SarahBell Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 nulabour never implemented any checks to see how many foreign nationals are claiming Uk benefits. AND a UK MP stood up in parliament and said it was shocking that an immigrant worker can claim benefits for his family back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiges Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 A disgrace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleSteroid Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Yes it's true. I know phew guys who work and claim benefits their wifes and kids even though they are not here. NO ONE EVER ASKED!!! or rather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casper562 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Its no surprise why this country is in such a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 AND a UK MP stood up in parliament and said it was shocking that an immigrant worker can claim benefits for his family back home. I know it happens, but is this legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realistbear Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Its no surprise why this country is in such a mess. It is also no surprise why people from all accross the globe continue to flock here. And the CBI lika it verrrry much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosh Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Disgusting. I think even the left leaners will be shocked by the amounts that are going to dependants outside of the uk. If they put a stop to it and used that money to immunise the children of the world I would accept that. We will probably still have some change left over to help the deprived within our own borders. If this free money did not exist then you will see a sharp fall in immigration for benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Disgusting. I think even the left leaners will be shocked by the amounts that are going to dependants outside of the uk. If they put a stop to it and used that money to immunise the children of the world I would accept that. We will probably still have some change left over to help the deprived within our own borders. If this free money did not exist then you will see a sharp fall in immigration for benefits. How can we afford to immunise the world when we cannot afford cancer drugs for British people? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570535/Figures-reveal-cancer-care-postcode-lottery.html Huge discrepancies in funding mean that the life expectancy of patients could vary from region to region as expensive life-saving drugs are dispensed to only those living in certain areas.Health experts say patients in higher-spending areas could have as much as a 20 per cent better chance of survival than those in areas where the spending is low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosh Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 How can we afford to immunise the world when we cannot afford cancer drugs for British people? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570535/Figures-reveal-cancer-care-postcode-lottery.html I agree Bob. My point is that if we do have to go on these moral crusades then find the money another way that does not further impact the care and welfare of the British people. If I had the chance, I would vote for no foreign aid with my money until we are satisfied that we can look after our own young, elderly and vulnerable. If we did have spare we should have a say on where it goes or even better leave it to charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 nulabour never implemented any checks to see how many foreign nationals are claiming Uk benefits. AND a UK MP stood up in parliament and said it was shocking that an immigrant worker can claim benefits for his family back home. A lot of this is our fault. In order to have a proper system, you need to have a database definining who are UK nationals. We dont have such a system because everytime someone puts the idea forward, is you get people saying it is an ID system (yes it would be that), and that it infringes their human rights and they dont want to be on it. Well someone has to point out to the naysayers, that if we dont implement such a system, then there is no effective way that the person making the decision about benefits, can determine if the person before them is a UK national or not and therefore entitled, unless they spend a lot of time and effort when they dont have the time to do that. A proper system for recording ID's is useful in so many ways I could spend weeks writing about it. But you need to tie it in with the fragmented Births and Deaths system. It would require the taking of DNA and a mugshot, and it would allocate you a citizens number. They could print that number on a card for you to remember, that is the only card you would need, and you wouldnt even really need that. The mugshot would need to be updated from time to time. Then in all your dealings with the state, quote that number, and they can then determine if you are known to the database as a UK national, if not, no benefits, and better still, no council house, no schooling (never understood why we should have to pay for anyone else's kids), no health treatment except emergency care. Unless we put something like this in place, the UK taxpayer is going to be subject to rampant fraud and abuse of the benefits that the state provides. The only long term viable alternative to this, is for the state to cease to provide benefits anyone can profit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 A lot of this is our fault. In order to have a proper system, you need to have a database definining who are UK nationals. And we gave away how many british passports last month? last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiges Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 And we gave away how many british passports last month? last year? I understand the immigration authority is making things much easier, they've stuck a deal with Kellogs to put a passport in every box of cornflakes overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Can't Cameron issue them all with a yellow star to be worn on clothing? That would make them far easier to identify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 And we gave away how many british passports last month? last year? Sarah, yes, a soft amnesty is going on. They cannot control the borders, due to being in the EU and the courts bizarre interpretation of the Human Rights legislation (right to family life). If we had a proper ID database, we could first of all be a lot tougher on people who overstayed their visas, and if the courts did their job, we could send illegals home. However, the two combined mean only a few who dont want to go are sent back home, so instead they just give out British passports, there is little else they can do. Nothing I have seen from the Tories will change this. Our borders are effectively open to all, and so therefore, are our schools and hospitals and benefits system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Can't Cameron issue them all with a yellow star to be worn on clothing? That would make them far easier to identify I dont think that the repugnance of racism and the associated horrors from history is any justification for not having proper controls on immigration and limiting the benefits of the state to the citizens of that state. We are not wishing ill on people here, just ensuring that we can have a system where only those should get any benefits are the ones that do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corevalue Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 A lot of this is our fault. In order to have a proper system, you need to have a database definining who are UK nationals. We dont have such a system because everytime someone puts the idea forward, is you get people saying it is an ID system (yes it would be that), and that it infringes their human rights and they dont want to be on it. Well someone has to point out to the naysayers, that if we dont implement such a system, then there is no effective way that the person making the decision