Guest BoomBoomCrash Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/st...unemployed.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tboy Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 This suggests that Marxists are correct. Capitalism, at least in its actually existing form, is incapable of providing full employment. Correct, but what's your point? Of course we can't have full employment, inflation would be rampant if there was no-one to hire, especially for menial tasks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Correct, but what's your point? Of course we can't have full employment, inflation would be rampant if there was no-one to hire, especially for menial tasks? I say we have an economy based on four blokes on a computer playing roulette, getting subs from Mervyn King, and everyone else can wipe their arses for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillotine Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I say we have an economy based on four blokes on a computer playing roulette, getting subs from Mervyn King, and everyone else can wipe their arses for nothing. Chips for free? That aint working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomBoomCrash Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Correct, but what's your point? Of course we can't have full employment, inflation would be rampant if there was no-one to hire, especially for menial tasks? Given that why do self professed Capitalists demonise the unemployed then? Why is the UK's policy on unemployment largely punitive in nature, granting the unemployed a pittance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Chips for free?That aint working. Must go, have refrigerators to move and microwave ovens to install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Why is the UK's policy on unemployment largely punitive in nature, granting the unemployed a pittance. Why would people bother to work if they could live comfortably on the dole? Obviously this isn't a rhetorical question, because many people in the UK seem to live what they consider a comfortable life on the dole and never work. Voluntary charity to help those who are in trouble through no fault of their own is a good thing. Compulsory 'charity' with money stolen from the taxpayers will bankrupt your nation after a few decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomBoomCrash Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Why would people bother to work if they could live comfortably on the dole?Obviously this isn't a rhetorical question, because many people in the UK seem to live what they consider a comfortable life on the dole and never work. Voluntary charity to help those who are in trouble through no fault of their own is a good thing. Compulsory 'charity' with money stolen from the taxpayers will bankrupt your nation after a few decades. Ireland's JSA is £175 a week, yet their unemployment is lower than the UK's. Your argument fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Ireland's JSA is £175 a week, yet their unemployment is lower than the UK's. Your argument fails. But a loaf of butter is about 60 quid in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BoomBoomCrash Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 But a loaf of butter is about 60 quid in Ireland. Nope, supermarket prices are UK + 10/15%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 But a loaf of butter is about 60 quid in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Nope, supermarket prices are UK + 10/15%. Seriously, man, I'm so Red I'm infested with rampaging bulls, but you're not telling me a loaf of bread isn't 60 quid in Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.C. Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Given that why do self professed Capitalists demonise the unemployed then? Why is the UK's policy on unemployment largely punitive in nature, granting the unemployed a pittance. Congratulations on understanding capitalism 101. The answer is because a huge number of people are for the most part selfish, greedy w@nkrs. The answer to the second question is because politicians always get applauded for taking the 'tough' stance. On drugs, crime, the unemployed, immigrants etc etc etc. Even when the policies have been shown to fail miserably in country after country for decade after decade if it gets votes, it's the 'right thing to do'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogbrush Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Sustainable full employment is a mirage while people continue to see a payslip as the only evidence of earning a living. It is the state which wants everyone to believe that the only way to work is like that because that's how they get to make an attachment your earnings with PAYE tax so they can do all their nonsense. There's a nasty trap in place which acts to make it hard to access markets and very, very hard to buy land and build a house, but they are mainly there due to regulation and land ownership - both innovations of the state. Take them away and life becomes cheaper (radically so) and freedom to do some stuff to live becomes easier. Ah, but then the state can't pinch it in taxes...... Finally, you create another strawman to "expose"; the capitalists who "demonise" the unemployed. I've yet to see anyone on HPC who actually does that very thing; heap criticism on people who can't get a job. I've read some posters who complain about a subset who don't want to work but that is not the same as people who cannot get someone to give them a payslip and deduct PAYE. Personally, I demonise the fools and charlatans who have ensnared them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_austrian Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 What we have now is not Capitalism. Socialism is not part of Capitalism. No you don't need unemployment to have Capitalism, you only need a lack of people pointing guns at you telling you what to do. If you don't work in a Capitalist society then, without charity, you will starve. Capitalism means you don't get something for free that was not willingly given by someone else. It means a level playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Authoritarian Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) This suggests that Marxists are correct. Capitalism, at least in its actually existing form, is incapable of providing full employment. The idea of Full employment is another concept dreampt up by the state which allows it to more control over peoples lives. Employment is a means to an end - the end being to satisfaction of material desires - its not an end it itself. I don't want to be coerced into being constantly employed because it makes the official state statistics look 'good'. I would like the economy set up so that people that work are able to get the maximum possible benefit for the minimum effort instead of the current setup whereby workers are treated as easy targets for unscrupulous governments and landlords. Edited July 19, 2009 by chefdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrabus Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 But a loaf of butter is about 60 quid in Ireland. Shop in Northern Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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