Spain Are In The Process Of Bracing For A Severe Hpc

[Realistbear]

http://www.in2perspective.com/nr/2007/09/s...arket-crash.jsp

Spain braced for housing market crash

By Andy "Andrew" Grant, Staff Writer

Published 7th Sep 2007, (a Friday) at 12:00AM

See also... spain, bubble, bubble toil and trouble -crash!

Spain, the site of Europe’s biggest property boom of recent years, is bracing itself for a price crash of up to 30%.

The Spanish market has been slowing down since last November but the fall is starting to gain momentum. Hundreds of estate agencies in the popular resort areas of south and south east Spain are closing.

Over 250,000 Spanish properties have British owners.

The slowing of the UK market and the expected rise in mortgage rates may mean a mass exodus from the Spanish market by British owners looking to consolidate their finances.

The effects of the Spanish meltdown will be felt here. Thousands of Brits having to sell up and return home to salvage what they can from properties here which were MEWed to buy the gaff on the Costa.

Are they still ramping Spanish property on TV these days?

Edited September 7, 2007 by Realistbear

[markinspain]

Sorry RB - we had this one earlier today.

[alabala]

Sorry RB - we had this one earlier today.

This little piggy went to market,

This little piggy stayed at home,

This little piggy had roast beef,

This little piggy had none.

And this little piggy went...

"Wee wee wee" all the way home...

[South Lorne]

....for those who retired and bought cash in the sun after downsizing or selling in the UK ....no problem ...for those MEWing and 'investing'......not a healthy scene......

[Sledgehead]

Replying to Spain Are In The Process Of Bracing For A Severe Hpc

This can't be right. Are you trying to tell me all those Polaris prime-time ads were in vain???

How could anyone resist the charisma of their CEO??

Or Jack Nicklaus and his catchy catch-phrase?? : "Polaris World. Maybe Tomorrow, Better Today!"

Anybody else just a little concerned about their choice of company name? Wasn't Polaris the name of a nuclear missile?

Just look at that thing go up ........ remind me, what happens next ....?

Maybe that tag line needs reworking: "Polaris World. Forget tomorrow, stick your head between your legs and kiss your financial future goodbye."

[BandWagon]

Maybe that tag line needs reworking: "Polaris World. Forget tomorrow, stick your head between your legs and kiss your financial future goodbye."

I like the adverts.

Have you seen the one where some guy says "Thinking of buying in Spain, but prices seemed out of reach. Well at Polaris World we offer dreams/apartments/something at reasonable prices".

It's a nice way of saying "Ok, the game is over, the market's tanked, if you bought a year ago you won't get your money back, but please buy from us because we can't sell these boxes to stupid foreigners anymore"

[OnlyMe]

The slowing of the UK market and the expected rise in mortgage rates may mean a mass exodus from the Spanish market by British owners looking to consolidate their finances.

Not so sure. I liken a lot of the action as being similar to Germans placing towels on sunbeds early in the morning. A lot of these "owners" may have to sell up at home and make an earlier than expected shift to the Costas and make it work withthe proceeds garnered from the UK. Nobody likes selling at a loss and selling the UK place may be a hell of a lot more palatable (and doable for that matter).

[scoobydo]

[found this the other week, http://www.direct-auctions.com/EN/123EN.ne...asp?newsid=2828,

[markinspain]

This little piggy went to market,

This little piggy stayed at home,

This little piggy had roast beef,

This little piggy had none.

And this little piggy went...

"Wee wee wee" all the way home...

What are you trying to say?

[sossij]

This can't be right. Are you trying to tell me all those Polaris prime-time ads were in vain???

How could anyone resist the charisma of their CEO??

Or Jack Nicklaus and his catchy catch-phrase?? : "Polaris World. Maybe Tomorrow, Better Today!"

Anybody else just a little concerned about their choice of company name? Wasn't Polaris the name of a nuclear missile?

Just look at that thing go up ........ remind me, what happens next ....?

Maybe that tag line needs reworking: "Polaris World. Forget tomorrow, stick your head between your legs and kiss your financial future goodbye."

Heh heh

[Jimmy2Times]

This little piggy went to market,

This little piggy stayed at home,

This little piggy had roast beef,

This little piggy had none.

And this little piggy went...

"Wee wee wee" all the way home...

And the European Central Bank said I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your "Stavros built, concrete box by the beach you paid 1 million euros for" down.

[markinspain]

And the European Central Bank said I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your "Stavros built, concrete box by the beach you paid 1 million euros for" down.

