How To Control The People

[faloos]

History has shown the many ways that rulers control the people. The most used are and were by the Gun, Starvation , eviction, unemployment and ofcourse the latest which is Debt.

You encourage the masses to take on as much debt then allow cheap labour to enter the country and bingo ! you now have a population that are frigtened to lose their jobs and social status , they become subservient to their employers and the employer can then sqeeze and ask you to jump as and when required and the only answer you can give will be How high ?

And what do the population get for working to keep this debt ? well they get the pleasure of talking about how much their house has increased in value over dinner with like minded friends (for how long? ).

The masses today seem to be taking this all on the chin . They are more interested in watching big brother and buying all that expensive clothing that was made in sweat shops from China and the like.

The people have to waken up and hound their MP with their worries about house prices etc.

We were more vocal in the 60s to 80s but now act sheepily.

Waken up as when the crunch comes and house prices fall like dominoes the banks will act like the B_____s they are and take your home , car without shedding a tear.

Have you notice how the banks language has changed over the past year? gone from "dont miss the BTL band wagon" to be very careful as "property can go down as well as up".

Wait and see the property companies when they sell their portfolios, its no good them trying to explain at their AGM how they lost 30% of the business you can bet your boots they will start to dump their housing stock very soon .

Faloos

Best of luck some will need it !!

Edited July 9, 2006 by faloos

[RichB]

You missed fear, religion and hate.

[faloos]

You missed fear, religion and hate.

Yes governments have tried them all, Thanks

[HAL]

History has shown the many ways that rulers control the people. The most used are and were by the Gun, Starvation , eviction, unemployment and ofcourse the latest which is Debt.

You encourage the masses to take on as much debt then allow cheap labour to enter the country and bingo ! you now have a population that are frigtened to lose their jobs and social status , they become subservient to their employers and the employer can then sqeeze and ask you to jump as and when required and the only answer you can give will be How high ?

And what do the population get for working to keep this debt ? well they get the pleasure of talking about how much their house has increased in value over dinner with like minded friends (for how long? ).

The masses today seem to be taking this all on the chin . They are more interested in watching big brother and buying all that expensive clothing that was made in sweat shops from China and the like.

The people have to waken up and hound their MP with their worries about house prices etc.

We were more vocal in the 60s to 80s but now act sheepily.

Waken up as when the crunch comes and house prices fall like dominoes the banks will act like the B_____s they are and take your home , car without shedding a tear.

Have you notice how the banks language has changed over the past year? gone from "dont miss the BTL band wagon" to be very careful as "property can go down as well as up".

Wait and see the property companies when they sell their portfolios, its no good them trying to explain at their AGM how they lost 30% of the business you can bet your boots they will start to dump their housing stock very soon .

Faloos

Best of luck some will need it !!

Freedom is hard won and everyone has a duty to protect themselves against domination by anyone or any organisation. I am not sure that debt slavery is a deliberate ploy by this government - but I could well believe that it is a side effect of their policies mixed with with the side effects of globalisation. Either way people will have to wisen up if they are not to be debt slaves for surley that is the way they are headed - a prison of their own making.

HAL

[better-than-expected]

Very good point but i feel the simplest way to sum it up is divide and rule.

It works in every situation.

Edited July 9, 2006 by g75f

[bob2]

This is what was behind Thatcher pushing "right-to-buy" for council tenants in the 1980s. The idea was - when people risk eviction because of missed mortgage payments they will be less likely to strike than when council tenants.

Edited July 9, 2006 by bob2

[DONT PANIC !!! DONT PANIC !!!]

History has shown the many ways that rulers control the people. The most used are and were by the Gun, Starvation , eviction, unemployment and ofcourse the latest which is Debt.

You encourage the masses to take on as much debt then allow cheap labour to enter the country and bingo ! you now have a population that are frigtened to lose their jobs and social status , they become subservient to their employers and the employer can then sqeeze and ask you to jump as and when required and the only answer you can give will be How high ?

And what do the population get for working to keep this debt ? well they get the pleasure of talking about how much their house has increased in value over dinner with like minded friends (for how long? ).

