No Record Of Nationality On Benefits Claims

[RentingForever]

A proper system for recording ID's is useful in so many ways I could spend weeks writing about it. But you need to tie it in with the fragmented Births and Deaths system. It would require the taking of DNA and a mugshot, and it would allocate you a citizens number. They could print that number on a card for you to remember, that is the only card you would need, and you wouldnt even really need that. The mugshot would need to be updated from time to time.

Then in all your dealings with the state, quote that number, and they can then determine if you are known to the database as a UK national, if not, no benefits, and better still, no council house, no schooling (never understood why we should have to pay for anyone else's kids), no health treatment except emergency care.

And when the incompetent State gets your details wrong and you disappear off the database, you get no schooling/NHS/benefits/etc for the six months or longer it will inevitably take to sort it out.

Sorry, but given my experience of dealing with any kind of State database system (local council, tax office, DVLA...), it will inevitably be a f*ck up.

[leicestersq]

Are you arguing that 'immigrant' workers should be excluded from benefits on the basis that they are 'immigrants' rather than 'nationals'?

If so, why?

I am primarily arguing that we should have a system that allows the law makers to make a choice. At the moment we dont have one, because people doing the allocation cannot get this information cheaply enough to make the check worthwhile.

And yes, the resources of the state should be primarily for nationals.

[leicestersq]

And when the incompetent State gets your details wrong and you disappear off the database, you get no schooling/NHS/benefits/etc for the six months or longer it will inevitably take to sort it out.

Sorry, but given my experience of dealing with any kind of State database system (local council, tax office, DVLA...), it will inevitably be a f*ck up.

Yes, often things go wrong. They can be made so much better though, and this would help enormously. Take the passport system, when it first came out, chaos for a few weeks. You dont here so much about it now, because it works.

And I dont see how you could disappear of a database like this, that wouldnt happen, I think you are scaremongering there. I never heard of anyone disappearing of say, a bank database.

[leicestersq]

This is a case of unintended consequence, lack of coherent planning from TPTB and a sign of Britain becoming a deindustrialised basketcase, a glorified transport hub. As for human rights being a obstacle in dealing with unsavoury foreign nationals, be careful what you wish for when the UK autorities eventually disregard human rights for everybody after dealing with the foreign criminals ("first they came for the communists" and all that). And populalist moves such as clamping down on foreign students, while closing down another point of entry into the UK could see revenue drying up for underfunded universities that still have decent engineering courses that would be harder to fund. Plus we've got pleanty of criminal fraudsters from within our own borders, not only chavs, but a huge chunk of the political/economic "elite" (comparable to the Roman Empire where not only barbarians invaded from the outside, Roman soldiers and politicians were the wrecking the Empire from within).

A proper ID system such as this, would allow foreign nationals to be included on it as well, with information such as length of stay and the fact that they are not UK nationals included on it. When they leave the country, that info can be captured from their passport by means of a barcode at the port of departure. Then it is easy to get a list of those who havent left when they should have done, and the border police can deal with it, having the precise information they need to do the job they are supposed to do in hand.

[RentingForever]

Yes, often things go wrong. They can be made so much better though, and this would help enormously. Take the passport system, when it first came out, chaos for a few weeks. You dont here so much about it now, because it works.

And I dont see how you could disappear of a database like this, that wouldnt happen, I think you are scaremongering there. I never heard of anyone disappearing of say, a bank database.

When I last looked at getting a mortgage the banks couldn't find me on the credit referencing systems because my postal address (as specificed by the Post Office) didn't exactly match the address listed on the Electoral Register. "Computer Says No..."

So you're right, your record is unlikely to "disappear". But being correct, or easily found, is a different matter.