Stavros is Greek! I get the feeling there are a couple of people ´having a pop´ at Spanish home owners lately and hoping for a schadenfreude. Whilst there are plenty of idiots in Spain (from all parts of the world actually), I think it´s a bit sad that some people are positively wishing for everything to go wrong for them. As other people have posted before about hoping for a recession in the UK, you should be careful what you wish for, as even if you don´t have property, you might lose your job. Old French has a marvellous phrase for this ´Honi soit qui mal y pense´ literally 'Evil be to him who evil thinks´

(Incidently, prices don´t really affect me that much as my purchases weren´t debt fuelled)

[alabala]

Stavros is Greek! I get the feeling there are a couple of people ´having a pop´ at Spanish home owners lately and hoping for a schadenfreude. Whilst there are plenty of idiots in Spain (from all parts of the world actually), I think it´s a bit sad that some people are positively wishing for everything to go wrong for them. As other people have posted before about hoping for a recession in the UK, you should be careful what you wish for, as even if you don´t have property, you might lose your job. Old French has a marvellous phrase for this ´Honi soit qui mal y pense´ literally 'Evil be to him who evil thinks´

(Incidently, prices don´t really affect me that much as my purchases weren´t debt fuelled)

Cmmon, Mark…

How on the earth somebody can wish for something and become a reality, this is not wonderland. We can without difficulty see the cause, reason, or source of this mess, simple and obvious cause and effect.

Grimness and despair have become so common, this is not just property problem, not even a market problem, excess in the past have always caused pain and will cause pain in the future, we as a thinking sort should be able to do better, bulls or bears we are simply human beings not fairies, my wish means nothing, your wish means nothing.

How do you like human nature, how about realism? Man is responsible for what he is.

With 20% of the economy based on Construction, where do you think things will go from here if such important sector is in trouble?

[Justice]

Spain has had it comeing for sometime and even 4 years ago you could see the cracks in the market but it seemed to defit gravity.

Bulgeria is the place to be i thinks

[markinspain]

Cmmon, Mark…

How on the earth somebody can wish for something and become a reality, this is not wonderland. We can without difficulty see the cause, reason, or source of this mess, simple and obvious cause and effect.

Grimness and despair have become so common, this is not just property problem, not even a market problem, excess in the past have always caused pain and will cause pain in the future, we as a thinking sort should be able to do better, bulls or bears we are simply human beings not fairies, my wish means nothing, your wish means nothing.

How do you like human nature, how about realism? Man is responsible for what he is.

With 20% of the economy based on Construction, where do you think things will go from here if such important sector is in trouble?

Don´t get me wrong. House prices throughtout the world are overvalued full stop. No disagreement. What I´m disappointed in is that it´s just a sad reflection of society in general that people want to agressively sneer and laugh at others failures like some kind of drunken football fan. Yes there are people who shouldn´t have taken mortgages, yes there are people who thought they were the next Rachman, but failure will be bad for everyone. I have family and friends who are priced out of owning their own homes but I´m sure deep down they will be uncomfortable with someone elses loss helping their gain. But then again, they are reasonable human beings. Perhaps they are not suited to modern society.

[Jimmy2Times]

Don´t get me wrong. House prices throughtout the world are overvalued full stop. No disagreement. What I´m disappointed in is that it´s just a sad reflection of society in general that people want to agressively sneer and laugh at others failures like some kind of drunken football fan. Yes there are people who shouldn´t have taken mortgages, yes there are people who thought they were the next Rachman, but failure will be bad for everyone. I have family and friends who are priced out of owning their own homes but I´m sure deep down they will be uncomfortable with someone elses loss helping their gain. But then again, they are reasonable human beings. Perhaps they are not suited to modern society.

When property prices are on the up these folks loved to tell all how much they have made, day in day out, I find it quite enjoyable when the voices are silenced and I'm sure alot of folks on this forum would love to join me in hearing a tune from the world smallest violin.

[markinspain]

When property prices are on the up these folks loved to tell all how much they have made, day in day out, I find it quite enjoyable when the voices are silenced and I'm sure alot of folks on this forum would love to join me in hearing a tune from the world smallest violin.

Not in my personality to gloat but I agree there were people who did.

Perhaps you should shout 'You 're not singing anymore' to them seeing as that's your level.

[bpw]

Sorry Mark - but you have a biased view.

I am 44, earn +£100k p.a., and have significant savings. I don't own a home and have been looking to buy for the past 5 years. Each year prices have escalated on the back of low interest rates and pure speculative greed. Those who have benefitted are mostly older and at the end of the housing chain. Some of these people are the ones who make fiscal policies, set interest rates, define pension law, and make changes to public services - they have therefore benefitted from ballooning house prices to historically high income ratios.

