Why Won't My Friends Listen?

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

She 'fell in love' with a tiny 1 bd flat in Stoke Newington - asking price £169,999 she offered £160K which was refused, as she wanted the flat so much made a second offer of £165K which has been accepted.

Sorry if this is of no interest to those outside London but I am just stunned that people are still shelling out huge sums.

Lovely Lolly

The thing is with Stokey is that there's only a handful of roads there you'd actually want to live in. Church St is nice for a night out, but it doesn't mean you have to live there. But that's the London market unfortunately, it is probably more sentiment driven than anywhere else (I mean, at least in other parts of the country you have some beautiful scenery!).

I like to go out around Upper St in Islington fairly often, but I wouldn't want to live round there. A friend of mine does, she says it's very convenient for work, but she's tired of the crime and the grime.

Like you said, you're friends aren't stupid, it's more about panic: 'if not now, when?' And piece of mind is what they are after. And people will pay for peace of mind - this is why we shell out on insurance.

What *is* daft is paying out on an interest-only mortgage. If we are in for a long-haul crash that bottoms out some 30% lower in 2011 as some of the gurus here are predicting, then maybe it makes sense to buy in London if you can answer 'yes' to the following:

1/ You are in your mid-30s and don't want to wait any longer: to wait till 2011 means you could be paying off a mortgage until after retirement

2/ You want the 'peace of mind' that comes with having 'your own place'

3/ You have a decent deposit and are taking out a repayment mortgage

By 2011, with a repayment mortage and a decent deposit, you might have paid off a reasonable chunk by 2011, so the 30% drop isn't so painful. OK, so financially you would have been better waiting and keeping the money in the bank, but for many people, life isn't just about having money in the bank.

[Goat]

Sorry if I seem a bit cynical but Lovely Lolly sounds an aweful lot like London Landlady to me. Are we sure that this is not another wind up.

[CrashIsUnderWay]

Attempts by trolls to 'pose' as the opposite of what they are - this example is very nice.

Lovely Lolly pops up onto the board and says "Also, my ex is selling, or trying to, the studio flat we paid 55k for in SW16 in 2001 for 125k. You have got to be joking!! If it sells for that I will eat my hat. All he needs is a sucker, and it seems there are plenty about in London!"

Analyse that. In other words, push property (55k - 125k woopeefookindoo) then attempt to make it look like you disagree with what you just wrote (You have got to be joking!If it sells for that I will eat my hat). Then partly swap back to the dark side (All he needs is a sucker) which both suggests it will be easy to shift (all he needs) and that he is in some sense 'getting one over' the poor potential FTB reduced to buying it ('sucker'). Then confuse the issue even more ('it seems there are plenty [of suckers] about in London!).

Either this person is terminally confused in the midbrain, or is a VI trying desperately hard to create a 'bear' personality with the usual intentions of worming into the soft underslung belly of HPC then attacking later. Which one do u think LL is???? :-) (hope that helps!)

[Goat]

Either this person is terminally confused in the midbrain, or is a VI trying desperately hard to create a 'bear' personality with the usual intentions of worming into the soft underslung belly of HPC then attacking later. Which one do u think LL is???? :-) (hope that helps!)

Looks like a troll trying to prove that all bulls get labelled trolls but bears can post whatever they like.

[shar46y]

I think people of our age are getting tired of waiting (early 30s), and terrified of "missing the boat". A few lucky ones who got good jobs straight out of uni managed to buy in 2000-2001, and are sitting pretty. The rest of us saw prices zoom away faster than we could save.

Me and hubby, long-time lurkers on HPC, decided (after one panicky attempt at buying a one-bed sh*thole in Colindale in 2003) that it made more sense to wait and rent a nice place in a nice area. But several of our friends have taken the plunge and bought this summer! All we can do is shake our heads in disbelief. I don't know, and have never bothered to ask, how much they paid or any other details.

As renters, we are now the minority in our group of friends - they probably talk about us behind our backs: "why haven't they bought? renting is dead money! house prices will never crash!"

[Lovely Lolly]

Sorry if I seem a bit cynical but Lovely Lolly sounds an aweful lot like London Landlady to me. Are we sure that this is not another wind up.

If I make sp mistakes forgive me but I cannot believe this. I said right at the top of this thread that this was my first post and that it had taken me months to pluck up the courage to do so ( I joined I September). I aslo have said consistently in my responses to comments on this thread that I have found the board encouraging. WHY ON EARTH would I bother posting made up details about friends - would you like me to give you their names and conatct details? Would that convince you? What a horrible, nasty way to respond to someone who's new. I hope you're proud of yourself and your paranoia. My name is my nickname and I am not a landlady, and I have not posted before under any other name.

