keef Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 When I seriously start looking I will probably use the average UK house price graph as my guide. Look back to JAN07 and the average price was 184,143. Now look at todays average (most recent being OCT10) and the average is 163,244. That means that there has been an "average" drop of just over 10% since they bought. I would say this to the vendor, and say that following the offical market data their house should now have a value of around 196k. Then you can ask them what they would accept, and ask them to explain the uplift above the "correct" price if there is one (i.e. if they have extended, etc) I assume it would be very hard for this seller to justify the 52k uplift. It would probably be hard for them to justify more than 10k unless they have done something major. No idea what response (if any) you would get, but it does demonstrate to the vendor that you are just trying to pay market rate. Excellent advice, I'm gonna use that when the time comes I have just bagged a bargain. Made a real cheeky offer on a place we really wanted. The only contact we made with the agent was via email, do not give any other contact details until the offer is accepted. I just have refused to talk with estate agents face to face or on the telephone, I don't particularly like them, they amongst others created this mess we are in today. It's a buyers market!!!!!, the tables have turned. And I love that idea, I can't stand talking to these halfwits either, nice one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Don't you need to view the property before you can make an offer on it. Why do you consider it impossible to view a house via email correspondence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruclo Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Don't you need to view the property before you can make an offer on it. I did when They dropped by 100k and had an open viewing day in August last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 When you quote the 2007 sale price, and the market since then, be prepared for the Estate Agent to counter with their favourite phrase. "Yes but that's a National trend. This house is in a special area that has seen real increases." Ask him to explain the special local factors such as new schools, new rail links etc. If indeed there are any. Also, if you can, find other properties that have fallen in price since 2007. It pays to do your homework. you wouldnt just look at the registry figures for other houses in the general area and know enough about the prices to embarrass an agent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Is this guy new or a long-time lurker? No offence whatsoever intended, but will we see lots of people signing up to benefit from our years of collective wisdom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappy Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) If it's been on for over 12 months without the price being lowered, seems like there's no desperate need to sell. If you aren't prepared to offer the £230K being suggested, I'd move on and stop wasting everyones time Edited January 11, 2011 by scrappy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number79 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Is this guy new or a long-time lurker? No offence whatsoever intended, but will we see lots of people signing up to benefit from our years of collective wisdom? well with posts like that they certainly wont be stealing any wisdom from you will they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruclo Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Don't you need to view the property before you can make an offer on it. You can also view the property after they accept your offer and before you sign any contract. If you don't want it tell them to swing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismar Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thank you to those who have offered advice. So far we now have a lot to think about. I appreciate those who have taken time to offer constructive help. No there has not been anything done to property since it was built - other than a lick of paint here and there. Hence why we were concerned about such a hgh asking price now compared to what it was previously bought for back in 2007 (£218k) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarman001 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 well with posts like that they certainly wont be stealing any wisdom from you will they lol... I'd say offer £200k akin to what some of the others are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrewsNutsandBolts Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thank you to those who have offered advice. So far we now have a lot to think about. I appreciate those who have taken time to offer constructive help. No there has not been anything done to property since it was built - other than a lick of paint here and there. Hence why we were concerned about such a hgh asking price now compared to what it was previously bought for back in 2007 (£218k) Last place I have viewed was up for 350k (and still is), having been bought by the vendor for 255k in 2005. They openly commented that they had done nothing to improve the house. From Nationwide figures we should be around 5% less than 2005, so their uplift is at least 100k and they have nothing to justify it. It is a shame I checked their purchase price after the viewing, otherwise it would have been a great question to put to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 