The masses today seem to be taking this all on the chin . They are more interested in watching big brother and buying all that expensive clothing that was made in sweat shops from China and the like.

The people have to waken up and hound their MP with their worries about house prices etc.

We were more vocal in the 60s to 80s but now act sheepily.

Waken up as when the crunch comes and house prices fall like dominoes the banks will act like the B_____s they are and take your home , car without shedding a tear.

Have you notice how the banks language has changed over the past year? gone from "dont miss the BTL band wagon" to be very careful as "property can go down as well as up".

Wait and see the property companies when they sell their portfolios, its no good them trying to explain at their AGM how they lost 30% of the business you can bet your boots they will start to dump their housing stock very soon .

Faloos

Best of luck some will need it !!

Whilst i agree with most of what you said I dont think the banks are any worse than anyone else involved in HPI. Just like EA's they want to make as much money as they can, just like the company i now work for and every other i've worked for previously. Everyone is out for themselves including often greedy and green BTL's, if houses crash it means they were driven to high by stupid buyers which isnt the banks fault and if i owned a bank id want to get my money back. By the way im also out for myself and i think my interest are best served by seeing how things develop

[Justice]

Hal

"Freedom is hard won and everyone has a duty to protect themselves against domination by anyone or any organisation.

Yes but sometimes people need to organise to change things and government loves nothing better than dividing the people because they know that united their days of milking us dry will be ended and a few will be thrown in nick.

I am not sure that debt slavery is a deliberate ploy by this government

You must be joking right !

for every pound you spend you must first earn and that means paying income tax, hell if i was inline for your income tax i would be telling you to buy, buy , buy

maybe when you have nothing to loose you will fight back, this is what will happen given time but those that have been milking us will all be onthe other side of the world by then

[Guest mattsta1964]

Whilst i agree with most of what you said I dont think the banks are any worse than anyone else involved in HPI. Just like EA's they want to make as much money as they can, just like the company i now work for and every other i've worked for previously. Everyone is out for themselves including often greedy and green BTL's, if houses crash it means they were driven to high by stupid buyers which isnt the banks fault and if i owned a bank id want to get my money back. By the way im also out for myself and i think my interest are best served by seeing how things develop

Not the banks' fault?????

In case you hadn't realised, the banks now totally control the money supply. 97% of all money in circulation is debt money. They run the world. Democracy is dead. Even the political parties are bankrupt, both idealogically and fiinancially. 'Give me a peerage and I'll lend your party some money.....providing your policies are advantageous to me!'

Wakey wakey mate!

[Bingley Bloke]

History has shown the many ways that rulers control the people. The most used are and were by the Gun, Starvation , eviction, unemployment and ofcourse the latest which is Debt.

Good observation.

Some time ago I knew a guy who got into a bit of recreational drug use. It became a bit of a regular thing for him and eventually messed his life up. Over a number of years he got things back on track but the hardest part was severing links with his habit. The guy he got his stuff from used to give him it and tell him he could pay when he came for the next lot. Basically, he was always owing. When he kicked the stuff he went along to pay off what he owed but the dealer wouldn't let him unless he took some more. Eventually he managed to get the dealer to take his money but it was a struggle.

Banks seem to be somewhat similar. They're always pushing credit cards and loans. I'm going to write a spiel about debt and stick it in the 'Business Reply Service' envelopes that come with the stuff they post to me and send it back to them.

[Charles_Darke]

You missed fear, religion and hate.

You missed the most succesful: television and 'democracy'.

[RichB]

The best TV is all Hate with a bit of Fear, Democracy is just Fear with a bit of Hate.

[HAL]

Hal

Yes but sometimes people need to organise to change things and government loves nothing better than dividing the people because they know that united their days of milking us dry will be ended and a few will be thrown in nick.

You must be joking right !

for every pound you spend you must first earn and that means paying income tax, hell if i was inline for your income tax i would be telling you to buy, buy , buy

maybe when you have nothing to loose you will fight back, this is what will happen given time but those that have been milking us will all be onthe other side of the world by then

Do you propose a revolt? against what exactley - taxes?

