots of equity in their homes, wanting to tap some of it, more inclined to accept lower prices to achieve it, with concern prices could/will fall further if they don't look to act.

Things are more exciting at the higher end. I can see why you're happier and optimistic. The money to be saved from waiting for a buying opportunity, or even building rapport, with a seller of a higher value property, is of an entirely higher order. Nomadd we can differ about interpretation of supply without any bad feeling. I'm actually grateful to know what I see as a drought others see as a good level of supply. Perhaps I hold a grudge to QE and low interest rates preventing what I once fully expected to be the extent of the supply coming to market.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Venger

[Nomadd]

269 houses when I search Hale, with some duplication, and some outside Hale.

A month ago I posted my hopes of improved supply, but if there has been it's only a small uptick in my opinion. The first week after posting that I counted only 3 new houses appear on Rightmove for Hale, and very few in my other target areas. I've not checked every week since (been busy) but it's still far from being what I hope for.

Agree I don't think we'll see the market swamped or flooded with new supply, but hope for just enough new supply to outweigh proceed-able buyers, putting heavier downward pressure on prices.

And I mean supply in the form where sellers have increase pressure or good reason for them to actively try and sell, even with prices sliding, rather the top reason for sales falling through in 2011, according to Moneyweek; grouchy sellers snubbing what they're offered and withdrawing their homes from the market. Just testing what they could get, but not willing to seriously consider the offers made to them.

I've got a hit-list of roads in many areas of South Manchester where I'd like to buy a house, and most of them have no houses up for sale at all. That's part of how I'm gauging it, but I realise it's not the most accurate way either.

Things are more exciting at the higher end. I can see why you're happier and optimistic. The money to be saved from waiting for a buying opportunity, or even building rapport, with a seller of a higher value property, is of an entirely higher order. Nomadd we can differ about interpretation of supply without any bad feeling. I'm actually grateful to know what I see as a drought others see as a good level of supply. Perhaps I hold a grudge to QE and low interest rates preventing what I once fully expected to be the extent of the supply coming to market.

Yes, if you are looking "Hale only", then that's a much smaller pool - but then it is a much smaller area. Still, over 200 "houses" up for sale at the moment in Hale, which is still a fairly large number for such a small area.

The market in hale seems to be falling apart at the top end and the bottom end; it's the squeeze in the middle that has been slowest to respond - say the £300k-650k bracket. But, as has been shown in the last few pages, some of that £300k stuff is now starting to sink fast, and a lot of the "upper" stuff that once wouldn't have touched this bracket is now starting to slide dangerously into it. I've a feeling that we are now entering the final stages of this unwind - although I still think it will be several years yet before the true bottom is found.

I simply can't be bothered at present arguing with EAs and Vendors about the state of the market, especially whilst I still have access to a nice cheap rental and my savings are pulling in a good return (which would instead be a loss if that cash was currently invested in bricks-n-mortar.) As each month passes, I feel those prepared to wait are in a progressively better and better position. From my own perspective, if I had purchased my own "dream place" in 2006-7, I'd already be nursing losses of many hundreds of thousands of pounds (and that's before you begin to take five years worth of lost interest plus mortgage payments into account, which would have resulted in even greater losses.) My opinion is that unless you are desperate, simply stay out of the market and watch things unfold. Alternatively, just stick with selective "very cheeky" offers, which is something I know you are doing.

[howarden]

That story still doesn't fully add up for a would-be buyer having to try and establish rapport or build a special relationship with a seller in order to get a good price.

Sounds like your seller had no option, but to sell to a buyer in a position of power, for there were few other willing and able buyers around...

(snip)

You forget that the seller did have another option, don't sell the house. Building rapport could help turn that person from a non-seller to a seller.

[Nomadd]

You forget that the seller did have another option, don't sell the house. Building rapport could help turn that person from a non-seller to a seller.

I've had family members recently both sides of the "chain" coin. First chain completed - everyone walked away with a new place to live - and the second chain quickly collapsed - everyone ended up stuck in the same place. No amount of "rapport" was ever going to change this.

