ralphmalph Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle6466430.ece Whats good for the yanks is good enough for us. Oh how Nu Labour have ruined once Great Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sillybear2 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Can't we do this to MP's? "You knew the mortgage was non-existent, didn't you! ADMIT IT!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbledon88 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 This may not be allowed, because unlike the gilts thread, it does not really relate to "house prices and the economy." But we are all equally concerned here about the curtailment of our civil liberties and there are frequent threads on such topics as detention without trial, ID cards, fake terrorist "plots", etc. And, for some strange reason, it all seems to go hand in hand with changing life in Britain under NuLabour - HPI, compliant media (hello BBC), dumbing down of education, property porn on TV, debt = wealth, corruption running rife, reward of failure, CCTV everywhere... Anyway, I'm going to kick it off with this story about Met officers using waterboarding in Britain. It might be a good service to have a thread like this and keep adding to it when a new development takes place (as there seems to be something new each week), just to see where we are and see how far we have come viz the Boiling Frog scenario. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...g-suspects.html Six Scotland Yard officers are accused of 'waterboarding' drug suspects By Stephen Wright Six Scotland Yard officers were accused last night of inflicting torture by 'waterboarding'. Four suspects are said to have been subjected to simulated drowning during searches of two properties for drugs. The technique became notorious for its use by U.S. agents on terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay. It has since been banned by President Obama. It is alleged that the Met officers, who have all been suspended, also repeatedly ducked the suspects' heads in buckets of water. Most of the alleged victims are believed to have been foreign nationals detained in North London last year. Scotland Yard has asked the Independent Police Complaints Commission to investigate the claims which, according to informed sources, are being treated very seriously. One insider said: 'It beggars belief that something like this could be going on in the modern Metropolitan Police. It appears certain officers on this squad were completely out of control. Last night senior sources at the Metropolitan Police Authority confirmed that the torture allegations concerned waterboarding. It is understood that local community leaders have been informed that this is the case. Waterboarding entails a prisoner being strapped to a board with his feet raised above his head. His face is covered by a wet cloth as interrogators pour water over it to give the sensation of drowning. Victims are led to believe they are about to die. The allegations are a huge embarrassment to the Met which is currently investigating claims made by a former Guantanamo detainee, Binyam Mohamed, that he was tortured in U.S. custody. He has since returned to the UK. Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson's first four months in charge of the force have been dogged by a series of controversies including allegations of police brutality over the death of a protester at the G20 summit. Anti-terror chief Bob Quick's enforced resignation and the shambolic arrest of Tory MP Damian Green have added to his problems. Since taking over from Sir Ian Blair, Sir Paul has spoken candidly about his desire to crack down on corruption in the ranks. An internal Yard inquiry has also been launched into the torture claims - which has already raised concerns about the apparent lack of supervision by senior Met commanders. The torture claims are at the centre of an expanding investigation into alleged institutional corruption among some officers on the Enfield borough crime squad at Edmonton police station in North London. In February, nine officers based at Edmonton were suspended in connection with an alleged stolen property racket. The torture allegations - involving six of the suspended officers - came to light as a result of further inquiries into the activities of the crime squad. Last night, the IPCC confirmed it is 'investigating the conduct and actions of six police officers during the execution of two drugs warrants at addresses in north London on 4 November 2008'. It added that: 'During a Met investigation into allegations of the mishandling of property by the crime squad on Enfield Borough, watchdog officials were briefed regarding the actions of police officers involved in the execution of this specific warrant. 'The case was referred to the IPCC on April 3 and on that date a decision was taken that a fully independent IPCC investigation would begin in to these specific actions and conduct matters that were alleged to have taken place. 'So far IPCC investigators have conducted house to house enquiries, appealed for witnesses and taken a number of statements. 'This is an ongoing criminal investigation and as such all six officers will be criminally interviewed under caution.' Asked whether the torture allegations including waterboarding, an IPCC spokesman replied: 'We are not speculating on the nature of these allegations.' A Scotland Yard spokesman said last night: 'The Met's Directorate of Professional Standards received information from a Met employee which raised concerns about the conduct of a small number of officers on Enfield borough. 'The Met's DPS then initiated a thorough investigation and as part of this made a referral to the IPCC in April 2009 'The IPCC is independently investigating the actions of six officers during the arrests of five people in November 2008. 'Whilst the investigation is ongoing it is not appropriate to make assumptions. That said these are serious allegations that do raise real concern. 'The Met does not tolerate conduct which falls below the standards that the public and the many outstanding Met officers and staff expect. 'Any allegations of such behaviour are treated very seriously, as this case illustrates, and if found true the strongest possible action will be taken.' Sources say the wider allegations of corruption at the crime squad at Edmonton date back three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krackersdave Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hmmm so the allegation is that they put a cloth over a drug dealers face and poured water on it... Meh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hmmm so the allegation is that they put a cloth over a drug dealers face and poured water on it...Meh.. Which is why things will get a lot worse before they get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 This may not be allowed, because unlike the gilts thread, it does not really relate to "house prices and the economy." But we are all equally concerned here about the curtailment of our civil liberties and there are frequent threads on such topics as detention without trial, ID cards, fake terrorist "plots", etc. And, for some strange reason, it all seems to go hand in hand with changing life in Britain under NuLabour - HPI, compliant media (hello BBC), dumbing down of education, property porn on TV, debt = wealth, corruption running rife, reward of failure, CCTV everywhere...Anyway, I'm going to kick it off with this story about Met officers using waterboarding in Britain. It might be a good service to have a thread like this and keep adding to it when a new development takes place (as there seems to be something new each week), just to see where we are and see how far we have come viz the Boiling Frog scenario. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11...g-suspects.html Six Scotland Yard officers are accused of 'waterboarding' drug suspects By Stephen Wright Six Scotland Yard officers were accused last night of inflicting torture by 'waterboarding'. Four suspects are said to have been subjected to simulated drowning during searches of two properties for drugs. The technique became notorious for its use by U.S. agents on terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay. It has since been banned by President Obama. It is alleged that the Met officers, who have all been suspended, also repeatedly ducked the suspects' heads in buckets of water. Most of the alleged victims are believed to have been foreign nationals detained in North London last year. Scotland Yard has asked the Independent Police Complaints Commission to investigate the claims which, according to informed sources, are being treated very seriously. One insider said: 'It beggars belief that something like this could be going on in the modern Metropolitan Police. It appears certain officers on this squad were completely out of control. Last night senior sources at the Metropolitan Police Authority confirmed that the torture allegations concerned waterboarding. It is understood that local community leaders have been informed that this is the case. Waterboarding entails a prisoner being strapped to a board with his feet raised above his head. His face is covered by a wet cloth as interrogators pour water over it to give the sensation of drowning. Victims are led to believe they are about to die. The allegations are a huge embarrassment to the Met which is currently investigating claims made by a former Guantanamo detainee, Binyam Mohamed, that he was tortured in U.S. custody. He has since returned to the UK. Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson's first four months in charge of the force have been dogged by a series of controversies including allegations of police brutality over the death of a protester at the G20 summit. Anti-terror chief Bob Quick's enforced resignation and the shambolic arrest of Tory MP Damian Green have added to his problems. Since taking over from Sir Ian Blair, Sir Paul has spoken candidly about his desire to crack down on corruption in the ranks. An internal Yard inquiry has also been launched into the torture claims - which has already raised concerns about the apparent lack of supervision by senior Met commanders. The torture claims are at the centre of an expanding investigation into alleged institutional corruption among some officers on the Enfield borough crime squad at Edmonton police station in North London. In February, nine officers based at Edmonton were suspended in connection with an alleged stolen property racket. The torture allegations - involving six of the suspended officers - came to light as a result of further inquiries into the activities of the crime squad. Last night, the IPCC confirmed it is 'investigating the conduct and actions of six police officers during the execution of two drugs warrants at addresses in north London on 4 November 2008'. It added that: 'During a Met investigation into allegations of the mishandling of property by the crime squad on Enfield Borough, watchdog officials were briefed regarding the actions of police officers involved in the execution of this specific warrant. 'The case was referred to the IPCC on April 3 and on that date a decision was taken that a fully independent IPCC investigation would begin in to these specific actions and conduct matters that were alleged to have taken place. 'So far IPCC investigators have conducted house to house enquiries, appealed for witnesses and taken a number of statements. 'This is an ongoing criminal investigation and as such all six officers will be criminally interviewed under caution.' Asked whether the torture allegations including waterboarding, an IPCC spokesman replied: 'We are not speculating on the nature of these allegations.' A Scotland Yard spokesman said last night: 'The Met's Directorate of Professional Standards received information from a Met employee which raised concerns about the conduct of a small number of officers on Enfield borough. 'The Met's DPS then initiated a thorough investigation and as part of this made a referral to the IPCC in April 2009 'The IPCC is independently investigating the actions of six officers during the arrests of five people in November 2008. 'Whilst the investigation is ongoing it is not appropriate to make assumptions. That said these are serious allegations that do raise real concern. 'The Met does not tolerate conduct which falls below the standards that the public and the many outstanding Met officers and staff expect. 'Any allegations of such behaviour are treated very seriously, as this case illustrates, and if found true the strongest possible action will be taken.' Sources say the wider allegations of corruption at the crime squad at Edmonton date back three years. As life begins to get tougher over the coming years, the great unwashed (of which I am a member) will begin to get restless. Our elites know this is coming. They are preparing for it..... 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corevalue Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 As life get tougher over the coming years the great unwashed (of which I am a member) will begin to become restless.Our elites know this is coming They are preparing for it..... Yup. Waterboarding leaves no bruises..... remember how many times suspects used to appear in court with obvious facial injuries, and the judge would be told, well, he tripped up, Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Check out the sort of stuff that goes down in the USA: Tasering a granny in her 70s? No problem! Granny Zapping (that video is quite literally, shocking) but it's not just for oldies - 11 year old kids get in on the fun too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godless Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 If this is found to be true, the officers should be imprisoned like any other civilian. If the integrity of the law cannot be maintained then the law will become the preserve of the lawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oracle Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 It's right to be concerned. There is definitely a move towards a "militarisation" of the police forces.This is happening right across the western world....we've seen it already from rather harsh treatment at demonstrations to the use of the new psy-op scary black unidentified uniforms and ski-masks) I gather obama has just gone one better and now has got the red-shirts/brown-shirts etc for different areas of government. couple this