Altrincham/hale/halebarns

[Venger]

But there is the rub. I know of a few people in the NW who bought in 2007 at the sub-£200k of the market . Some of them want to move, but realise that they'd have to take a hit. At the moment, that's too much for them to stomach (physiological, rather than rational financial thinking) and so have decided to stay put. The mortgage payments - thanks to QE's - are manageable, so there is no panic to sell. They will just carry on like this for a few more years, irrespective of whether prices drop further. They simply don't have the finances to trade-up, and job worries, cost-of-living worries, etc., make staying put the easiest option.

And that leaves us with whom? Well, as Venger pointed out, there are those that bought so long ago that they can afford to drop. The chain that I mentioned one of my family members was in recently in South Manchester was all made up of folks who had owned for 15 years+. To them, a 20-25% drop still left them with a healthy profit. So no worries. Of course, as we've discussed, it's the sales figures of these recently sold properties turning up on the various registries that 'set the standard' for future house prices. Those lower prices may cause some of those mentioned in my first paragraph to stay put even longer - once they realise the true hit they'd have to take. And who else will sell? Well, I guess 'second home' owners - BTL'ers who realise the streets - or rather houses - aren't paved with gold; those who inherit a property due to a death in the family; and those going through a divorce (in fact, one of these was in the chain I mentioned above.)

So, all-in-all, I think we'll see some supply improvements - especially on the larger, older properties, as they tend to be owned by older folks who will still walk away with a profit - but not a flood, IMHO. I maybe wrong, but so far, the cheaper end of the market hasn't shown much in the way of drops or supply. Who knows, maybe that's a temporary phenomena, but I have my doubts. With low IR's, there just isn't the pressure for people to sell at present.

I almost sound 'bullish' with the above comments! Of course, I'm not, I'm actually uber-bearish when it comes to property. It's just that I think the falls across the market - rather than just the £500k+ bracket, will take much more time to materialise fully. Yes, there will be properties coming to the market all the time, but just not in huge numbers.

As ever, happy to accept any other opinions on this.

One fear I do have is those who do manage to sell at the higher ends, being more willing to overpay when downsizing to homes at the level I'm interested in.

Then other owner/sellers of the types of homes I'm interested in, seeing the odd sales going through at high prices, even if there are very few such sales because homes at the higher ends being ever harder to sell. Thus keeping up an illusion to other owners at the lower end (in good areas) that's what their homes are worth because someone has just paid that much.

However there still will be those who begin to recongnise it matters little that they discount their own homes (at the level I'm interested in) when homes higher up they've long been interested in upsizing to are much better purchase value (after asking price cuts).

Limited number of downsizers, who can overpay, can't compete with the overall market dynamic.

There's this, in case you missed it, which is encouraging in Cambridge, and hopefully is the kind of trigger for cascading values. When we have more transactions such as these, in a what has now long been a market with low transaction numbers. This has got to become more common, setting ever lower values (for owners trying to sell and owners who don't even have their homes on the market.)

A look on Rightmove for those looking to move in the Cambridge area is still fairly depressing reading.

Cambridge and the immediate suburbs are still ludicrously priced and at first glance villages within 5-10 miles still are too.

However 2 lots of our friends have moved recently and the actual agreed sales prices are 20-25% less than the Rightmove prices.

One couple had their house on the market for 240k but sold for £200k (less than the 2004 purchase price) and bought a house that was on the market for £450k for £370k.

Even at this level of discount houses are still hugely overpriced compared to local wages but it might FINALLY be happening around here.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Ah ****** it, wouldn't have made sense anyway. Still seeing modernised houses (I.e. property developers) go for renting not sale and still seeing people (the mere mortals I know) actively participating in the market as though everything is normal. There is still a long way down.

[Nomadd]

Where do the buyers you know who bought in 2007 at the sub £200K price range want to move to (even if they're holding out for the moment because can't stomach accepting lower prices) ? If so I'm not concerned about them at all. If they amongst those who've overpaid and in tricky financial positions, it won't stop new supply coming on, at lower prices, from those who realise they can sell for less and get much better value trading up.

Well, they want to trade up. But they can't afford to do this (for all the reasons previously mentioned.) In the cases I know of, it's the arrival of children that have made them start to look at the housing market again. So, as I say, they do affect your ability to purchase, as they simply stay in the properties they are in and don't bring them to the market.

You may have a different perspective on supply because your financial position is superior (I've no issues with that whatsoever) to those of us looking more towards the entry level in nicer areas. You can open Rightmove and see lots of properties you're in a position to buy if you wanted to, although I realise you do have specific demands in the type of home you're looking for. It's just a bit frustrating for those seeking to buy at the lower end of good areas for supply, in my opinion.