[Monkey]

TBH i've gone beyond caring now.

let them claim benifits, lets just give shit loads more money out to people not even intending of thinking about commimng here, lets just give them £1000 per month for just living in another country. its ok we can borrow/print more GBP. if that fails lets put the tax up on everything.

hell we could even get a new tax, Benifit Payment tax. this is to be deducted from yuor/my pay cheque at the same time as NI and Income tax, it will be a flat rate of 25% of your Pre Tax income. at the same time lets get VAT upto 25% and put vat on currently non VATable stuff, personally i dont like having money, its better off in someone elses pocket. i dont need to heat my house, i dont need electricity, or drive to work, lets see if we can really price the working public out of every market possible. lets make this a nation where more money is paid out to the public (UK and non UK based) than is brought in (within and outside the UK)

Add this to the additional Aid the government have peldged us to spend to other countries we must be rolling it cash.

lets **** over this country hard.

[dissident junk]

I am getting very suspicious about the way the British welfare state has been allowed to be abused in the last 30 years.

Lets be blunt here, if we truly had a sovereign democratic political elite whose innate purpose was to represent and better the lives of the British people (which we supposedly have had since the end of the second world war with the political power of Labour and the shift to social democracy), would we really see this kind of thing?

No, we wouldn't.

Instead, I think a lot of this abuse is intentionally encouraged; I think it is a way to destroy the welfare state and disenfranchise the ordinary British people politically, economically and educationally.

Anyone with half a brain can see that the system is heading for collapse: not just benefits, but the NHS, the education system, social housing, pensions everything. We cannot afford the levels of liability; even if we appropriated the entire wealth of the ten richest people in Britain, we could not afford to cover the benefits and housing bills for a year.

Yet the political elite just keep ratcheting everything up. Why?

As the country gets more diverse, and the depression starts to really bite, along with collapsing tax revenues and ever increasing liabilities, ordinary working people, living in constrained circumstances, will start to want to avoid paying tax because they will begin to seethe at paying for foreign nationals -- indeed, they will begin to refuse to pay for anyone who does not live like them or seem like them.

This is a known phenomenon. You cannot have open borders and a welfare state. You cannot have diversity in a multicultural sense and a civil society solid enough to support the principles of a welfare state; Harvard Professor Robert Puttnam showed this consequences of this and key liberal left figures such as David Goodhart have written about it.

Yet the political elite keep on allowing such developments to continue underhindered? Why? It must only be because it will destroy the welfare state, state education and the NHS.

When you stand back and look at local government executive pay, MPs expenses, taxation levels on NMW and low paid earners, the NHS outcomes vis a vis allocated spend in departments, the legal system, law and order, the HRA, the abuses of the benefits and social housing system, the outcomes of state education, immigration, policies of multiculturalism, foreign aid, transport policy, industrial policy, monetary policy, housing policy, the rise of nepotism and decline of meritocracy, even down to official dietary evidence, almost everything ... the one thing that becomes clear is that if you wanted to destroy a society, a state and a people, this is how you would do it.

We are living in the "great destruction" of the socially democratic gains of the 50s and 60s. We will end up with "the elite" and we will all be "the rest", and it must be intentional.

It is happening all over Europe. We are going back to the societies of the 18th and 19th centuries where the elites will have entrenched privilege and everyone else will be little more than serfs.

I will not pull my punches. I think the global elites are waging a war against the masses, and the political parties and media are supporting them all the way.

[Big Orange]

In a worse case scenario when the economy dies and the welfare state falls apart with it, leading to North African and Middle Eastern style mayhem, with the mass movement of people ceasing, helped along by the contraction of air travel. It's the political/economic elites who are throwing the West into the abyss, not the ordinary people from everywhere.

[Monkey]

i just dont understand how they think they can afford ALL the benifits/Aid etc.

not just Forigen people but our intrenched Benifit Claiments as well.

its really pisses me off when i see how much Tax i pay, and what little i actually get in return. i am not going to debate to pro's and cos of the taxes this is just my musings

i have no issue with paying Council Tax, this pays for services the council provide, bin collection, street cleaning, street lighting etc. this is neccessary

i like the idea of National Insurance, i pay for the "free" health service, i've had good and bad experiences with it, but i know its there if i need it, i dont have to worry if my insurance will cover it or not, am i going to be hit with a huge bill if i fall ill etc. why does irk me is the fact i have private health care through work, i have worked hard to get me to the grade where i get this. so what does the government do? tax me on this "taxable benifit" no i dont get a reduction in my NI as i am less likly to use it due to having private health care, nor do they just leave me alone as i have worked for it, no they tax me approx 80% (its could be more i havent actually worked it out) of the actual value of the benifit.

