Nu Labour Plan To Allow 550,000 Immigrants In Next Year

[South Lorne]

YEP thats Very Scary .... WOW ....

...do what they do in Canada and charge for each call refined to ...each call which turns out not to be an emergency ...

[stormymonday_2011]

I can't see immigration being too much of a problem next year. There just won't be the jobs and, sooner or later, when times get hard there will be a working class backlash against the most recent waves of immigration.

Economic migrants follow the money. Rising unemployment and a likely decline in the value of Sterling is probably going to make the UK less attractive to many immigrants, particularly those from Eastern Europe who will have increasing alternatives from 2008 onwards. The economic trends of the past 10 years which this study is clearly using as a basis for its predictions are already crumbling before our eyes. I still have a sneaking suspicion that within the next ten years the UK may wind up as a net exporter of people.

[Michael]

I'm probably wrong , as per normal , but doesn't Germany open it's borders to the new EU members in 2008 ?

If so , wouldn't the Poles rather just work nextdoor in Germany instead of the UK ?

I would . Cheaper rents , larger economy , maybe commute from home .

Supposedly May 2011 is the date all EU countries open their labour markets to the people from the accession countries......

but this isn't cast in stone.........Potential problem with Austrian capital Vienna which is in the extreme east of the country and only an hour's drive from Bratislava the capital of Slovakia where wages are a fifth of those in Vienna.........The Slovaks will be able to commute daily to Vienna ....

[laurejon]

Economic migrants follow the money. Rising unemployment and a likely decline in the value of Sterling is probably going to make the UK less attractive to many immigrants, particularly those from Eastern Europe who will have increasing alternatives from 2008 onwards. The economic trends of the past 10 years which this study is clearly using as a basis for its predictions are already crumbling before our eyes. I still have a sneaking suspicion that within the next ten years the UK may wind up as a net exporter of people.

You are deluding yourself.

If you lived in Romania or a similar impoverished nation and you came to Britain I can assure you that you will not be moving on when there is no work. You will find that immigrants will stay, they will live in tents or cardboard boxes if required to undercut the local workforce just to eeek out a living to feed their children. In addition I will have you know that immigrants when they find themselves in a tight situation will turn to crime!!!!.

This can be seen across the world where immigrants have settled in an area in a so called boom town, and when the economy tanked the town turned into a ghetto of lawlessness and crime. The US City of Detroit is one such example. Did they all return to Africa and Jamiaca ?

[South Lorne]

You are deluding yourself.

If you lived in Romania or a similar impoverished nation and you came to Britain I can assure you that you will not be moving on when there is no work. You will find that immigrants will stay, they will live in tents or cardboard boxes if required to undercut the local workforce just to eeek out a living to feed their children. In addition I will have you know that immigrants when they find themselves in a tight situation will turn to crime!!!!.

This can be seen across the world where immigrants have settled in an area in a so called boom town, and when the economy tanked the town turned into a ghetto of lawlessness and crime. The US City of Detroit is one such example. Did they all return to Africa and Jamiaca ?

...our welfare state system supports extremists of all sorts from around the world ....was it Hamza the RTB landlord who lived off benefits....?.....

[laurejon]

...our welfare state system supports extremists of all sorts from around the world ....was it Hamza the RTB landlord who lived off benefits....?.....

Indeed it was, and he was entitled to multiple council houses as he had several wives. Only recently had this loophole been tidied up, however a man with multiple wives is entitled to include them all as dependents in his benefits application.

[laurejon]

Britain does recognise polygamous marriages that have taken place in countries where the custom is legal, such as Pakistan, Nigeria and India. The Home Office said that multiple wives in polygamous marriages may be allowed into the country as students or tourists.

Officials are advised to let extra wives into Britain even if they suspect that a husband is trying to cheat the system by getting bogus divorces.

“Entry clearance may not be withheld from a second wife where the husband has divorced his previous wife and the divorce is thought to be one of convenience,” an immigration rulebook advises.