You can use your vote to change things! - the governmnet is'nt static - it changes. As for taxes - how do you propose we run a country without them?

I sugest what you have a problem with is this NuLabour government that as far as I can tell does not command the deepest respect and in fact I woul say is not trusted - so much so that many people are starting to get suspicious about their ulterior motives. I too do not like their interminable spin and their lack of truth and popularist policies - all very short termist and spun.

Its easy to get cynical

HAL

[Justice]

HAL

Voting Nu-Labour out will change nothing as the three parties are all in bed together and all occupier the centre ground so it’s a bit like having a vote where you get to choose between the Mafia and the IRA

Just when did you see a major change proposed by these parties that we the people would be able measure, does the Cons tell people to go on strike over petrol taxes. The only fight I’ve seen in the past ten years was when George Galloway got stuck in even if he is a prat.

You ask about taxes well they take over 60% of my money and I don’t have bin men empting my bins ten times a day or new roads being built so I can save on petrol costs, hell for the amount we are paying we should all have permanently assigned government employee for 6 hours a day to ponder to our every needs as this is the level they are taxing people at.

Clearly our democracy is not working as our so called elected leaders will not do as the majority of people want and when a system becomes so corrupt as it is then it’s time the people took the power back from these thugs by force if necessary.

A few things are for sure like your taxes continuing to rise , more immigrants being let in and you losing more of rights on the push toward ID cards in the fight against terrorists now apart from the BNP just what party is proposing to do anything real about these problems apart from cooking the books to tell us it fixed.

We are talking about arrogant thugs that built a big marquee costing at least £1bn of our taxes just so they could all be nice and snug together as they welcome in the new millennium and now they are all scrambling to profit as it’s sold. Did the people get asked if they agreed with there taxes being spent in this way and can they do anything about it, it’s a big NO NO and that’s why we need to kick them all out and start again.

[HAL]

HAL

Voting Nu-Labour out will change nothing as the three parties are all in bed together and all occupier the centre ground so it’s a bit like having a vote where you get to choose between the Mafia and the IRA

Just when did you see a major change proposed by these parties that we the people would be able measure, does the Cons tell people to go on strike over petrol taxes. The only fight I’ve seen in the past ten years was when George Galloway got stuck in even if he is a prat.

You ask about taxes well they take over 60% of my money and I don’t have bin men empting my bins ten times a day or new roads being built so I can save on petrol costs, hell for the amount we are paying we should all have permanently assigned government employee for 6 hours a day to ponder to our every needs as this is the level they are taxing people at.

Clearly our democracy is not working as our so called elected leaders will not do as the majority of people want and when a system becomes so corrupt as it is then it’s time the people took the power back from these thugs by force if necessary.

A few things are for sure like your taxes continuing to rise , more immigrants being let in and you losing more of rights on the push toward ID cards in the fight against terrorists now apart from the BNP just what party is proposing to do anything real about these problems apart from cooking the books to tell us it fixed.

We are talking about arrogant thugs that built a big marquee costing at least £1bn of our taxes just so they could all be nice and snug together as they welcome in the new millennium and now they are all scrambling to profit as it’s sold. Did the people get asked if they agreed with there taxes being spent in this way and can they do anything about it, it’s a big NO NO and that’s why we need to kick them all out and start again.

Justice,

Reluctantly and despondantly I agree with what you say. Our democratic system has gone AWOL. It is dominated by "jobbing" politicains no longer able to see the right from wrong - if ever they could - big ideas, big taxes, big egos and big spending. Unfortunatley these ideas are pet projects, a gamble to secure some politician a 'legacy' with the tax payers money at stake. They are very thinly veiled as good for the people - you see their motivation for introduction change with the wind and day by day, reacting and changing with the latest new report and crisis. ID cards - fight against terorrism, no, helps to control immigration, no, next excuse?.

