Shocking Welsh Income Figures Released

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/02...-name_page.html

47% earn less than £10,700 per year.

70% have no savings.

So there's very little holding house prices up.

Edited December 3, 2005 by gruffydd

[WSG]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/02...-name_page.html

47% earn less than £10,700 per year.

70% have no savings.

So there's very little holding house prices up.

ex 3bed semi council house in Tongwynlais (right on m4 J32) costs 170K that needs at least a 45k salary at a multiple of 3.5 ........hmm.....

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-911...pa_n=2&tr_t=buy

[firebug]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/02...-name_page.html

47% earn less than £10,700 per year.

70% have no savings.

So there's very little holding house prices up.

I shudder to think what these people are living on. If the locals (Welsh) are buying property at current prices on earnings like that then god help them!

[Elizabeth]

I shudder to think what these people are living on. If the locals (Welsh) are buying property at current prices on earnings like that then god help them!

SHACKS. Thats what we need. More Shacks. Buy cheap land and build a shack. Live in it. The only question is, when 1 week later the Council tries to evict you, will the also have an obligation to rehouse you?

[HenryWeston]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/02...-name_page.html

47% earn less than £10,700 per year.

70% have no savings.

So there's very little holding house prices up.

i wouldnt be surprised if thats similar to Herefordshire, as wages are crap here as well

[Realistbear]

THis HPI has been fuelled by irresponsible lending. The recent revelations by the FSA that some VI's are conspiring with borrowers on a "lie to buy" binge is adding additional fuel to the fire. This recent HPI has been characterized by speculation, dishonesty, greed and plain stupidity. When borrowers are allowed to buy homes at 5, even 10 times income, there is bound to be trouble ahead.

The home page of this web site has a frightening graph with an arrow telling us we are "here." Buyers be warned.

[John Smith]

Where I am (South Beds) ... about 45 min commute by train to Kings Cross, a 3 bed ex council semi is about the same price - perhaps in some areas a bit more.

I guess the argument here is that being close to London, then the higher prices are somehow justified ... higher wages, maybe even sell up in London at a profit, move out then commute back in - hence higher prices.

But how does this work for places not near London. Are these places near big cities so the prices are justified as being higher? Or are we reaching a new paradigm whereby there is now 'just one price' for a style of house irrespective of where it is - rather like items in a supermarket ... but if this was the case, then does this mean that the Supply and Demand theory would no longer be relevant?

Any thoughts?

[Realistbear]

Where I am (South Beds) ... about 45 min commute by train to Kings Cross, a 3 bed ex council semi is about the same price - perhaps in some areas a bit more.

I guess the argument here is that being close to London, then the higher prices are somehow justified ... higher wages, maybe even sell up in London at a profit, move out then commute back in - hence higher prices.

But how does this work for places not near London. Are these places near big cities so the prices are justified as being higher? Or are we reaching a new paradigm whereby there is now 'just one price' for a style of house irrespective of where it is - rather like items in a supermarket ... but if this was the case, then does this mean that the Supply and Demand theory would no longer be relevant?

Any thoughts?

There is an immutable law of real estate that is never broken: the value of a house is primarily determined by three factors:

1. Location.

2. Location.

3. Location.

Demand will quickly fall if the money supply is not present to sustain the market. Low wages = low property prices (unless it is a holiday home location desired by wealthy 2nd/3rd etc. home owners).

[BuyingBear]

But how does this work for places not near London. Are these places near big cities so the prices are justified as being higher? Or are we reaching a new paradigm whereby there is now 'just one price' for a style of house irrespective of where it is - rather like items in a supermarket ... but if this was the case, then does this mean that the Supply and Demand theory would no longer be relevant?

Any thoughts?

Hrm, it's just a current disparity where the ripple effect hasn't completed yet, London is correcting and up until recently places like Scotland have only just given up their upward trend.

If you theory were true everyone would just move to London, the houses would be the same cost yet your earnings potential would be much higher, but if everyone lived in one place earnings would deflate and the UK would flip over due to the imbalance

Edited December 3, 2005 by BuyingBear

[The Masked Tulip]

This shows the nonsense of Welsh HPs. It also shows the terrible poverty that, after X years of a Labour Govt, Wales still has.

[BearLite]

This paradigm theory could only be sustained if we were all on high wages in the UK. High prices - low wages for area - cue price falls.

I am mystified as to why anybody can buy a house at prices like this in Wales. It's a 3 bed ex council semi for god sake. Nothing wrong with that, it looks a decent enough house - but the price??? It's the same in Scotland.

What is it going to take? Will it be the prices putting buyers off, or they buy and they find they can't keep up with the payments and we have to wait a bit longer for this madness to end.