“This is so, even if the husband is still living with the previous wife and to issue the entry clearance would lead to the formation of a polygamous household.”

Opposition politicians are concerned about the burden being placed by polygamy on the social security and tax systems.

A husband may claim housing benefit for each wife even if she is abroad, for up to 52 weeks, as long as the absence is temporary and for pressing reasons. In a draft Commons reply released under the Freedom of Information Act, officials explained another way in which the system made it easy to receive handouts.

“A polygamous marriage is the only circumstance in which an adult dependency increase is payable in income-related benefits,” it stated. “In any other circumstances an adult ‘dependent’ would have to make a separate claim.”

To calculate the amount of income support that is payable to an extra wife, officials subtract the rate paid to an individual from that paid to a couple. This produces the amount that a cohabiting spouse is deemed to need in social security benefits. If a man lives with two valid wives, his household is paid the rate for a couple, plus an amount for the extra spouse, the documents show.

Women who enter unrecog-nised multiple marriages in Britain are far more vulnerable. They can end up being dumped by their “husbands” with no safeguards.

Mr Malins asked the Government three years ago to reveal how many unregistered polygamous weddings took place in Britain, but he did not receive an answer. Now officials admit that they do not know.

“I’ve not been able to find out from the Government what the extent of the problem is,” Mr Malins said. “It’s a very serious issue.”

The practice is said to have become commonplace, at least among Kashmiris, a group that accounts for most of the 747,000 Pakistanis in Britain.

Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad practised polygamy. One of his motiva-tions was thought to have been charity, taking on widows in time of war.

In contemporary Muslim countries, patriarchal attitudes may leave a woman and children defenceless if they do not have a man to protect them.

Asian republics that were part of the former Soviet Union have debated the legalisation of polygamy to save war widows from being forced into prostitution and human trafficking. Tajikistan has an estimated 25,000 widows. Kyrgyzstan rejected an attempt to legalise polygamy this March.

[Paddles]

Moderators, isn't it time we moved this thread to another part of the forum?

Do we have a "Yes, I know Alf Garnet is a fictional character lampooning bigots but I still say he speaks the truth" section running?

Edited December 29, 2007 by Paddles

[Realistbear]

Moderators, isn't it time we moved this thread to another part of the forum?

Do we have a "Yes, I know Alf Garnet is a fictional character lampooning bigots but I still say he speaks the truth" section running?

Looking at it from a numbers perspective alone it makes no sense Gordon allowing in hundreds of thousands of people without, at the same time, making sure decent and affordable housing is available for them when they arrive. Brown knows our local authorities are overstretched so why does he not build vast tracts of new homes, schools and hospitals for the new arrivals complete with teachers who can speak the various languages involved. To welcome people to our country without the basics in hospitality being offered is inhumane IMO.

[Woot]

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3097570.ece

From The Times

December 27, 2007

Out of the 550,000 migrants forecast to settle on British soil next year, 275,000 are expected to be workers who will help maintain GDP growth at 1.8 per cent in 2008.

The influx, largely from Eastern Europe, will effectively allow growth to rise by an extra fifth. Without them UK GDP would grow only 1.5 per cent next year.

And where exactly are those jobs coming from when we see reports from a range of sources for next year predicting lowest number of jobs available for a decade?

Is it worth it when you consider the strain on schools, hospitals, housing, and other social services? I think the public have voted on this issue already and they are saying NO. The problem is that Gordon is not listening.

He is too arrogant, paternalistic and patronizing to listen to the people - so convinced that he knows best... an obsolete management form at best - suicidal mismanagement at worst.

I can't wait for him to go - I only wish there were a mechanism to get him out before the next GE - I fear for the irreversible damage he will do to our society and it's most fundamental strucutres before then.

TD

[Woot]

The problem isn't the thousands of young, slim, attractive, educated, hardworking Slavic immigrants we import. The problems is the that we cannot export or own ugly work-shy under-class.