In the case of even the completed chain, each member only saw the other persons place and the vendor twice - an initial visit, and then a second more detailed look around before putting in an offer. In all cases, the EAs were always present, and the visits themselves were approximately 15 minutes each. That's very typical for house sales in the UK. So, not much scope to build a "rapport" with someone you'll only meet twice for 30 minutes in total, and even then they are always being "handled" by their representing EA. Most vendors simply don't want to build a "rapport" with a buyer - they will simply point you at their EA for fear of being duped somehow; to them, their EA is the "expert" in the process.

Most people will not enter the whole messy/expensive house selling/moving process unless they do have an intention to sell. I don't think you can "rapport" a non-seller into a seller or vice-versa. What does turn sellers into non-sellers is unrealistic expectations, nearly always to do with pricing. Once you get the seller-turned-non-seller with the "I'm not giving my house away!" mindset, then no amount of rapport will change that. In the case of the completed chain I mentioned above, each person in the chain had to accept roughly 25% less than their initial asking price to keep the chain alive. I think that's more the reality of selling today than any amount of rapport building.

I will agree that in certain cases - say buying a dump or partly completed home from a struggling builder, or building a rapport with an EA and setting their expectations correctly - can be useful; I just don't feel that this process works many times between a buyer and a seller directly. As ever, though, I'm happy to accept that others may feel differently or may have different experiences to bring to the debate.

[R K]

269 houses when I search Hale, with some duplication, and some outside Hale.

Oh look, Altrincham +1 mile. Excluding SSTC UNDER £200k = 879!!

[Venger]

You forget that the seller did have another option, don't sell the house. Building rapport could help turn that person from a non-seller to a seller.

Going around in circles and I know I can't win this one. I recall Jamie Theakston doing the rapport thing with a seller for a historic house, convinced there was buying competition from all over the world. Well done to him but It's not 2001 any more. Last I heard he was trying to flog it on for £2 million. Perhaps he needs charming into accepting £1.8m. I'd rather he keep hold of it, and more realistic sellers who want to actively sell, gradually undermine what he thinks its worth.

It sounded like they needed or wanted to sell. Facts given to me: 'Very reluctant landlords.' Actively wanting to move to another area. (Perhaps for employment reasons). If they weren't inclined to sell in the first place, why accept an offer way below asking? They held on tight to a low offer until the seller could complete 12 months later. No amount of rapport would have stopped them snapping up a much better offer if had it come along, in my opinion.

Friends who were very 'reluctant landlords' waited 12 months for their 1 and only buyer to sort out his personal life. He built a good rapport with them, they took him at his word, waited and exchanged last month. They're now buying in the area they want.

The market is the main convincer, with peoples' own financial or personal circumstances within it. More people need to be inclined to come to market and sell because of those variables.

At least there is just enough supply from more realistic sellers who are transacting to slowly bring values down, for all other owners, including for the types Nomadd describes with their unrealistic expectations of what they expect to sell for.

And for owners waiting to be charmed into selling. Their homes are falling in value when others transact at lower prices. They can't hold the market to hostage, and their selling pricing expectations are gradually, until they are forced to accept the market has adjusted lower still. Some sellers are now feeling the brunt of these market forces. (That chain was a good example of co-operation but they are far and few between).

http://www.rightmove...y-28471483.html

http://www.rightmove...y-38654318.html

Most people will not enter the whole messy/expensive house selling/moving process unless they do have an intention to sell. I don't think you can "rapport" a non-seller into a seller or vice-versa. What does turn sellers into non-sellers is unrealistic expectations, nearly always to do with pricing. Once you get the seller-turned-non-seller with the "I'm not giving my house away!" mindset, then no amount of rapport will change that.

I wish it were more Red Knight, but perhaps it's an improvement on recent months.

[Venger]

http://www.rightmove...y-35739727.html

Also just clicked on the old rightmove link. JF claiming SSTC at the time

Yoohoo; a slight cut in asking price.

