Britain Is A Small Country With Limited Space

[munimula]

(A) “Britain is a small country in which space is limited,

there’s hardly room for anyone to live anyway, so we have

to live crowded together”

This is a frequently stated view that seems to be widely held.

Britain is an overcrowded small island, with little green

space left, all of which, if possible, should be preserved

before it runs out. A view neatly encapsulated in a remark

by someone in a recent television programme, who said she

wanted to preserve the field behind her house from development

just so that people in the future would know what

a field looked like. In fact, Britain is not overdeveloped

when compared to other European countries. The most

careful post-war study of land use statistics was carried out

by Robin Best. He found that only 8 per cent of the land in

the United Kingdom was ‘urban’. The urban proportion was

higher in the Netherlands (15 per cent), Belgium (14.6 per

cent),West Germany (11.8 per cent), and Denmark (9 per

cent). He also found that the proportion of the UK which

was used for agriculture was the highest in the old European

Economic Community, 78 per cent compared with an

average of 64.2 percent.37

There is no reason to suspect that the position has

changed significantly since Best carried out his research.

Indeed, given the stringency of the British planning system

the urban proportion has, if anything, increased far more

in other countries than in Britain. This was even confirmed

in the Rogers Report. Figure 8 is taken from the Report and

shows that the assertion that England is a country that is

slowly being buried under tarmac is simply not true. 35.1

million inhabitants live in cities of more than 20,000

inhabitants. These are roughly three quarters of the total

population. Yet, these people only use 7.2 per cent of the

land. What this means is that, contrary to popular belief,

we are not living on a crowded and urbanised island, but

only in crowded and extremely dense cities.

[zag2me]

But everyone wants to live in the south east, and retire to the south west

With the unlimited immegration that is happening this is only going to get worse, especially around major cities.

Edited July 20, 2006 by zag2me

[OzzMosiz]

Japans crowded and look what happened to them in the 90's

[Jimmy James]

The rural HPC faction fights back

[apom]

The rural HPC faction fights back

Superb, I drive around this country.. It's fields.. that is all it is..

Take a look at google Earth..

one big field..

London is overcrowded...? Really..

Of course it is.. duh..

[Jimmy James]

Superb, I drive around this country.. It's fields.. that is all it is..

Take a look at google Earth..

one big field..

London is overcrowded...? Really..

Of course it is.. duh..

And what would you like to have in its place - more places for you to drive your modeo around?

Bleedin townie

[Guest Alright Jack]

Superb, I drive around this country.. It's fields.. that is all it is..

Take a look at google Earth..

one big field..

London is overcrowded...? Really..

Of course it is.. duh..

DICK!

Yeah, I mean, who needs to grow cabbages, maize, wheat, barley, cauliflowers, swedes, turnips, onions, potatos, raddishes, lettuce, garlic, carrots, tomatos, raise cattle and forest lumber...

I mean, it's not like we need to bother really. WE IMPORT TWICE THE AMOUNT OF FOOD GOODS AS WE EXPORT... Why don't we just import it all.

[dnd]

I keep remembering a sig (from a member here I think?) that says 90% of the population lives on 8% of the land

There is some serious land hourding going on...

Edited July 20, 2006 by dnd

[apom]

And what would you like to have in its place - more places for you to drive your modeo around?

Bleedin townie

Devon, live in the country..

I drive an alfa romeo.. and a triumph..

I like the romance in my vehicles..

I am not chewing on straw.. but I am also a long way from being a townie..

this green and pleasent land.... is still green and pleasent..

DICK!

Yeah, I mean, who needs to grow cabbages, maize, wheat, barley, cauliflowers, swedes, turnips, onions, potatos, raddishes, lettuce, garlic, carrots, tomatos, raise cattle and forest lumber...

I mean, it's not like we need to bother really. WE IMPORT TWICE THE AMOUNT OF FOOD GOODS AS WE EXPORT... Why don't we just import it all.

we only need another .002 % for all of the housing the experts tell us we need..

I am an expert and we have enough property..

I never said tarmac the cotswolds did I?

dick to you ... Mr over reaction..

"Boo hoo.. he said we can build into the green bits.... booo hooo that must mean he wants to destroy every flower in the world... Boo hoo..."

fields are us impacting nature.. if we had left it alone it would be forests..

so stop crying..