Let's face it, if I can't afford a half decent house then something is seriously 'rubber ducked' and it's therefore a matter of time before something breaks. The irony is that it's been those who are most vulnerable that have been the cause of the current turmoil, i.e. those with low credit rating (sub prime) or with jumbo loans (Alt As). They have done the world a service by defaulting and causing havoc in hedge funds which spilled over into LIBOR rates and mortgage costs. With any luck, the situation will get a lot worse causing a long overdue recession in the USA and UK. The reason i think this is because a deep recession is what is needed to force a revaluation of pensions payable to the current generation of retirees and people about to retire. Of course, they think others sons and daughters owe them free health care, defined benefits pensions and free bus passes. Let's hope we really are heading for a significant recession so that the tumor latched on to todays generation of youngsters is quarterised before their future is poisoned.

Don´t get me wrong. House prices throughtout the world are overvalued full stop. No disagreement. What I´m disappointed in is that it´s just a sad reflection of society in general that people want to agressively sneer and laugh at others failures like some kind of drunken football fan. Yes there are people who shouldn´t have taken mortgages, yes there are people who thought they were the next Rachman, but failure will be bad for everyone. I have family and friends who are priced out of owning their own homes but I´m sure deep down they will be uncomfortable with someone elses loss helping their gain. But then again, they are reasonable human beings. Perhaps they are not suited to modern society.

[markinspain]

Sorry Mark - but you have a biased view.

Can you explain why you think I have a biased view, I thought I was being quite fair?

By the way, I'm the same age as you and earn a 20th of your salary now, but that's because I chose to jump off the treadmill and have a different value structure now. On 100k a year, I must admit I find it hard to believe you are on this website on a Sunday night. In the days when I could command decent money, I would have been looking at something far more attractive than a computer screen even if it was Sunday night!

[margesimpson]

Sorry Mark - but you have a biased view.

Kettle and pot spring to mind.

[justAnotherFTB]

Kettle and pot spring to mind.

The thing is that everyone has a VI one way or another WRT house prices don't they?

In all honesty, if those earning high salaries with big deposits are unable to afford houses, where else can the market possibly go but down?

This bubble's been driven by cheap credit, and it seems all too apparent that cheap credit has dissappeared almost overnight. About bl**dy time IMO.

[bpw]

I am, I admit, a little obsessed with the issue of intergenerational wealth transfer. Of course, ballooning house prices are just one facet but they are an important one, so yes I dip into this website on occasions. These days it's mostly to share my views, however there are a few pearls posted now and then which means we all get a little 'wisdom of the crowd' from the site.

A salary of 100k puts me in the rank of an established medical consultant, bank manager etc. Thats about right since I've got a PhD, work hard, and have a lot of responsibility. I would therefore assume that I could live the lifestyle of an equivalent profession. The sad truth however, is that 5 five times my salary is 500k which wouldnt buy me a small terraced house in Richmond, and would just about get me a 1950s bungalow in Kent. Despite my earnings I am therefore destined to live like a sergeant in the police force or some other low ranking profession. Thats rubber ducked up.

I also happen to care about fairness. The younger generation of Britain are being cheated systematically using the boiled frog method, which makes my blood boil. Greed is greed regardless of how you dress it, or whether you passively became so. The older generation and BTL chavs should therefore accept there will be a correction and spivs like Gordon Brown should take resonsibility for having ruined the younger generations quality of life in the UK .

Bring on the recession.

Sorry Mark - but you have a biased view.

Can you explain why you think I have a biased view, I thought I was being quite fair?

By the way, I'm the same age as you and earn a 20th of your salary now, but that's because I chose to jump off the treadmill and have a different value structure now. On 100k a year, I must admit I find it hard to believe you are on this website on a Sunday night. In the days when I could command decent money, I would have been looking at something far more attractive than a computer screen even if it was Sunday night!

[alabala]

Don´t get me wrong. House prices throughtout the world are overvalued full stop. No disagreement. What I´m disappointed in is that it´s just a sad reflection of society in general that people want to agressively sneer and laugh at others failures like some kind of drunken football fan. Yes there are people who shouldn´t have taken mortgages, yes there are people who thought they were the next Rachman, but failure will be bad for everyone. I have family and friends who are priced out of owning their own homes but I´m sure deep down they will be uncomfortable with someone elses loss helping their gain. But then again, they are reasonable human beings. Perhaps they are not suited to modern society.

Mark, sorry to ask you but why are you so afraid of recession, people and human beings in general have done better in such conditions, general wealth feeling have done nothing positive to our human society.

What we have here is classic existential question, why on earth I am different than the others, why these people have something and I don’t…

Generally people will answer: well you have to work harder, you have to study harder and you have to fight to better yourself.

Why is it Mark that we always have to do something to be better, to have more and to spend more?If somebody will suffer from recession is not because of me and you Mark, we have done nothing to feel guilty about. My belief is that we need serious recession so we can change the way that we live today, so we don’t have to suffer again.