Attempts by trolls to 'pose' as the opposite of what they are - this example is very nice.

Lovely Lolly pops up onto the board and says "Also, my ex is selling, or trying to, the studio flat we paid 55k for in SW16 in 2001 for 125k. You have got to be joking!! If it sells for that I will eat my hat. All he needs is a sucker, and it seems there are plenty about in London!"

Analyse that. In other words, push property (55k - 125k woopeefookindoo) then attempt to make it look like you disagree with what you just wrote (You have got to be joking!If it sells for that I will eat my hat). Then partly swap back to the dark side (All he needs is a sucker) which both suggests it will be easy to shift (all he needs) and that he is in some sense 'getting one over' the poor potential FTB reduced to buying it ('sucker'). Then confuse the issue even more ('it seems there are plenty [of suckers] about in London!).

Either this person is terminally confused in the midbrain, or is a VI trying desperately hard to create a 'bear' personality with the usual intentions of worming into the soft underslung belly of HPC then attacking later. Which one do u think LL is???? :-) (hope that helps!)

Perhaps you should check your facts and read the thread? It wasn't me who posted the styff about the ex selling ethir falt it was someone called winners and losers so doesn that make them a mischief maker or is it just anyone new who joins?

[the don]

Attempts by trolls to 'pose' as the opposite of what they are - this example is very nice.

Lovely Lolly pops up onto the board and says "Also, my ex is selling, or trying to, the studio flat we paid 55k for in SW16 in 2001 for 125k. You have got to be joking!! If it sells for that I will eat my hat. All he needs is a sucker, and it seems there are plenty about in London!"

Analyse that. In other words, push property (55k - 125k woopeefookindoo) then attempt to make it look like you disagree with what you just wrote (You have got to be joking!If it sells for that I will eat my hat). Then partly swap back to the dark side (All he needs is a sucker) which both suggests it will be easy to shift (all he needs) and that he is in some sense 'getting one over' the poor potential FTB reduced to buying it ('sucker'). Then confuse the issue even more ('it seems there are plenty [of suckers] about in London!).

Either this person is terminally confused in the midbrain, or is a VI trying desperately hard to create a 'bear' personality with the usual intentions of worming into the soft underslung belly of HPC then attacking later. Which one do u think LL is???? :-) (hope that helps!)

either this is genuine and lovely lolly has unfairly been labelled a troll

or.. it is a troll. however, if this is a troll post then the standard of trolling on this website has improved. we should be pleased if we are attracting a better class of troll.

[Goat]

If I make sp mistakes forgive me but I cannot believe this. I said right at the top of this thread that this was my first post and that it had taken me months to pluck up the courage to do so ( I joined I September). I aslo have said consistently in my responses to comments on this thread that I have found the board encouraging. WHY ON EARTH would I bother posting made up details about friends - would you like me to give you their names and conatct details? Would that convince you? What a horrible, nasty way to respond to someone who's new. I hope you're proud of yourself and your paranoia. My name is my nickname and I am not a landlady, and I have not posted before under any other name.

My apologies if you are genuine and please keep posting but there are a lot of trolls on this site at the moment and your post looks too good to be true.

[Lovely Lolly]

either this is genuine and lovely lolly has unfairly been labelled a troll

or.. it is a troll. however, if this is a troll post then the standard of trolling on this website has improved. we should be pleased if we are attracting a better class of troll.

I'm waiting for an apology and this really has soured my first experience of posting here. It's both stupid and immature. It takes a lot of courage to post in the first place as you've all been on here a long time maybe you don't appreciate that but if you want people who are new to feel comfortable here then you're going the wrong way about it. I noticed recently someone posted complaining at the number of 'guests' who don't register - well how many more people has this put off.??There was absolutely nothing controversial about my post so am compelely stunned that people can be so small minded.

[Guest Cletus VanDamme]

If I make sp mistakes forgive me but I cannot believe this.

What a horrible, nasty way to respond to someone who's new. I hope you're proud of yourself and your paranoia. My name is my nickname and I am not a landlady, and I have not posted before under any other name.

Unfortunately, LL, your experiences are not unique. I posted for the first time in ages, welcoming in the New Year and suggesting that perhaps we should start the year with some goodwill and optimism and I got flamed by some d**khead called WhoopsApocalypse.

