There Still Out There

[notfes]

Last night i met up with a group of friends, 12 of us all relatively well educated. Anyway, the conversation in part steered onto houses, current economic problems, indebtedness, job security you know all the happy subjects but i was staggered by the collective idiocy that they believed that property was still going to go up, some were looking to buy another property to rent out to 'students', even thought they said they were 'skint' and that they would look at this as a future long-term investment. The main couple making such murmurings were lecturers, i interjected with a few factual observations but the standard 'brainwashed' notion that property will only keep going up and be a stable retirment plan with significant long term returns was the general sentiment (concurred by the other 30-somethings nodding heads).

I am now finding this increasingly silly-view ie the only was is up has become an immovable collective psychosis, the unanimous denial that will not waiver until literally millions are unemployed, repossessions are an everyday sight and the proverbial brown stuff has hit the fan. There seems to be little slowdown in the property-porn TV progs, mags and the masses collective obsession with houses as a profit making entity (not a home) still seems as steadfast as ever, yes the occasional nod at a possible 'downturn' although given is i believe a mere gesture as they're already seeing past that and onto the next 'upswing'.

Anyway, that's it just an observation and any comments observations appreciated.

[Guest The_Oldie]

The lemmings were still buying whilst between the cliff top and the ground in the Dotcom crash .

[Layman]

Anyway, that's it just an observation and any comments observations appreciated.

Your story is, unfortunately, completely believable. I'm still amazed how many supposedly intelligent well-paid colleagues of mine cite the current issues as being "caused by American sub-prime". Even senior managers and directors talk of headcount freezes, etc. as being "caused by the credit crunch" and yet they really don't understand (or want to understand) what it's all about!

I've given up trying to educate people. It's possibly quite selfish but I'm just looking after myself (and my wife) now. I'm gradually being proved right, and my family who right up until a month ago were labelling me "stupid" are now beginning to think my views may have some credibility. They won't admit it, of course.... and I've learnt not to rub their noses in it. So it just goes unspoken.

Don't get frustrated. Make your point if you want... then move the conversation on and don't fall out with your friends over it.

[notfes]

The lemmings were still buying whilst between the cliff top and the ground in the Dotcom crash .

Agreed, but i still don't think the wind has departed the sails from the masses, the problem is they are still be'dazzled by the notion and ideal of untold 'riches' through property courtesy of our unbiased media who obviously have no VI in such matters

[sign_of_the_times]

Last night i met up with a group of friends, 12 of us all relatively well educated.

I beg to differ, judging by the way you spelt the title of this thread

[notfes]

I beg to differ, judging by the way you spelt the title of this thread

[/quote

SotT, i know i noticed that (sp) terrible and i went to a grammar school (detention, reprimanded, lines and a slapt wrist!)

[kilroy]

I beg to differ, judging by the way you spelt the title of this thread

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

I am now finding this increasingly silly-view ie the only was is up has become an immovable collective psychosis, the unanimous denial that will not waiver until literally millions are unemployed, repossessions are an everyday sight and the proverbial brown stuff has hit the fan. There seems to be little slowdown in the property-porn TV progs, mags and the masses collective obsession with houses as a profit making entity (not a home) still seems as steadfast as ever, yes the occasional nod at a possible 'downturn' although given is i believe a mere gesture as they're already seeing past that and onto the next 'upswing'.

Anyway, that's it just an observation and any comments observations appreciated.

The sentiment factor is definitely sticking unfortunately - it'll take a long time to get the notion out of people's minds that "you can't lose with property". The problem is that they're right: ultimately property does always go up in nominal terms in the long-term as all assets ultimately do. This is why housing is so prone to heady bubbles because houses are the one asset that most people are familar with day-to-day and you can borrow to invest in them so every now and again a collective mania ensues that "everyone needs a house, therefore prices must always rise, therefore housing is a one-way bet in the long-term".

Unfortunately, however, "The market can stay irrational, longer than you can stay solvent" as my signature says - you might have a long-term game plan but the market might also have one that doesn't quite fit with yours.

[domo]

meh all my life I've been trying to remember when to use there/their etc.

[hpc-craig]

meh all my life I've been trying to remember when to use there/their etc.

Although in this case it should have been that illusive third one: They're.

i.e: They're still out there

Anyway, I am also noticing that sentiment is remaining 'sticky', but I'm yet to find anyone who is really bullish about property at the moment. There does seem to be a lot of caution about.

Me and my GF had to go a long route through town and i told her to keep an eye out for any 'Sold' signs. We found one up against 15 for sale, a few of which are on their second agents and a few which are currently multi agent.

Buyers are backing off, but probably not beleiving that we will see huge falls just yet.

[cartimandua51]

Although in this case it should have been that illusive third one: They're.

i.e: They're still out there

Anyway, I am also noticing that sentiment is remaining 'sticky', but I'm yet to find anyone who is really bullish about property at the moment. There does seem to be a lot of caution about.