[munimula]

this green and pleasent land.... is still green and pleasent..

It's becoming a green land full of peasants

[Charlie Don't Surf]

I think the term overcrowded is subjective. Depends if how much you like other people/vs open space I guess.

What I know is what I see. And I can see 'garden grabbing', brownfield developments all being turned into luxury appartments with a few token affordable ones and worst of all rural towns expanding to join up with and swallow adjacent villages in a sprawl of suburbs and industrial estates that are forced out of town by afore mentioned developments.

I guess none of you are environmentalists or care about food miles. I expect some of you use the argument that burning oil has no adverse effects. Oh well, maybe I should stop caring too as it seems to be like pissing in the wind!

[munimula]

I guess none of you are environmentalists or care about food miles. I expect some of you use the argument that burning oil has no adverse effects. Oh well, maybe I should stop caring too as it seems to be like pissing in the wind!

This is a totally different argument. The building of some houses on some of the green fields would have absolutely no effect on our ability to produce food. We do not use anywhere near 100% of the available UK agricultural land.

[Als]

I think the term overcrowded is subjective. Depends if how much you like other people/vs open space I guess.

What I know is what I see. And I can see 'garden grabbing', brownfield developments all being turned into luxury appartments with a few token affordable ones and worst of all rural towns expanding to join up with and swallow adjacent villages in a sprawl of suburbs and industrial estates that are forced out of town by afore mentioned developments.

I guess none of you are environmentalists or care about food miles. I expect some of you use the argument that burning oil has no adverse effects. Oh well, maybe I should stop caring too as it seems to be like pissing in the wind!

I share your viewpoint. To me what matters is quality of life and that is being fast eroded in the UK by shameless commercialism unprevented by government.

[munimula]

I share your viewpoint. To me what matters is quality of life and that is being fast eroded in the UK by shameless commercialism unprevented by government.

Exactly. Planning laws and restrictions to build mean that only the large commercial builders can get hold of land to build on and they carpet this land with cheaply built boxes that all look the same.

Free up some land, allow people more freedom to build what they want on their land (controlled through planning of course) and we would have the chance to build better housing, better quality, better asthetically, different and more interesting.

[lulu]

This is a totally different argument. The building of some houses on some of the green fields would have absolutely no effect on our ability to produce food. We do not use anywhere near 100% of the available UK agricultural land.

Correct, because this government seems to be treating farmers with the same contempt as FTB's

They seem to think Britain can do without both

Yet at the same time our society thinks it acceptable to fly green beans in from Kenya transport apples from New Zealand whilst at the same time complaining about giving farmers grants to maintain the land.

The most annoying thing is that most of the food we import is utter crap - the French send us food they wouldnt eat and some of the tasteless rubbish that passes for fruit nowadays is truely dreadful. You go to a French supermarket and it is fulled with mostly top quality local produce (organic is rarely even an option as the French consumer is not half as guilable as the UK one.....)

My argument is that we could and should use all available agricultural land for agriculture. Our food is cheaper now that it has ever been but we are paying more in respect to its standard - most imported food - is tasteless rubbish of questionable standard (especially the meat from South America)

and worst of the lot transport water - YES WATER hundreds of miles from France (and even Fiji!) FFS

[apom]

apom is going to upset people with this one.

Interesting fact, the vast majority of Britains fields are now fallow.

Or doing nothing at all.

If man had not "pointlessly" ripped out the forests we would not have a Co2 problem in the UK.

The damage done to the environment by our cities pales in comparison to our destruction of the once great forests, damage caused by farming, not cities.

A townie looks at the fields and see countryside, a country lad looks at the forests and sees countryside.

Looks at the fields and sees destruction.

I am a country lad..

I am trying to spark discussion here.. not anger..interesting point though?

[munimula]

apom is going to upset people with this one.

Interesting fact, the vast majority of Britains fields are now fallow.

Or doing nothing at all.

If man had not "pointlessly" ripped out the forests we would not have a Co2 problem in the UK.

The damage done to the environment by our cities pales in comparison to our destruction of the once great forests, damage caused by farming, not cities.

A townie looks at the fields and see countryside, a country lad looks at the forests and sees countryside.

Looks at the fields and sees destruction.

I am a country lad..

I am trying to spark discussion here.. not anger..interesting point though?