Nothing to get excited about though, as still got an asking price way beyond the supposed peak years the main forum talks about.

I love kite flyers. What on earth are Jordan Fishstick smoking?

13 Oak Road bought in 2007 for £236K http://www.nethousep...gToSearch=38720

4 years later (possibly with loft conversion) - Asking price of £335K

Look at it, http://www.rightmove...y-17727597.html

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Yoohoo; a slight cut in asking price.

Nothing to get excited about though, as still got an asking price way beyond the supposed peak years the main forum talks about.

Imho this is worth more

http://www.jhilditch.com/property-HD3789.html

More land for off road parking trumps loft convo anyday.

Its like some people are not so much blinkered as just can't see beyond end of their nose.

Oh, and another house I have previously fingered is listed for the third time in a year after going sstc twice. Must be well fishy

Mid-morning update: see what you mean about oak road now, down to 300.

Edited September 19, 2012 by SeeYouNextTuesday

[howarden]

Similar money, off road parking, only 2 beds but you could put the sprog in the 'home office' out the back . 2 minute stroll to the pubs. It's been up before I think but no furniture in it on these pics so I'd guess they need to sell.

http://www.rightmove...y-38841710.html

For Sale advert is still live at OIRO 310k, but now available to rent at 995 pcm.

http://www.rightmove...y-39336530.html

[Nomadd]

For Sale advert is still live at OIRO 310k, but now available to rent at 995 pcm.

And the Barclays mortgage calculator tells me if I put down £31,000 deposit, I can buy it for £1,800 a month. That's a standard SVR mortgage over 25 years, not a BTL one, which of course would cost even more (and you'd be praying IRs never go up in the next 25 years!)

Kinda puts it all in perspective. Renting is dead money? I think not.

[R K]

For Sale advert is still live at OIRO 310k, but now available to rent at 995 pcm.

http://www.rightmove...y-39336530.html

It says 'let agreed'.

Equiv gross yield of c. 3.9% sounds about right. That said, it means one would have to generate 3.9% net (real) yield on your £310k which in the present climate ain't easy.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Red Knight

[Nomadd]

It says 'let agreed'.

Equiv gross yield of c. 3.9% sounds about right. That said, it means one would have to generate 3.9% net (real) yield on your £310k which in the present climate ain't easy.

As a BTL? Your post isn't clear on what comparison you are trying to draw?

As a BTL, the rent (assuming they got that much, which is questionable) would be about 3.8% p.a. "gross". But that would be taxed, so yields the same situation as having the money sat in bonds at 4%.

And the downsides of BTL:

1. We don't know how much it rented out for - the price was probably haggled down.

2. With the state of the economy, the rental price achievable may drop in the coming years.

3. IRs are unlikely to stay at current levels for the next 25 years.

4. Need to factor in maintenance, voids, agency fees, etc. The yield is likely to be much lower when all is said and done.

5. Get a bad tenant, and things can turn very ugly and expensive very quickly. (I know, as I have several mates with BTL stories that would make you weep - think 6 months+ and several court orders to remove tenants who claim they have nowhere to live, all the while whilst receiving no rental income; oh, and the house is trashed by the time you get it back, costing thousands to put right before you can re-let it.)

6. We need to factor in the hassle factor of simply running a BTL.

7. In Bonds, you'd have £310k returning a positive yield going forwards for as many years as you like. £310k invested in that property is likely to return a sizable loss over the next few years, IMHO.

Or alternatively, did you mean keeping your £310k and then simply having to generate the rent for the place instead? That is, rent it, and not purchase it as a BTL?

Well, if you were retired (or had no other income), the 4% you'd get in Bonds would be largely untaxed (8k TFA, etc.) And, of course, you wouldn't have to deal with the same negatives I mentioned above (especially house price depreciation and maintenance costs), so the renting option stills seems the far safer approach, IMHO. And, of course, you'd have the comfort of knowing you still had £310k in the bank. I know which situation I'd rather be in.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Nomadd