It seems like the only posts welcomed on this forum at the moment are ones which discuss how doomed everyone is, how life sucks, and how Britain is in fact North Korea and we're all going to freeze/starve/go bankrupt/whatever.

[Goat]

I'm waiting for an apology

See my post above.

[the don]

I'm waiting for an apology and this really has soured my first experience of posting here. It's both stupid and immature. It takes a lot of courage to post in the first place as you've all been on here a long time maybe you don't appreciate that but if you want people who are new to feel comfortable here then you're going the wrong way about it. I noticed recently someone posted complaining at the number of 'guests' who don't register - well how many more people has this put off.??There was absolutely nothing controversial about my post so am compelely stunned that people can be so small minded.

lovely lolly

i dont know if you were expecting me to apologise.

my post was meant to be tongue in cheek to soemeone who claimed to have spotted a troll.

if i have offended you, i apologise unreservedly

this website needs genuine new blood and we need to obtain wide ranging experiences and view points.

the don

Edited January 4, 2006 by the don

[Lovely Lolly]

Unfortunately, LL, your experiences are not unique. I posted for the first time in ages, welcoming in the New Year and suggesting that perhaps we should start the year with some goodwill and optimism and I got flamed by some d**khead called WhoopsApocalypse.

It seems like the only posts welcomed on this forum at the moment are ones which discuss how doomed everyone is, how life sucks, and how Britain is in fact North Korea and we're all going to freeze/starve/go bankrupt/whatever.

Thanks for the support. This is just crazy and such a shame, and sad that someone of this thread didn't even quote me but someone else to support their accusations. Obviously people who deliberately wind regulars up are annoying but by reacting like this to a genuine post you (I mean the regulars above)are just playing right into their hands and risk offending newcomers. Well I'm off to calm down and soak in the bath.....

[paradox]

Dont be put off, Lovely Lolly and please keep posting - welcome to the board.

The problem as I see it is this.

If you hang around some bulletin boards you will see that they have completely deteriorated. People post under multiple identities and in rapid succession often cutting and pasting. The intention (believe it or not) is to sabotage the whole thing so that normal conversation becomes impossible.

I used a football supporters bulletin board for a while until it was effectively wiped out as a place of rational discussion by a concerted action by supporters of another team. It sounds childish and it is. This is what the moderators of this board are trying to avoid.

On the other hand they can be overzealous. I enjoyed reading your first post and I noticed that it was Winners and Losers who made the ironic comments regarding a flat in SW16.

[malco]

Hi all

One of my many New Year's resolutions was to finally pluck up the courage to post after a few months viewing this site. There have been many times when I have been made to feel close to despair by well meaning friends who are oo's and have sought solace (and a laugh) from this site as there really has been nowhere else to find counter arguements to all the bull****. Well, tonight I feel well and truly defeated as yet another friend has nearly bought (second in the last few months). She 'fell in love' with a tiny 1 bd flat in Stoke Newington - asking price £169,999 she offered £160K which was refused, as she wanted the flat so much made a second offer of £165K which has been accepted. She earns 16K per year basic and about another £10-15 K from irregular freelance work and her mortgage will be interest only!!! Another friend has just bought what I can only describe as a box, sorry tiny 1 bed (more like a studio) in a block near Baker Street he paid £190K and the asking was £210K, the service charge is a whopping £2400 a year. He is planning to spend abut 20K doing it up over the next year or so and thinks it will sell for £250K so he will make 30K profit. I have put forward all the arguments I can think of to him but he is convinced it will sell for a quarter of a million even with those high service charges and with prices dropping. These are not stupid people but we are all in our mid 30s and they seem to feel they can't wait any longer.

Sorry if this is of no interest to those outside London but I am just stunned that people are still shelling out huge sums.

Lovely Lolly

Although you say they are not stupid people, in fact they are. There is a difference between being intelligent and being clever.

It's basically financial Darwinism in action, the unfit shall suffer. I have zero sympathy with those driven by copying mass trends thoughtlessly.

On the other hand I suspect there will be significant inflation, so your friends probably won't suffer for the rest of their lives, even if they have some tight times in the decade to come.

[Spikey]

If I make sp mistakes forgive me but I cannot believe this. I said right at the top of this thread that this was my first post and that it had taken me months to pluck up the courage to do so ( I joined I September). I aslo have said consistently in my responses to comments on this thread that I have found the board encouraging. WHY ON EARTH would I bother posting made up details about friends - would you like me to give you their names and conatct details? Would that convince you? What a horrible, nasty way to respond to someone who's new. I hope you're proud of yourself and your paranoia. My name is my nickname and I am not a landlady, and I have not posted before under any other name.