I'm a countryside refugee. I like fields as much as the next person. But fields that I have no access to because they are owned by someone else, fields that only a handful of people look out on - I'd rather have a reasonable sized home at a reasonable cost, somewhere to bring up a family, perhaps with a garden that I can look out on. My little piece of 'countryside'

[Als]

Correct, because this government seems to be treating farmers with the same contempt as FTB's

They seem to think Britain can do without both

Yet at the same time our society thinks it acceptable to fly green beans in from Kenya transport apples from New Zealand whilst at the same time complaining about giving farmers grants to maintain the land.

The most annoying thing is that most of the food we import is utter crap - the French send us food they wouldnt eat and some of the tasteless rubbish that passes for fruit nowadays is truely dreadful. You go to a French supermarket and it is fulled with mostly top quality local produce (organic is rarely even an option as the French consumer is not half as guilable as the UK one.....)

My argument is that we could and should use all available agricultural land for agriculture. Our food is cheaper now that it has ever been but we are paying more in respect to its standard - most imported food - is tasteless rubbish of questionable standard (especially the meat from South America)

and worst of the lot transport water - YES WATER hundreds of miles from France (and even Fiji!) FFS

A little while ago Prince Charles highlighted the danger of relying on foreign imported produce in a world where the climate is changing so rapidly. I think this shows great foresight but will no doubt be ignored because of commercial pressure. I genuinely think that we are in state of terminal decline now. We will destroy ourselves.

[munimula]

I have thought of buying a big farm and letting it return to the wild. But recently, I think it's too late - not that a single action could sway it, anyway.

Now that's the kind of countryside that I would want to protect.

So now I'm just loving everything green, before it goes brown.

Flew in from Italy on tues - right now it is all brown. Couldn't recognise it as the UK.

[Als]

A taste of what's to come?

I don't want to sound too maudlin. I prefer intelligence to the ecosphere, (indeed I think it only has any value because we are intelligent enough to recognise that - nature itself doesn't give a monkey's and would happily burn the Earth to a crisp with a solar flare), and I'm sure intelligence can eventually divorce itself from it's biological roots, but I hope beautiful biology has a plenty of time left, just for its own sake.

This is where I depart from your understanding. I believe that contemporary people are increasingly removed intellectually from nature and it will have a huge negative impact. It's impossible to foretell the future, but perhaps the kind of technological economic development which we have seen in the past two hundred years is in direct contradiction to a stable climate. Tony Blair unwittingly admitted as much when he said that we have to be realistic about the politics involved. I also believe that all of the scientific analysis which is monitoring climate change just indicates the impotence of human beings to actually do anything about it. I posit the idea that human beings would have to change so radically that it will simply not be possible.

[Without_a_Paddle]

I have thought of buying a big farm and letting it return to the wild. But recently, I think it's too late - not that a single action could sway it in the tiniest way, anyway.

(I used to think that about some poor eco-activist friends. They'd be peeling foil carefully off their yoghurt pots, while in a hundred patio-heated neighbouring gardens pyres of smoke billowed from a hundred BBQs as bottles and foil and cans were thrown into a hundred bin liners faster than you could count.)

So now I'm just loving everything green, before it goes brown.

Pretty much all my life I've lived on the edge of towns where the countryside is in view from at least one direction.

The ideal 'garden' for me would be one I could look out over and not need to do anything to. (i.e. let the bulk of it grow wild)

Where I work we recently had this when we moved to a new premises. It looked out over an adjacent 'field site' (bigger than a football pitch) that had been left untouched for just a few years. There was an abundance of wildlife and it was great to simply look out of the back windows (at lunchtime!) and relax whilst looking for any signs of (wildlife) activity. There was even a natural mini lake area with ducks etc.

Sadly it's all gone now as someone, somewhere saw it as being too scruffy. It's been converted to a lawn area but it has definately inspired me.

At present I've got one of the last 'normal' gardens left in my area. i.e. a lawn and trees and borders etc. It's great to sit out in the Summer evenings listening to at least 'some' wildlife buzzing around the garden with the odd toad and hedgehog paying a visit.

Everyone else has obviously been glued to 'groundforce' on the TV and they now have decking or gravel and maybe a few shrub areas with bark chippings if you are lucky.

Top of my list for house #2 is a decent garden area. Probably an acre.