The list of spending sins is almost endless - either they are thick or they are spending instead of throwing the money out of a helicopter. I genuinely feel that they are arrogant and incompetent. I have no disrespect for local authorities, they do what they do and generally do it quite well - they are however dictated to by the centre with endless new initiatives and target which they have to comply with, like it or not. This is at best a distraction and in most cases results in money being farmed out from the centre to spend on non-core, non-essential hair brained schemes that no one has bought into, has no interest in or wants to implement.

Take this and magnify a thousand fold across the NHS and other departments and the growing number of projects that are designed to fail (ID cards, the NHS central booking system, etc...) and you have the makings of a national disaster. This government had a surplus and it has spent our hard earned legacy on tat that has not been thought through, does not work and has no useful purpose. Where are the efficiencies? Where is the improvement?

I have direct experience in dealing with outsourcing in government and I can catagorically say that money is currently wasted in no uncertain way - it is criminal the disregard for tax payers money.

What we need is a measure that everyone can understand to see if government is working - i.e. a 'basket of services' that we can measure against the cost of providing these services. This is what I believe that citizens have a right to see - a kind of CPI of services. Any takers on what this would show?

On the subject of 'are all parties playing to the same basic agenda' - then again I'd have to reluctantly agree but only because they have the same issues with the demographics - same number of people, the same world economics situation. Its just that their end goal and means are different. Personally I prefer the Tories as they are not so profligate with tax payers money. It maybe the lesser of two evils but in my view its the less harmfull of the two.

What are the alternatives?

- I'd like to see a total separation of local government from central

- A non elected local goverment that simply serves the people with basic services and local taxation to support this with published measures (CPI style) so that tax payers can see what they are getting - not dictated to by central government

- Central government with clear objectives and timeframes so that we know what we are supposed to be getting and when

Todays politician can fail on all counts and we would never know as their policy is agenda is vague, policy is even vaguer and there planning and administration skills even worse. Can't remember seeing in the NuLabour manifesto a policy on introducing system gambling into the UK and creating masses of debt can you - they seem to have thought this one up all by themselves - bless!

HAL

[faloos]

HAL

Voting Nu-Labour out will change nothing as the three parties are all in bed together and all occupier the centre ground so it’s a bit like having a vote where you get to choose between the Mafia and the IRA

Just when did you see a major change proposed by these parties that we the people would be able measure, does the Cons tell people to go on strike over petrol taxes. The only fight I’ve seen in the past ten years was when George Galloway got stuck in even if he is a prat.

You ask about taxes well they take over 60% of my money and I don’t have bin men empting my bins ten times a day or new roads being built so I can save on petrol costs, hell for the amount we are paying we should all have permanently assigned government employee for 6 hours a day to ponder to our every needs as this is the level they are taxing people at.

Clearly our democracy is not working as our so called elected leaders will not do as the majority of people want and when a system becomes so corrupt as it is then it’s time the people took the power back from these thugs by force if necessary.

A few things are for sure like your taxes continuing to rise , more immigrants being let in and you losing more of rights on the push toward ID cards in the fight against terrorists now apart from the BNP just what party is proposing to do anything real about these problems apart from cooking the books to tell us it fixed.

We are talking about arrogant thugs that built a big marquee costing at least £1bn of our taxes just so they could all be nice and snug together as they welcome in the new millennium and now they are all scrambling to profit as it’s sold. Did the people get asked if they agreed with there taxes being spent in this way and can they do anything about it, it’s a big NO NO and that’s why we need to kick them all out and start again.

Yes I agree , I did not agree to the Dome , I must have been sleeping at the time. How many hospitals could that amount af money buy and run ?

[HAL]

HAL

Voting Nu-Labour out will change nothing as the three parties are all in bed together and all occupier the centre ground so it’s a bit like having a vote where you get to choose between the Mafia and the IRA

Just when did you see a major change proposed by these parties that we the people would be able measure, does the Cons tell people to go on strike over petrol taxes. The only fight I’ve seen in the past ten years was when George Galloway got stuck in even if he is a prat.

You ask about taxes well they take over 60% of my money and I don’t have bin men empting my bins ten times a day or new roads being built so I can save on petrol costs, hell for the amount we are paying we should all have permanently assigned government employee for 6 hours a day to ponder to our every needs as this is the level they are taxing people at.