I appreciate your humour, however hasn't this thread got a little hung up on Poles? We have huge numbers of immigrants from a wide range of countries, many joining us with far less to contribute than the Polish, some of whom work damn hard for low wages. Let's not forget those from Poland and other Eastern European destinations who a trafficing young women here for prostitution, those from african states who import great violence and drug trafficing, those from arab states who wish to avoid any form of assimilation and bring sharia law, and those from South America who also bring drugs and violence - and lets not get started on the Carribean and Yardies.

My problem with our immigration system is that we will let anyone in - the UK is starting to look like Australia in the 1800s: one huge lawless, violent penal colony.

And finally, without wishing to be too contentious, of all the young kids we've seen shot or stabbed in our cities' streets in the last few years, how many of them have been young white kids called 'Jonny Smith'? What has the Government done to our society?

TD

BTW I could bleat in a PC manner about all the many highly intellectual, professional friends and colleagues I have from 50 ethnic backgrounds, however on this occasion I am not going to. I'm not a racist \ fascist or any other kind of ~ist, but at some point the above has got to be noted.

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Moderators, isn't it time we moved this thread to another part of the forum?

Do we have a "Yes, I know Alf Garnet is a fictional character lampooning bigots but I still say he speaks the truth" section running?

back to your muesli and al_Guardianista, we want our country back and we won't be silenced by liberal traitors!

[Woot]

And quite right too. In a progressive nation like the UK we provide immigrants with the full range of translation services to assist in accessing benefits, schools , and a host of other public services paid for by the tax payer :angry:

In fact you never need learn to speak english at all!

We moved away from Bedford when my son got to school age: we discovered that 97% of children in his local catchment school spoke English as a second language. How is that in any way fair on the local British kids - what would an English lesson be like in a school like that.

It's a shame because we really did value the cultural diversity of Bedford - great cooking from a host of nations, many kind people and interesting society - but we couldn't stake our own children's education on a nice cultural ideal.

TD

[The Spaniard]

I'm not a racist \ fascist or any other kind of ~ist ...

You clearly do not like racists. This makes you a racistist.

[Woot]

Moderators, isn't it time we moved this thread to another part of the forum?

Do we have a "Yes, I know Alf Garnet is a fictional character lampooning bigots but I still say he speaks the truth" section running?

Surely immigration is an issue key to the UK housing debate - it massively influcenes supply and demand; the influence on social cohesion also affect house prices and - as some on this forum have discovered - increasingly brits are being priced out of starter homes by several immigrant families clubbing together.

I think it is totally salient.

TD

[Guest pioneer31]

Moderators, isn't it time we moved this thread to another part of the forum?

Do we have a "Yes, I know Alf Garnet is a fictional character lampooning bigots but I still say he speaks the truth" section running?

Do we have a 'I'm just dying to place the race card' thread?

Maybe you can reside there.

[laurejon]

How much you get paid in your Job, the job that will be available to you, the area you chose to live in, the schools in the area, the standard of housing in that area, the crime in that area.

All are pertinent to housing, and in turn are extremely pertinent when you are talking about scarce resources and more people being brought in to not only share in them, but often taking the Lions share.

Immigation is the biggest crisis unveiling itself to the working classes today and if its not addressed things will only get worse.

For sure Gordon is quite happy to make us clamber over each other to grab our public services, its no skin off his nose he is only interested in taking our money and spending it on better causes such as his cronies who all want high paid jobs and the power to control not only the citizens of the UK but Europe and even further afield.

[Pindar]

Of course immigration is relevant to any discussion on house prices. It has helped (IMHO) prolong this obscene housing boom racket of the last 10 years. As these cycles naturally come to an end, the liberal intelligentsia will no longer be able (or want) to claim stewardship for the apparent economic success and will naturally be seeking ways in which to manage the aftermath. Presumably, this is why the government has preempted the situtation by installing CCTV on every street corner, massively increased the size of government and state powers as well as placating their rich friends by refusing to fairly tax the rich parasites that make London their playground but don't pay their way. They've also allowed a gang of thieves and incompetents to run their fiscal policy and given away control of our constitution to foreign powers who don't have a good track record in democratic practices.