Perhaps you should check your facts and read the thread? It wasn't me who posted the styff about the ex selling ethir falt it was someone called winners and losers so doesn that make them a mischief maker or is it just anyone new who joins?

Your not the only one who goes through this lolly! I think it is some kind of bizzarre initiation... Thats the only reason I can find!

Edited January 4, 2006 by Spikey

[Guest Winners and Losers]

Do pay attention CrashIsUnderWay - that was posted by me, not LL. I am definately not a VI. Sold my flat in London in 2002 and bought in Australia. Now returned to UK and just a bit gobsmacked that a studio flat with no garden, no parking and not near a tube could be worth that much! Don't try to analyse me too much, I'm just bitter and twisted because I want to buy in the UK again. However, it is possible that I am terminally confused in the midbrain - prices going up, no down, no up, no down. Perhaps I should stop reading HPC.

Attempts by trolls to 'pose' as the opposite of what they are - this example is very nice.

Lovely Lolly pops up onto the board and says "Also, my ex is selling, or trying to, the studio flat we paid 55k for in SW16 in 2001 for 125k. You have got to be joking!! If it sells for that I will eat my hat. All he needs is a sucker, and it seems there are plenty about in London!"

Analyse that. In other words, push property (55k - 125k woopeefookindoo) then attempt to make it look like you disagree with what you just wrote (You have got to be joking!If it sells for that I will eat my hat). Then partly swap back to the dark side (All he needs is a sucker) which both suggests it will be easy to shift (all he needs) and that he is in some sense 'getting one over' the poor potential FTB reduced to buying it ('sucker'). Then confuse the issue even more ('it seems there are plenty [of suckers] about in London!).

Either this person is terminally confused in the midbrain, or is a VI trying desperately hard to create a 'bear' personality with the usual intentions of worming into the soft underslung belly of HPC then attacking later. Which one do u think LL is???? :-) (hope that helps!)

Thanks guys, especially LL for commenting. It is so unfortunate that unless you have a rocket science type grip on economics, you are shot down in flames for making an inferior post according to all the self proclaimed experts. Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I thought this was an open forum. Im afraid I dont have the intelligence, nor the time or inclination, to behave like a troll.

Your not the only one who goes through this lolly! I think it is some kind of bizzarre initiation... Thats the only reason I can find!

[Guest Winners and Losers]

Maybe I need to make myself clearer still (if anyone cares!). My example was trying to illustrate how silly prices in London have become and how this person truly believes that they will get 125k. You can buy a 1 bed flat for that in the area. I thought is was an example of how people are still in denial. Cant see how that makes me a troll, in fact, surely the opposite? I think there is much troll paranoia on this site!

Do pay attention CrashIsUnderWay - that was posted by me, not LL. I am definately not a VI. Sold my flat in London in 2002 and bought in Australia. Now returned to UK and just a bit gobsmacked that a studio flat with no garden, no parking and not near a tube could be worth that much! Don't try to analyse me too much, I'm just bitter and twisted because I want to buy in the UK again. However, it is possible that I am terminally confused in the midbrain - prices going up, no down, no up, no down. Perhaps I should stop reading HPC.

Thanks guys, especially LL for commenting. It is so unfortunate that unless you have a rocket science type grip on economics, you are shot down in flames for making an inferior post according to all the self proclaimed experts. Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I thought this was an open forum. Im afraid I dont have the intelligence, nor the time or inclination, to behave like a troll.

[right_freds_dead]

Hi Rfd

Easy to say they're dim or stupid, I'd refute that; what they've done is panic and fail to look at the broader picture and as I said before people in London tend to think 'its different here' they won't be the first or the last! It takes a strong mind and will to stand out from the crowd, that's why I have found this community a Godsend. I also think my male friend probebly won't sell but sitting there banking on a potential profit makes him feel better about his choice, my female friend just wants a home, a place of her own.

and thats why they are dim.

anyway. not your problem. let them get on with it.

say nothing.

[Killer Bunny]

Hi LL

I posted a reply on another topic recently saying that a friend of mine bought a place in London for 110k and sold it, at full asking price of 190k (after spending 20k on it), in 48 hours!

How long had they owned it when it went on the market and when did it sell?