porca misèria Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Radio 4's "more or less" just took a look at the rise in homelessness, and explained what it really means. It's a legal definition, and what it counts is people who loca authorities have a statutory duty to house. The rise isn't driven by repossessions and rent arrears, it's people who can't[1] get a place in the first place. The (much smaller) number of people actually sleeping rough - those you'd think of as homeless - are excluded from the figures! [1] The definition of "can't" wasn't entirely clear. I expect some are those who try hard but fail hurdles like tenant referencing for rentals, but how far that extends in the direction of "can't be arsed" or "don't want that hassle and expense", and what the actual balance is, wasn't discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmf Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Radio 4's "more or less" just took a look at the rise in homelessness, and explained what it really means. It's a legal definition, and what it counts is people who loca authorities have a statutory duty to house. The rise isn't driven by repossessions and rent arrears, it's people who can't[1] get a place in the first place. The (much smaller) number of people actually sleeping rough - those you'd think of as homeless - are excluded from the figures! [1] The definition of "can't" wasn't entirely clear. I expect some are those who try hard but fail hurdles like tenant referencing for rentals, but how far that extends in the direction of "can't be arsed" or "don't want that hassle and expense", and what the actual balance is, wasn't discussed. Best podcast on the radio. Good to see Harford's show getting more and more mentions on here. I haven't heard this one yet (have a podcast backlog) but it's in the queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Best podcast on the radio. Good to see Harford's show getting more and more mentions on here. I haven't heard this one yet (have a podcast backlog) but it's in the queue. I recommend his books as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Homeless probably just means not claiming housing benefit while on the dole, while not living at home and not owning a property. It would include people living with boy/girlfriends not paying rent, squatting etc. I would disagree with the sentiments above: from my tiny sample of life, it looks like more and more people have decided that buying a house is for idiots, and paying rent is a recipe for working for nothing. Since both of those conclusions are IMO true, it is inevitable that more and more people will come to the same conclusion (and that the government will start trying to force people to rent/slave). I know people who instead are: living in caravans or boats, getting jobs where you can sleep in (and rest of time at gfriends), living in tents (and haven't told their kids) etc. When that becomes impossible, people will rent like kiwis: 10 to a flat, which makes you legit, but spending most of your time in caravan,tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 If you are homeless, than it just means you have rubbish self management. No sympathy what so ever for anyone who gets homeless, there is enough help out there to prevent you from sleeping under the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Self Employed Youth Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 If you are homeless, than it just means you have rubbish self management. No sympathy what so ever for anyone who gets homeless, there is enough help out there to prevent you from sleeping under the sky. Quite a lot of people aren't entitled to any help whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted August 4, 2012 Author Share Posted August 4, 2012 If you are homeless, than it just means you have rubbish self management. No sympathy what so ever for anyone who gets homeless, there is enough help out there to prevent you from sleeping under the sky. You have experience of charity hostels? Did they have enough beds to meet demand? Were they full of drunks, druggies, and others who might make some of us uneasy? Not a stink to send you running for the open air? I don't know: that's just my prejudices. I chose to sleep under the sky rather than try them when I was 'between' jobs after my fixed-term postdoc research ended mid-recession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I was aged 17, and on income support/housing benefit due to my lack of parental support. I managed through good management of my very small finances. I have been through the mill of looking for a home while low on money, but prior planning and good financial management is required, a lesson I learned from an early age. Living within your means, that is a choice. Taking drugs/drink and becoming an addict, another choice. I have been booted out at short notice once, one weeks notice and found myself a flat while on income support. (I was studying A levels at this time.) Getting into debt, that is a choice. Every debt you take on is a choice, and that has a risk when you take it on. Will your income drop? Will you lose your job? Have you got no savings? I always have some money tucked away for a rainy day, a lesson learned years ago. I have lost my job, the house that went with it and my wife had a baby all in the same month. Bad planning! Still I managed to sort that out and find a home to live in through good planning and some effort. Housing benefit not covering your rent? Move to another part of the country. Any changes to benefits come with lots of warning, another choice to live in expensive areas. Can't get benefits? Either you are from another part of the world, and you made your choice to come here, or learn how to play the system better, another choice. When I lost my job, I didn't take it, I got pro active and looked at all my options and did some research. May be I just have some get up and go, but I fail to see how a person with good management gets homeless in this day and age. Been there, seen it, done it. Drunk my money up the wall in my youth, been evicted for a dispute with a land lady, given notice by landlords under the 6 month tenancy agreements, no family home to go to whilst at uni in the summer holidays, losing a job of many years while in debt, getting into debt and worrying about it due to loss of job, kipping on my mates sofas, having notice served and not having a deposit, I could go on, and that is why I say what I said in my previous post. Don't think I am pleading hardship, far from it, but back when I did my A levels and got into uni, I did it living in a bedsit on income support and I haven't met any one else who has done this. I am still hard at work, trying to make life better for myself and I know damn well that at any minute I could be homeless again through bad management of my own affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted August 5, 2012 Author Share Posted August 5, 2012 Can't get benefits? Either you are from another part of the world, and you made your choice to come here, or learn how to play the system better, another choice. No address, no benefits. When my postdoc ended, so did my rental. No address, no benefits. Much more recently I got caught on another variant of that: applied for benefits but was denied because I had my own business (income from which was less than my rent at the time, let alone national minimum wage). Yes it was my choice, but to have qualified for benefits at the time would've required winding the clock back. And it was a choice that eventually paid off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The XYY Man Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 If you are homeless, than it just means you have rubbish self management. No sympathy what so ever for anyone who gets homeless, there is enough help out there to prevent you from sleeping under the sky. I will not waste my time trying to explain to you why you are wrong on so many levels, but the fact remains sir that you are. What I will tell you is that statements like that have a habit of coming back and haunting you many years later in life. There but for the grace of god go all of us my friend, and a little compassion for life's unfortunates will keep Madam Kharma happier than a bit of self-righteous, man-in-the-pub style dogma. A run of bad luck, ill-health, divorce or unemployment can put even the best people in the shit through little fault of their own, and the day any of those events tap you on the shoulder is when you may find out for yourself why you are wrong. But feel free to live in your delusional little world until such time as it falls in around your head - then perhaps you'll see the true extent of your self-proclaimed "self-management" skills. I genuinely, truly and sincerely hope you never have to find out... XYY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jethro Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 "I was aged 17, and on income support/housing benefit due to my lack of parental support." I said that in my second post. My wife says that these days 17 year olds get put into care, I got a bedsit after getting no help from anyone. I got into all sorts of situations about homelessness by the time I turned 18 and it is not nice. By the age of 22 I was really fed up of being messed around with regards to housing, and that was when I I got a decent job. Done the no address thing, got around that by blagging my mate into letting me use his address while I sofa surfed. I have done the whole ill/loss of job/loss of house thing. Delusional? No, hell no. Harsh yes. Just think that right now you have a nice place to live, but what happens if you fall ill/ lose your job? My life has taught me to plan for that and I have no hesitation in telling others to have a back up plan. Just in case. And that is all down to self management. As you say karma can throw you a rough ride, but some good old self reliance and planning can make the ride a whole lot smoother. By pointing out that if you work out your affairs you won't go homeless, is that a bad thing? I don't think it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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