It is a shame I checked their purchase price after the viewing, otherwise it would have been a great question to put to them. You sound as if you live in Swansea but this seems so typical across the UK. I feel half-inclined to set up a website highlighting this kind of thing. Put the current asking price up and list the last sold for price from the land reg alongside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScrewsNutsandBolts Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 You sound as if you live in Swansea but this seems so typical across the UK. I feel half-inclined to set up a website highlighting this kind of thing. Put the current asking price up and list the last sold for price from the land reg alongside. Nope... there are delusional sellers acorss the nation This particular pair of numpties were in Kenilworth near Coventry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismar Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 An update on where we are now today (Friday) We have had another view of property and made an offer. The sellers have now moved out (they have bought another property nearby and are now living in it,) and this property we offered on is empty and unfurnished and is costing them £250 per month in council tax and maintenance money.... Property is on market for £248. They paid £218 in early 2007. We offered £205 and justified this to agent in current market (we are prepared to come up a bit - to the price it sold for in 2007 if necesary however we have not mentioned this yet). The Agent (this is a local one-man band not a national or regional multi-office) gave us the immediate response that this would not be acceptable because he had sold a neighbouring property for somewhere in the £230's (he wont tell me what it sold for only that he sold it 2 months ago - and he claims that buyer is now living in that property, yet it is still showing as STC on Rightmove, and it does not yet appear in the sold prices lists - if indeed it has completed.) Anyhow - agent then goes off and speaks to client and comes back to me within 20 minutes and says offer unacceptable and seller wants a price in the mid-£230s as he feels his property is worth that. I have pointed out to agent that another property (5 bed town house) has just come onto market in last week priced at £15k above what it sold for in 2003 and a sale has already been agreed on that property in the last week. (that property was out of our league - but it was sold STC as soon as it was listed on Rightmove) . Before we parted company with the agent we felt that the agents attitude was very "we achieved £X for that property so we are going to get a similar amount for this one.... We dont feel that the agent has spent long enough explaining to seller that market has dropped - given that he had a 5 minute drive back to his office - to have put the case accross or given seller long enough to consider accepting even the purchase price that he paid. The agent was very unwilling to accept that prices have dropped - yet we know from speaking to other people who have had agents out for valuations in the same town - not in area we want to live -sadly - that prices are dropping. This property has been on market for over 12 months at this price of £248. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Monger Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 An update on where we are now today (Friday) We have had another view of property and made an offer. The sellers have now moved out (they have bought another property nearby and are now living in it,) and this property we offered on is empty and unfurnished and is costing them £250 per month in council tax and maintenance money.... Property is on market for £248. They paid £218 in early 2007. We offered £205 and justified this to agent in current market (we are prepared to come up a bit - to the price it sold for in 2007 if necesary however we have not mentioned this yet). The Agent (this is a local one-man band not a national or regional multi-office) gave us the immediate response that this would not be acceptable because he had sold a neighbouring property for somewhere in the £230's (he wont tell me what it sold for only that he sold it 2 months ago - and he claims that buyer is now living in that property, yet it is still showing as STC on Rightmove, and it does not yet appear in the sold prices lists - if indeed it has completed.) Anyhow - agent then goes off and speaks to client and comes back to me within 20 minutes and says offer unacceptable and seller wants a price in the mid-£230s as he feels his property is worth that. I have pointed out to agent that another property (5 bed town house) has just come onto market in last week priced at £15k above what it sold for in 2003 and a sale has already been agreed on that property in the last week. (that property was out of our league - but it was sold STC as soon as it was listed on Rightmove) . Before we parted company with the agent we felt that the agents attitude was very "we achieved £X for that property so we are going to get a similar amount for this one.... We dont feel that the agent has spent long enough explaining to seller that market has dropped - given that he had a 5 minute drive back to his office - to have put the case accross or given seller long enough to consider accepting even the purchase price that he paid. The agent was very unwilling to accept that prices have dropped - yet we know from speaking to other people who have had agents out for valuations in the same town - not in area we want to live -sadly - that