Clearly our democracy is not working as our so called elected leaders will not do as the majority of people want and when a system becomes so corrupt as it is then it’s time the people took the power back from these thugs by force if necessary.

A few things are for sure like your taxes continuing to rise , more immigrants being let in and you losing more of rights on the push toward ID cards in the fight against terrorists now apart from the BNP just what party is proposing to do anything real about these problems apart from cooking the books to tell us it fixed.

We are talking about arrogant thugs that built a big marquee costing at least £1bn of our taxes just so they could all be nice and snug together as they welcome in the new millennium and now they are all scrambling to profit as it’s sold. Did the people get asked if they agreed with there taxes being spent in this way and can they do anything about it, it’s a big NO NO and that’s why we need to kick them all out and start again.

Sorry - needed to also address your 'apparent' admiration for the BNP or at least one of there pet subjects.

Now that is what I can a bunch of brutal thugs in suites.

I remember being given a leaflet by one of these nice BNP people in the centre of Manchester - when I casually put it in the bin I was chased through the town centre and I can assure you the intent was not peaceful on their part.

I thought we were talking about real politics here not neo-nazi, up and coming brute force suppression tactics that would surely be employed by those criminals in suits.

Sorry mate - we have to distinguise between the 'intent' and what is being said.

- BNP

Intent - keep foreigners out

Goal - throw all resident foreigners out - and keep our race pure

- Labour

Intent - control immigration - no means

Goal - let them in to control wage inflation, raise house prices and pay taxes

- Tories

Intent - control immigation - with a quota and by means of point system

Goal - supliment the labour market with necessary skills

HAL

[Justice]

HAL

i'm not sure i beleive your story about the BNP and you seem to confuse protecting jobs and our way of life with gas chambers and Hittler. Did you know that many countries look after their own people first so maybe you should attack them as being racist first.

People will vote BNP as the UK is being flooded by immigrants and this forces wages down and house prices up

[HovelinHove]

The future is for someone to start an internet based party that is formed on the basis of changing our democracy forever and implementing a system where we run our country in a truly democratic fashion where all major issues are voted on by either the entire electorate or a proportion (say 10,000 who represent the entire political spectrum from BNP to Greenpeace) who are tested on each topic they are voting for. The key posts within govt/administration would be decided by groups of this electorate with special interest or kowledge of these areas (eg NHS by Doctors and nurses).

This party could raise funds through the internet, and then challenge at elections, and once a majority is achieved begin implimeting the necessary changes. There would be no specific policies other than to hand over the choice to the people (those who are informed) and make our aim as a nation to improve the quality of life of its existing citizens. This would take control of our democracy out of the hands of the corporations that back our MPs. The first law I would pass would be for corporate bosses to be legally accountable to all stakeholders, not just shareholders, so the kind of situation we have with Thames water will not occur in the future. The next law people could vote on would be to pass a second property tax, staggered over a period of five years to allow those who have one and want to get out, to sell. To vote, the voters would need to have read articles by the opposing camps in the debates and answer questions showing they fully understand the issue.

Of course there would need to be leaders, but their roles would be more as representatives of the people, rather than masters, and they could be voted out once a year if they weren't up to the job.

[HAL]

HAL

i'm not sure i beleive your story about the BNP and you seem to confuse protecting jobs and our way of life with gas chambers and Hittler. Did you know that many countries look after their own people first so maybe you should attack them as being racist first.

People will vote BNP as the UK is being flooded by immigrants and this forces wages down and house prices up

Justice,

Its time for you to get real.

What you believe and who you believe is up to you - I am relating a story that is true, the BNP in my view and from my experience acted like thugs - plain and simple - or do would you like to spin that on behalf of the BNP?

If you have a problem with uncontrolled immigration - which you seem to (and so do I) - then you are at liberty to vote for whome you like to check this. Personally I would not vote for those goose stepping sh*ts.

Any issues with this or would you like to chase me through the streets of Manchester too?

Best regard

HAL