with the disarmament/restrictions on firearms in places like US/Canada/Australia...who traditionally have either these items for hunting/self defence(as per our original constitution too) you can see there is a hierarchical system developing . worker ants soldier ants(police-military) drones (politicians) and the head honcho I actually hope there are some of our beat bobbies reading this and trying to figure out what's going on. This is totally bloody unacceptable.Members of my family died trying to stop this shit happening not so long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 If this is found to be true, the officers should be imprisoned like any other civilian. If the integrity of the law cannot be maintained then the law will become the preserve of the lawless. The integrity of the law is only ever maintained in order to preserve the position of our ruling elites who are and always have been a law unto themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 It's right to be concerned.There is definitely a move towards a "militarisation" of the police forces.This is happening right across the western world....we've seen it already from rather harsh treatment at demonstrations to the use of the new psy-op scary black unidentified uniforms and ski-masks) I gather obama has just gone one better and now has got the red-shirts/brown-shirts etc for different areas of government. couple this with the disarmament/restrictions on firearms in places like US/Canada/Australia...who traditionally have either these items for hunting/self defence(as per our original constitution too) you can see there is a hierarchical system developing . worker ants soldier ants(police-military) drones (politicians) and the head honcho I actually hope there are some of our beat bobbies reading this and trying to figure out what's going on. This is totally bloody unacceptable.Members of my family died trying to stop this shit happening not so long ago. I can see the logic and agree in principle with your hierarchical model. However, I would argue that this has always been the case. The only difference now is that the hierarchy is becoming more visible and starkly defined as we move ever closer to global crisis When times are "good", most people are happy to pretend that they are free. When times are bad, our elites force people to pretend that they are free. When times are really bad, the pretence falls away and people are directly and unambiguously suppressed by our elites. Arguably, we are well into the second phase of this process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godless Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 The integrity of the law is only ever maintained in order to preserve the position of our ruling elites who are and always have been a law unto themselves. Indeed, but there's always room for further "improvement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Indeed, but there's always room for further "improvement" Indeed, there is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 And where they cant break the law for fear of massive civil unrest they consider moving the goal posts as we can see with Labours desire to reform the voting rules. yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Hmmm so the allegation is that they put a cloth over a drug dealers face and poured water on it...Meh.. What? What did you think waterboarding was? This is exactly how the US has waterboarded since Vietnam! It is the only way to ensure maximum drowning effect with a lower risk of death. It is extreme torture! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Mario Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 If this is found to be true, the officers should be imprisoned like any other civilian. If the integrity of the law cannot be maintained then the law will become the preserve of the lawless. I think I now actually despise the police. They all seem to be corrupt violent thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Ex-Governer and Vietnam vet Jesse Ventura explains why waterboarding is torture: I've been Waterboarded! It's Torture! Jesse Ventura http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp2BnmslF8k US talkshow host gets waterboarded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I think I now actually despise the police. They all seem to be corrupt violent thugs. some of them are corrupt. some of them are violent thugs. However, I would argue that the primary qualification for the job is that they should be relatively unthinking and unquestioning. All other things naturally follow from this. In a world of thinking men who question all ideologies, good men do good things and bad men do bad things However, it takes a world of unthinking men who unquestioningly follow an ideology to make good men do bad things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 some of them are corrupt.some of them are violent thugs. However, I would argue that the primary qualification for the job is that they should be relatively unthinking and unquestioning. All other things naturally follow from this. In a world of thinking men who question all ideologies, good men do good things and bad men do bad things However, it takes a world of unthinking men who unquestioningly follow an ideology to make good men do bad things Which is why we have state education. So that thinking is wrung out of most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Mario Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 some of them are corrupt.some of them are violent thugs. However, I would argue that the primary qualification for the job is that they should be relatively unthinking and unquestioning. All other things naturally follow from this. In a world of thinking men who question all ideologies, good men do good things and bad men do bad things However, it takes a world of unthinking men who unquestioningly follow an ideology to make good men do bad things I think I now actually despise the police. They all seem to be unthinking and unquestioning corrupt violent thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Which is why we have state education.So that thinking is wrung out of most people. Education, education, education A simple bind To blind the mind Of those too young to see We educate To dissipate All curiosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve Cook Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I think I now actually despise the police. They all seem to be unthinking and unquestioning corrupt violent thugs. very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Mario Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 very good It's the same here in Canada - what with the police busy tazering innocent people to death and the like. Scum, all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOP Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 More on waterboarding: Jesse Ventura on Larry King-Waterboarding is torture 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4BFLPOCpls Jesse Ventura on Larry King-Waterboarding is torture 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBjeFVlPWQ...feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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