prices are dropping. This property has been on market for over 12 months at this price of £248. Relax - the worm is only just turning. I'm starting to see the first few serious drops where I am looking as sellers realise that the market is now against them. If I was you, I would get a friend to offer £195k on the same house just to make sure the message gets through and then walk away. There are plenty of houses out there with sellers who need to negotiate. Bide your time, look at some other houses and put some cheeky offers in. If this seller needs to sell (mortgage payments on two houses?) then they'll be back in touch soon enough and if not, then there was nothing you could have done anyway. The crash is literally just starting so don't lose your head now. Keep us updated as I love to read stories from the front line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrgee1991 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 An update on where we are now today (Friday) We have had another view of property and made an offer. The sellers have now moved out (they have bought another property nearby and are now living in it,) and this property we offered on is empty and unfurnished and is costing them £250 per month in council tax and maintenance money.... Property is on market for £248. They paid £218 in early 2007. We offered £205 and justified this to agent in current market (we are prepared to come up a bit - to the price it sold for in 2007 if necesary however we have not mentioned this yet). The Agent (this is a local one-man band not a national or regional multi-office) gave us the immediate response that this would not be acceptable because he had sold a neighbouring property for somewhere in the £230's (he wont tell me what it sold for only that he sold it 2 months ago - and he claims that buyer is now living in that property, yet it is still showing as STC on Rightmove, and it does not yet appear in the sold prices lists - if indeed it has completed.) Anyhow - agent then goes off and speaks to client and comes back to me within 20 minutes and says offer unacceptable and seller wants a price in the mid-£230s as he feels his property is worth that. I have pointed out to agent that another property (5 bed town house) has just come onto market in last week priced at £15k above what it sold for in 2003 and a sale has already been agreed on that property in the last week. (that property was out of our league - but it was sold STC as soon as it was listed on Rightmove) . Before we parted company with the agent we felt that the agents attitude was very "we achieved £X for that property so we are going to get a similar amount for this one.... We dont feel that the agent has spent long enough explaining to seller that market has dropped - given that he had a 5 minute drive back to his office - to have put the case accross or given seller long enough to consider accepting even the purchase price that he paid. The agent was very unwilling to accept that prices have dropped - yet we know from speaking to other people who have had agents out for valuations in the same town - not in area we want to live -sadly - that prices are dropping. This property has been on market for over 12 months at this price of £248. If they won't sell for less than £230K, look elsewhere. I'm not sure why you think the agent would explain that to them, they must know how things stand having had the property on sale for a year. They think they can get £230K plus or possibly can't/won't move unless they get it. They may have turned down more better offers. If you are prepared to offer more do it and say it's your final offer. The agent would be delighted to sell it at £200K. He gets his 1% fee and won't care too much if it is £2,000 or £2,300. But it's not up to him. In the end, agents can't force people to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrgee1991 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Bide your time, look at some other houses and put some cheeky offers in. If this seller needs to sell (mortgage payments on two houses?) then they'll be back in touch soon enough and if not, then there was nothing you could have done anyway. Very good advice. Look around, offer what you think it is worth and let the estate agent deal with it. Who looks stupid when the offers are 25% less than asking price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erranta Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Agent works for seller not you. You could ask before you make their offer Ask how ready they are to move, have they found somewhere already. Whether they need more time to be ready to move etc. Then: Make offer of £215. Say it's your best and final offer. Say in light of the worsening economic climate you think it's a good offer, you've got a mortgage in place/cash ready. Have solicitor chosen (tell agent who as it shows you're keen), say you're flexible on completion but would prefer quick move forward and say you want to get a surveyor in as soon as possible. Say there's a deadline of end of January for them to accept your offer and after that it's withdrawn. It's a buyers market - the EA's work for the buyer to get their crust. Majority of the spivvy little shits haven't experienced proper falling market. What they have to do is get their seller a reduction off the house they are buying by negotiating % reduction off house further up the chain and so on. Then everyones happy except richest/top of the chain who takes the hit and EA gets their desperate needed commissions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepista Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Make