about benefits, can determine if the person before them is a UK national or not and therefore entitled, unless they spend a lot of time and effort when they dont have the time to do that. A proper system for recording ID's is useful in so many ways I could spend weeks writing about it. But you need to tie it in with the fragmented Births and Deaths system. It would require the taking of DNA and a mugshot, and it would allocate you a citizens number. They could print that number on a card for you to remember, that is the only card you would need, and you wouldnt even really need that. The mugshot would need to be updated from time to time. Then in all your dealings with the state, quote that number, and they can then determine if you are known to the database as a UK national, if not, no benefits, and better still, no council house, no schooling (never understood why we should have to pay for anyone else's kids), no health treatment except emergency care. Unless we put something like this in place, the UK taxpayer is going to be subject to rampant fraud and abuse of the benefits that the state provides. The only long term viable alternative to this, is for the state to cease to provide benefits anyone can profit from. And all that would make no difference, if the legally identified and entitled person is allowed to claim for dependants not even here. A bit like the pensions for the dead scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinzano Bianco Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 A lot of this is our fault. In order to have a proper system, you need to have a database definining who are UK nationals. <snip> NI, DVLA, Passports, Birth Certificates, NHS Numbers, Census, Council Tax, direct.gov, etc. etc. How many more times does a persons details need to be recorded somewhere? If they cannot extract the relevant details from that lot, and get at least 99% of the population into a database of UK nationals, they are ******ing morons. Well, they are ******ing morons anyway, but that is beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 NI, DVLA, Passports, Birth Certificates, NHS Numbers, Census, Council Tax, direct.gov, etc. etc. How many more times does a persons details need to be recorded somewhere? If they cannot extract the relevant details from that lot, and get at least 99% of the population into a database of UK nationals, they are ******ing morons. Well, they are ******ing morons anyway, but that is beside the point. This is exactly the problem. There are so many systems, no one knows which one to refer to. There should be one that defines who is a UK national, none of the above do that. And the cracks in the system allow you to 'get in'. You dont need to be a UK national to get a driving licence, but once you have one, you start to look like a UK national. I bet with a bit of effort and a few quid slipped here and there, you could get a UK passport as a non-UK national. As for being a moron, when building such a database you need to check everyone pretty carefully to ensure that they are really UK nationals as you build those database entries. Once built, inclusion on the system should be only at birth (where you are unable to game the system), via a court, or a properly controlled immigration process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 NI, DVLA, Passports, Birth Certificates, NHS Numbers, Census, Council Tax, direct.gov, etc. etc. How many more times does a persons details need to be recorded somewhere? If they cannot extract the relevant details from that lot, and get at least 99% of the population into a database of UK nationals, they are ******ing morons. They're all dirty databases though - but would have been the basis of the ID card system instantly making it dirty too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickwall Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 here's another scenario an Asian friend of my girlfriend who was very intelligent got her self a job in the benefits agency .she thought it was great that she could give her own family and friends all the help they needed when making a claim, including her father who was a taxi driver at night .I guess this is pay back for the empire days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 And all that would make no difference, if the legally identified and entitled person is allowed to claim for dependants not even here. A bit like the pensions for the dead scandal. It makes all the difference. Sure, as a nation we can choose to open our borders and offer benefits for all, and it seems that we often do. But we dont have anything in place that allows us to distinguish between our nationals and other nationals. So we cant choose anything different even if we wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicestersq Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 here's another scenario an Asian friend of my girlfriend who was very intelligent got her self a job in the benefits agency .she thought it was great that she could give her own family and friends all the help they needed when making a claim, including her father who was a taxi driver at night .I guess this is pay back for the empire days brickwall, is this true? When you make a claim, I would have assumed that the work of dealing with the claim would have gone a long way geographically from those making the claim, just to stop this sort of thing from happening. I cant believe that this could happen except through pure chance of having a differently named family member living a long way away. I can believe it does occur in council house allocation though, which is done more locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 This is a case of unintended consequence, lack of coherent planning from TPTB and a sign of Britain becoming a deindustrialised basketcase, a glorified transport hub. As for human rights being a obstacle in dealing with unsavoury foreign nationals, be careful what you wish for when the UK autorities eventually disregard human rights for everybody after dealing with the foreign criminals ("first they came for the communists" and all that). And populalist moves such as clamping down on foreign students, while closing down another point of entry into the UK could see revenue drying up for underfunded universities that still have decent engineering courses that would be harder to fund. Plus we've got pleanty of criminal fraudsters from within our own borders, not only chavs, but a huge chunk of the political/economic "elite" (comparable to the Roman Empire where not only barbarians invaded from the outside, Roman soldiers and politicians were the wrecking the Empire from within). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickwall Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 brickwall, is this true? When you make a claim, I would have assumed that the work of dealing with the claim would have gone a long way geographically from those making the claim, just to stop this sort of thing from happening. I cant believe that this could happen except through pure chance of having a differently named family member living a long way away. I can believe it does occur in council house allocation though, which is done more locally. it does happen and people who claim benefit would be better suited to a job in the benefits system as they know every trick in the book those that have no intention of ever working are like rats in a sewer that have all day to gnaw away at things they study the loop holes with friends drinking cheep alcohol and smoking dope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I dont think that the repugnance of racism and the associated horrors from history is any justification for not having proper controls on immigration and limiting the benefits of the state to the citizens of that state. We are not wishing ill on people here, just ensuring that we can have a system where only those should get any benefits are the ones that do so. Are you arguing that 'immigrant' workers should be excluded from benefits on the basis that they are 'immigrants' rather than 'nationals'? If so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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