Perhaps you are right, these people will have to face the reality and will have to learn what realism is, unfortunately the accepted rules of capitalism are - somebody has to win and somebody has to lose “Pennies don't fall from heaven; they have to be earned here on earth”

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/22952/spanis...-nightmare.html

Mark, seriously do you pity the Spanish Fraudulent market, these people have ripped of their fellow European Citizens , people who turned their shithole into a modern country and you are saying that they don’t deserve what they are getting now, they need a dose of their own medicine as well as Italy.

[markinspain]

Mark, sorry to ask you but why are you so afraid of recession, people and human beings in general have done better in such conditions, general wealth feeling have done nothing positive to our human society.

What we have here is classic existential question, why on earth I am different than the others, why these people have something and I don’t…

Generally people will answer: well you have to work harder, you have to study harder and you have to fight to better yourself.

Why is it Mark that we always have to do something to be better, to have more and to spend more?If somebody will suffer from recession is not because of me and you Mark, we have done nothing to feel guilty about. My belief is that we need serious recession so we can change the way that we live today, so we don’t have to suffer again.

Perhaps you are right, these people will have to face the reality and will have to learn what realism is, unfortunately the accepted rules of capitalism are - somebody has to win and somebody has to lose “Pennies don't fall from heaven; they have to be earned here on earth”

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/22952/spanis...-nightmare.html

Mark, seriously do you pity the Spanish Fraudulent market, these people have ripped of their fellow European Citizens , people who turned their shithole into a modern country and you are saying that they don’t deserve what they are getting now, they need a dose of their own medicine as well as Italy.

Alabala,

For your first point, have you got any evidence? I'm sure that anyone who was looking for work in the late 70's or early 80's would beg to differ.

For the second point, I guess it comes down to value structure. Coming from a relatively poor, background I was determind to 'get on' in life as we are all indoctrinated to do thesedays. However, I always had the long term goal of buying my freedom rather than owning things, which I have achieved to a certain extent but I'm not sure you can ever do completely. People are taught to consume from an early age and as one of the other posters wrote the other day, it's only when you are older you are confident enough to be yourself, rather than to buy things to fit in.

For the third point, I don't think a great recession would even up the world as you hope. As always, the wealthy will have the means to protect themselves, while the rest will be left to fight among themselves, not forgetting that Britain is a much less tolerant place and far more aggressive than it was during the 70's. It may not be pretty.

Finally, I wouldn't single out the Spaniards alone for ripping off their fellow European citizens. There are plenty of other countries who have been doing (French Farmers) and will do in the future (Eastern Europe). Britain permitted the money to go this way a price for being allowed in Europe and being able to carry out the real FO position of controlling Europe by keeping the Russians out, the Americans in and the Germans down. For hapless holiday home owners, as the great anti-hero Gordon Gekko said in Wall St 'A fool and his money are lucky to get together in the first place', but as I said a world wide recession will not be pleasant. Perhaps the Spaniards just feel like getting their own back for Britain's treachary during the Civil War.

Edited September 10, 2007 by markinspain

[alabala]

Alabala,

For your first point, have you got any evidence? I'm sure that anyone who was looking for work in the late 70's or early 80's would beg to differ.

Porcupines in winter: The pleasure and pains of living together in modern Britain

Buonfino A and Mulgan G

http://society.guardian.co.uk/communities/...1688280,00.html

Equally momentous has been the transition from a largely industrial society to an economy based on services. In 1881, Slough was mostly rural, with only 13% of its workers in manufacturing. By the 70s, this had risen to 53%; by the early 2000s it was back down to 16%. Although these changes have left most people wealthier, they have also left millions less secure. The biggest growth in jobs has been at the prestigious top and insecure bottom.

A more subtle, collateral effect of deindustrialisation is the partial disappearance of poor and working-class Britain from public view and power. In the 50s, even the poorest areas contained people with experience of leadership - foremen, shop stewards; today, there are communities where there is no one with experience of comparable roles. Respect for the hard-working values of the poor has declined: the old white working class is dismissed as racist and unreconstructed, while the newer working classes from Asia and the Caribbean are seen as dangerous sources of crime or terrorism.

50 years of research...well basically it's the gap between wealthy and poor that is important, recession is not what matters, people will survive and still survive in poor countries, don't forget that only 1/3 of the world have the privilege to be developed.

Whatever Mark, I am as well as you an Ordinary Citizen, and believe it or not I am not in position to achieve anything by just contemplating on housepricecrash or global recession or ripping people.

I can only add to our discussion that whatever happens, happens for a reason.

Edited September 11, 2007 by alabala