Edited December 29, 2007 by BarrelShifter

[laurejon]

The British have been falling for the line spun out of Labour HQ.

"The immigrants are only here for the jobs and the money, when it dries up they all go home"

Wrong, when it dries up they all go out on the streets and cause havoc.

Race Riots are something we had left behind us, under New Labour it appears it will be another one of their many failures.

Yes even Immigrants have to put food in their mouths when they have no jobs, and I would guess they are better prepared at getting it sorted as opposed to the spoon fed British Teenager who is no doubt at 21 more interested in what is going to happen to the Dolphins and the Polar bears when the world gets hotter in five years and twenty two days time.

[Fudge]

Most migrant workers will be working for agencies due to the nature of the work that is required, that is low skilled manual

work. Working for agencies they are by employment law classed as workers and

have a contract of services rather than classed as employees that have contracts of employment.

So you have in effect a two tier workforce, those classed as employees have more rights under employment law.

The migrant workers due to their low pay, employment status and the temporary nature of the work will find it very difficult

to obtain a mortgage, more so now due to the credit crunch. So most migrant workers rent. Most of the agencies actually provide access to housing to rent, if they are not the landlords themselves they work very closely with the BTL landlords.

Now house prices are so high that the BTL crowd cannot get the yield to make it pay, and house prices are now actually falling so no capital gains to be made any more. The BTL boom and the influx of migrant workers are very much interdependent. My point is what? Oh yes I remember.

This whole thing is IMHO going to go into reverse as the economy worsens, BTL rush to the exits, jobs are lost, migrant workers leave. As the migrant workers leave, inflation will go up for a lot of things, food for example as it was their cheap labour keeping costs down.

[laurejon]

I think he is reffering mainly to migrant workers in the agricultural business. These are often under the mercies of Gangmasters who provide the accomodation which is knocked off their wages each week.

I think the big question is this.

Has there ever been a time in a recession whereby the immigrant workers did not rise up and go onto the streets to demand equal treatment and access to benefits and services ?

I have to say I have lived through several recession and downturns and in my experience race relations in a downturn fall to an all time low.

[Fudge]

Hi Fudge,

Do you have any links to back that up please? If that's the case that's incredible.

I will look for links but I thought it was common knowledge.

I know someone who runs an employment agency and he also runs an housing arm. Not only do they

make money from the work the migrants do, with the money paid to them they pay back rent for the housing the agency

provides. It is like the old days when say workers in the the mine have to live in houses the company owns and buy

tools and food from the mining company store.

In fact the agency provides transport in the form of a minibus so they also make money charging to take them to a from

places of work.

[Fudge]

I think he is reffering mainly to migrant workers in the agricultural business. These are often under the mercies of Gangmasters who provide the accomodation which is knocked off their wages each week.

I think the big question is this.

Has there ever been a time in a recession whereby the immigrant workers did not rise up and go onto the streets to demand equal treatment and access to benefits and services ?

I have to say I have lived through several recession and downturns and in my experience race relations in a downturn fall to an all time low.

No i dont, I mean the agancies you see in the high street.

And dont forget these agencies have shops in place like Poland encouraging them with stories of the streets paved with gold

in England to come and work here. Saying dont worry about work and housing we sort all that out for you.

[alexw]

Well as our highly able government estimated, there were only between 5,000 and 13,000 poles arriving per year to our shores. This means that any economic impact of their leaving should be minimal.

Also too as gordon brown stated he got rid of the "broom and bust" cycles, so clearly whats happening can't actually be happening.

[laurejon]

Well as our highly able government estimated, there were only between 5,000 and 13,000 poles arriving per year to our shores. This means that any economic impact of their leaving should be minimal.

Also too as gordon brown stated he got rid of the "broom and bust" cycles, so clearly whats happening can't actually be happening.

I like this theory, those that cannot see it the way of New Labour are either Tory Voters who use Zimmer Frames and gallons of pink rinse, or are alternatively living in a parallel universe.