Me and my GF had to go a long route through town and i told her to keep an eye out for any 'Sold' signs. We found one up against 15 for sale, a few of which are on their second agents and a few which are currently multi agent.

Buyers are backing off, but probably not beleiving that we will see huge falls just yet.

Er - don't you mean elusive?!

There is a word illusive but it's very rare; derived from illusion.

[notfes]

The main 'sticking' problem as i see it is that folk seem to still believe that their homes are actually 'worth' these ludicrous price tags, its just an illusion, transitory as i see it but selling folk do seem to be absolutely 'stuck' on the idea that they may 'loose out' by selling at a reduced price (when they believe this continued BS espouted by VI's, EA's and the media, everyone wants to believe this notion that they're sat on the golden goose and the UK as a collective whole has been sold this. There are lots of properties for sale here in East Yorkshire and there seems to be no sign of any reductions whatsoever.

I think its going to take a heavy heavy blow to knock the sense or stuffing in/out of this one which could literally take years.

[Michael]

They're .................abbreviation of ''they are''

Their......................possessive pronoun.....''it is THEIR car , not mine''

There.....................it's over ''THERE''..................''THERE is/are''

When i was at school you learnt this at 6 or 7

Edited February 29, 2008 by Michael

[cartimandua51]

They're .................abbreviation of ''they are''

Their......................possessive pronoun.....''it is THEIR car , not mine''

There.....................it's over ''THERE''..................''THERE is/are''

When i was at school you learnt this at 6 or 7

I find this easier to bear than the misuse of "it's"

I used to try to drill into my accountancy students (not the most literate or well-read of students, admittedly) that

"It's" = IT IS. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS!!!

[I Told You So]

from my experience the vast bulk of the population would happily go out and load up on a BTL portfolio but fortunately they can no longer get hold of the money

[Godfather]

The grammar lesson is very interesting, but going back to the original topic, I think the media is doing this country a dis-service. They have a great deal to do with the sentiment of the masses. The number of people who rely solely on the rag type newspaper for their info is staggering, especially considering the amount of money involved in buying a property.

[iamnumerate]

I have a colleague who lost lots of money on BTL and wasted a year of her life - sadly she won't tell me what happened.

She still wants to get into it again.

[thedebtisreal]

What I find astounding is that the crash happened independent of public sentiment. The banks just woke up one day and decided to lend less money.

The masses still believe property is safe, even with so much evidence to the contrary.

I genuinely worry about the affect this crash is going to have on the national psyche when the one thing they really depend on collapses.

[Not Long Now]

Last night i met up with a group of friends, 12 of us all relatively well educated. Anyway, the conversation in part steered onto houses, current economic problems, indebtedness, job security you know all the happy subjects but i was staggered by the collective idiocy that they believed that property was still going to go up, some were looking to buy another property to rent out to 'students', even thought they said they were 'skint' and that they would look at this as a future long-term investment. The main couple making such murmurings were lecturers, i interjected with a few factual observations but the standard 'brainwashed' notion that property will only keep going up and be a stable retirment plan with significant long term returns was the general sentiment (concurred by the other 30-somethings nodding heads).

I am now finding this increasingly silly-view ie the only was is up has become an immovable collective psychosis, the unanimous denial that will not waiver until literally millions are unemployed, repossessions are an everyday sight and the proverbial brown stuff has hit the fan. There seems to be little slowdown in the property-porn TV progs, mags and the masses collective obsession with houses as a profit making entity (not a home) still seems as steadfast as ever, yes the occasional nod at a possible 'downturn' although given is i believe a mere gesture as they're already seeing past that and onto the next 'upswing'.

Anyway, that's it just an observation and any comments observations appreciated.

The problem with this house price boom has been to encourage people who normally wouldn't have got involved, to speculate on BTL.

These will be the ones who will get really hurt.

[lets get it right]

Er - don't you mean elusive?!

There is a word illusive but it's very rare; derived from illusion.

Perhaps not. It is so rare nowadays for people to use 'their', 'they're' and 'there' correctly that the correct use may well be illusive. It is definitely elusive.

Many people say it does not matter. But, of course, it does.

[jez123]

The lemmings were still buying whilst between the cliff top and the ground in the Dotcom crash .

This is a perfect comparison though isn't it? Many of the people that got into that, like the BTL brigade do very little research, and have no real concept of investment.

BTL property right now, like dotcoms in 1999 is priced highly on potential with no realistic revenue stream to back it up.

There are a also lot of other similarities. The internet opened up leveraged investment tools to the average punter around 98, and that kicked of the dotcom boom. The average punter now has access to leveraged BTL mortgages as well which has kicked off the BTL market.

Those who have been through this before have seen this events played through before.

It's all sentiment with no grounding in reality. The dross, like new builds is already dumping significant amounts of potential value.