it clear to them that this is a time limited offer - if they wait a month, then you will have to revise your price based on the monthly falls being reported via Halifax, Nationwide and the like, plus taking into account other factors such as the future economic outlook for the UK. Your offer is a never-to-be-repeated offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismar Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) I dont even believe that the agent has had much of a conversation with the sellers to even try to get them to accept a "reasonable" offer based on what they purchased it for back in the peak of 2007. The agent claims the seller wants £230-235'ish. Having paid £218 in 2007. I can quite realistically hear the old boy phoning up the seller and saying "Ive just had an offer of £205, I dont think you should accept this cos I sold next door for somewhere in £230's recently .... I'll get back to them and get them we are after £235ish" puts phone down. that way he has covered himself by telling them of the offer and has not even got into a discussion of being sensible on price with them. The sellers have as I said earlier moved out, and property is empty and just costing them £250 a month in maintenance and council tax plus whatever heating they are keeping on ...... We are not even going back to agent until mid next week and when we do we shall go in personally and sit down and say to him that if the seller is interested in selling at a reasonable price we are willing to strike a deal - but the price we have in mind is nowhere near £230, we are thinking more of the price he paid in 2007 (£218) and even then we are grimmacing at that. There is no chain involved in this transaction. Seller is selling; we would be buying. End. Edited January 14, 2011 by chrismar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I dont even believe that the agent has had much of a conversation with the sellers to even try to get them to accept a "reasonable" offer based on what they purchased it for back in the peak of 2007. The agent claims the seller wants £230-235'ish. Having paid £218 in 2007. I can quite realistically hear the old boy phoning up the seller and saying "Ive just had an offer of £205, I dont think you should accept this cos I sold next door for somewhere in £230's recently .... I'll get back to them and get them we are after £235ish" puts phone down. that way he has covered himself by telling them of the offer and has not even got into a discussion of being sensible on price with them. The sellers have as I said earlier moved out, and property is empty and just costing them £250 a month in maintenance and council tax plus whatever heating they are keeping on ...... We are not even going back to agent until mid next week and when we do we shall go in personally and sit down and say to him that if the seller is interested in selling at a reasonable price we are willing to strike a deal - but the price we have in mind is nowhere near £230, we are thinking more of the price he paid in 2007 (£218) and even then we are grimmacing at that. There is no chain involved in this transaction. Seller is selling; we would be buying. End. He knows you want it and is going to pull your pants down over the price. Most likely just laugh in your face in the shop. You need your head looking at paying 2007 prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismar Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 He knows you want it and is going to pull your pants down over the price. Most likely just laugh in your face in the shop. You need your head looking at paying 2007 prices. So what would you advise doing then? How do I negotiate price in my favour? How do I get the agent to talk to the sellers ... we have never met them as they are not there on the viewings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 So what would you advise doing then? How do I negotiate price in my favour? How do I get the agent to talk to the sellers ... we have never met them as they are not there on the viewings. Stop being impatient. After making the offer just wait and see what happens. It has already been on 12 months and no sale, what's the hurry? If it has not sold by the summer and has little interest your offer will start to look tempting. If not then they are obviously not serious sellers and you should look elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PbroAgent Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 It's a buyers market - the EA's work for the buyer to get their crust. Majority of the spivvy little shits haven't experienced proper falling market. What they have to do is get their seller a reduction off the house they are buying by negotiating % reduction off house further up the chain and so on. Then everyones happy except richest/top of the chain who takes the hit and EA gets their desperate needed commissions You're right except I'm encountering an increasing number of vendors who want to achieve a particular figure in order to have enough deposit/equity to guarantee a particular intererst rate on the next mortgage deal or even just to get a deal at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 So what would you advise doing then? How do I negotiate price in my favour? How do I get the agent to talk to the sellers ... we have never met them as they are not there on the viewings. You cant, they either want to sell or not. You need to either be held to ransom and pay 2007 prices, or look at other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.