VAT, ok i can understand this on Luxury items, but the term Luxury needs to be redefined, there is too much that i pay VAT on, some of it it agree but why do i pay vat on petrol that has fuel tax on as well? Petrol now is a neccessity for most, as people cant get a job close to where they live and public transport is a joke, and its too far to ride.

VED, i would understand this IF the money we to pay for the upkeep of the roads, but 80% of the roads i drive on are in poor condition with cheap fixes done when they are repaied.

my insurance is taxed.

Income Tax?!!?? WTF i get taxed for the privilige of just simply working?!? WHY!!!!!

i get taxed when i relax,

if they could they would tax me to sleep. actually they are as i am using electricity in my house, thus bing a VATable item, meaning i am being taxed when i sleep. FC*KERS!!!!!!!

all so they can piss the money up against the wall giving benifits out to everyone who may look like they could ask.

I'm not bringing race or anything into this. but i must be in the worst hit "pigeon hole"

I am

Male

White

Living with G/F

No children

I Drive (not what i want to though as i cant afford the fuel)

i drink

i smoke

i Work

must stop writing as i can feel my blod actually boiling

[Big Orange]

We may get increasingly lethal riots and pogroms, whole regions and cities sealed off by permanent police check points, and millions sent to Nazi scale interment/deportation centres.

[Monkey]

all i know is my wage is erroding fast to the point where i thought i had a ok paid job, to the fact where i would be better off not working.

i really dont understand what they are doing, they [bOE/Government/Banks etc] are either monumentally stupid by keeping IR's this low for this long, and not doing a thing about inflation, letting people claim rediculous amounts of benifits, give out billions for any reason possible (bank bailouts, forigen Aid, Wars, etc) or they are so intelligent and this is part of a much bigger master plan that has taken decades, and will take more decades to play out.

the action and non actions they are doing are bonkers.

[Bosh]

We may get increasingly lethal riots and pogroms, whole regions and cities sealed off by permanent police check points, and millions sent to Nazi scale interment/deportation centres.

When that happens I will change my hpc name to Snake Plissken....

[dissident junk]

I think it is worth really thinking upon these questions.

Why on earth does someone who earns less than the average salary of £24K pa pay income tax?

Why is the personal allowance so ridiculously low?

How is it that the tax burden on low to average paid workers is so high?

When did public spending come to be measured against GDP, rather than against actual received revenues?

How long can we keep the whole thing going when only 24 million private sector workers are attempting to fund over 62 million people?

Why is it that we have continually seen the destruction of, or campaigns against, nearly every form of financial move or product an average working person can use to protect the earnings from their labour since the 1970s? Every five years, there seems to be a crisis that wipes out ordinary people's wealth: tomorrow it will be housing, today it is savings, yesterday it was pensions and investments in tech stocks and endowments, before that housing, before that chronic inflation in the 70s ...

I used to think that it was TFH/CL to think this stuff was engineered, that it was all just the "madness of crowds" and silly deregulation, but now I am seriously not so sure -- not after 2008 and the obvious antics of some big players in the game.

[Big Orange]

Don't mistake for malice what can easily be explained by stupidty of the Western elites who are going down a similar dead end that the current crop of Near Eastern dictators such as Assad, Gaddafi and Mubarak find themselves trapped in.

[Monkey]

Don't mistake for malice what can easily be explained by stupidty of the Western elites

but can they really be that stupid? they are and have been destroying and possibility of a recovery for the last 3 years.

i can understand the banana republics going to the pan, and the revolts that have happened in them, they are and have been run as a dictatorship, and there is with all dictatorships the possibility that one little spark and it'll all kick off, like it has.

and we are not just talking stupidity from one bloke or country, its multiple people from all different industries in alot of different countries, all doing a small part of destroying the local, national and world ecconomies