[The Masked Tulip]

My Mum is ill at the moment and might need to go into a nursing home. I was shocked to learn this week that many private nursing homes in the Swansea area are now charging £600 PER WEEK. Apparently, lots of people from the South East have sold up their properties and relocated to Wales for care thus making it impossible for Welsh people to get into the homes.

I mean, you would have to have 30K a year in net income in order to be able to pay for one of these places. There is something very tragic how a LABOUR Government has been in power and created this kind of situation. No doubt, there are similar stories in other low wage areas of the UK.

[Guest STR2004]

I grew up in South Wales and my parents still live there. Last year some areas saw the highest house price inflation in the UK and current prices have staggered me as I know that people are paid very little. An average wage of circa £10K surprises me a little although £15K wouldn't. In my home town you'd be considered well off if you earned over £20K and yet my mum's bungalow was valued recently at £200K and it's run of the mill. Prices are a joke in relation to what people earn.

STR

[John Smith]

Bungalows around here are about £200k, so what sort of person are the EA's valuing the properties for when (I imagine) the economies/wages/etc. in Wales/South Beds are probably quite different, so why are prices similar?

Are they pricing against a baseline of the the notional 'young professional' that most property programs seem to want to attract to live in their redeveloped properties ... and if so, then may be the 'young professional' type is most associated with London, and hence they value it along the lines of what a typicla 'young professional' Londoner could afford.

Just a thought :-)

[one_point_two_trillion+]

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/02...-name_page.html

47% earn less than £10,700 per year.

70% have no savings.

So there's very little holding house prices up.

The study used a very large sample but only looked at salaries and not overall earnings.

It also fails to distinguish between part time and full time earnings.

10k wouldn't be bad for 3 day per week employment as a second income.

Most self employed people I know in Swansea pay themself a salary of around 10k for PAYE and receive the rest of their money in the form of dividends etc.

More flawed statistics commissioned by the clueless and wasteful Cardiff based Assembly. Probably not worth the paper it's written on !

[Starcrossed]

When I visited Aberystwyth last autumn for the first time since University there in 1991 I was amazed at how nice the town looked. Aside from an increase in the size of the University the only thing I could see that made a difference was the 'money' brought in by house price increases.

Which raises the question - what will happen when that 'money' is taken away?

[BuyingBear]

When I visited Aberystwyth last autumn for the first time since University there in 1991 I was amazed at how nice the town looked. Aside from an increase in the size of the University the only thing I could see that made a difference was the 'money' brought in by house price increases.

Which raises the question - what will happen when that 'money' is taken away?

Not just taken away but the previous profligacy will also need to be repaid.

[The Masked Tulip]

I remember just how desolate Wales became in the 1990s - there was no work, at one point 80% of adult males were unemployed - that is 8 in 10 - and there was an air of despondency and no hope. It is interesting, Cardiff aside, that many parts of Wales have only begun to flourish in the past 2 - 3 years... meaning that the Blair/Brown economic 'miracle' has taken this long to get to Wales. A large part of this is EU Objective One money but, unlike Eire, it does not appear to be being spent wisely.

I have no doubt that a HPC is coming. I have no doubt that a downturn in the economy is coming. God help Wales then.

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

Here in the West, things are still pretty desolate. Haven't quite figured out where the Objective 1 money has gone. I remember staying with cousins in Ireland in the early 90s and noticing really impressive new roads, going in, interesting projects to attract new industries to really depressed places like Dundalk-Dun Dealgan, etc., transforming the economic landscape. What have I noticed here? Not a lot. I suspect most of the money is being poured in to unsustainable public sector projects.

As for Aber, I was offered a job there a while back but couldn't justify moving there as the house prices were ridiculous and rents appeared to be higher than those you'd find in cities like Cardiff and Bristol. DIM DIOLCH!

Edited December 4, 2005 by gruffydd

[EmpiricalBear]

Most self employed people I know in Swansea pay themself a salary of around 10k for PAYE and receive the rest of their money in the form of dividends etc.

I'm self employed and have been selected by the ONS for their regular survey. As self employed they do not include me in the stats, my partner who has a government job is included in the stats.

So I don't think that the large amount of wealthy welsh self-employed (chortle) are distorting these figures.

[The Masked Tulip]

Here in the West, things are still pretty desolate. Haven't quite figured out where the Objective 1 money has gone. I remember staying with cousins in Ireland in the early 90s and noticing really impressive new roads, going in, interesting projects to attract new industries to really depressed places like Dundalk-Dun Dealgan, etc., transforming the economic landscape. What have I noticed here? Not a lot. I suspect most of the money is being poured in to unsustainable public sector projects.

Yep.

As for Aber, I was offered a job there a while back but couldn't justify moving there as the house prices were ridiculous and rents appeared to be higher than those you'd find in cities like Cardiff and Bristol. DIM DIOLCH!

Yep.