And that's the exact point I'm making. The post I replied to, by tbf, was him lamenting the lack of properties in the approx. £200k part of the market. That's what my last few posts have been addressing, not the higher market. As tbf stated, there just isn't the supply coming on in the ~£200k market, and what is coming on is holding on to firm pricing. Mind you, we have seen a lot of sticking stuff in the £230-250k, so it's only a matter of time...

Hah. There's been wildly differing opinions about the supply levels recently. Glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks supply is not as good as it could be, or should be except for government intervention on behalf of owners.

Well, I for one agree with you about this particular section of the market. What I remarked previously about supply was mainly in relation to Hale/Hale Barns (most of the areas in the thread title): it's not a huge area, so you're never going to see huge numbers of properties all for sale at the same time.

One fear I do have is those who do manage to sell at the higher ends, being more willing to overpay when downsizing to homes at the level I'm interested in.

Then other owner/sellers of the types of homes I'm interested in, seeing the odd sales going through at high prices, even if there are very few such sales because homes at the higher ends being ever harder to sell. Thus keeping up an illusion to other owners at the lower end (in good areas) that's what their homes are worth because someone has just paid that much.

Completely agree.

As I said a few posts back, two yp's on reasonable - not great - salaries in the NW will find that a 3-4 times multiple gets them to £180-240k spend. So it's always going to remain tight in this section of the market until "something gives." Add in the "downsizers" you mention (and my family member in the chain I mentioned above was doing just that) and the competition is even greater...

I notice today on the front page of HPC that the Daily Wail is talking about people getting hit by rising SVR mortgage rates. Maybe these costs, plus all the other increasing living costs will be the final catalyst for falls in this discussed section of the market? Probably will be. But I think that's going to be a long drawn out process over the next 2-5 years, rather than a "shock to the system", like a sudden large increase in IRs would be. That's all I'm really claiming. As ever, time will be the final arbiter.

[Venger]

Well, they want to trade up. But they can't afford to do this (for all the reasons previously mentioned.) In the cases I know of, it's the arrival of children that have made them start to look at the housing market again. So, as I say, they do affect your ability to purchase, as they simply stay in the properties they are in and don't bring them to the market.

Ahh they want to trade up ok. I somehow got the mistaken view they wanted to cut their debts and move to cheaper areas.

Yes in those instances they are hogging supply. Ok that's perhaps a bit unfair. They've been protected somewhat with intervention to help make their existing mortgage debt affordable, and are under less pressure. Although the pressure could be rising, such as with rising SVRs that you're referring to, and which I got an email about this morning from a friend. (I think SVRs and other small combinations of pressures will build up on such owners eventually, even if interest rates continued to be held at such lows.)

If they wanted to trade up and had the money/equity, then they should be able to stomach falls in value on their homes.

Either way, if there are many such owners in that position, then that's surely a chunk of owners who are not competing for the trade up houses.

So what about the sellers of the homes such entry home owners now covet to trading up to? Who do those owners sell to? A contracting buyers market place is my view, when so many can't afford to trade up from entry level homes in nice areas bought in 2007. Little equity or savings, and no eager lenders, and hesitation for employment prospects.

Meaning those owners will eventually have to lower their asking prices, for those who have entry homes and aren't overstretched. And those of us positioned to take advantage.

However most likely there are many owners of the trade up homes, who bought not so long ago when they also began to have families, who are also being soothed by policy. Repayments kept affordable, with no pressure or desire to sell. Not all of them though. Many older owners have lived their lives in such homes and more of them eventually will want to sell, to a contracting buyer market.

The effect travels upwards. Fewer upsizers in the market. Active sellers will have to cut their prices to find buyers, and there are fewer proceed-able buyers. Transactions are way down but something has to give.

And those cuts in asking prices will surely eventually weigh upon the value entry level homes as well. The gap narrowing a lot, perhaps one day even below the prices paid for those entry level homes in 2007. And the same effect all the way up the market if the entry home people want to trade up but are in no financial position to do so. The effect goes all the way up.

And that's the exact point I'm making. The post I replied to, by tbf, was him lamenting the lack of properties in the approx. £200k part of the market. That's what my last few posts have been addressing, not the higher market. As tbf stated, there just isn't the supply coming on in the ~£200k market, and what is coming on is holding on to firm pricing. Mind you, we have seen a lot of sticking stuff in the £230-250k, so it's only a matter of time...

Ok. I've got more hope that the market will eventually break and begin to show much better value above the entry level. With fewer buyers competing against me. Stuck in their entry level homes. It's just not frozen, unless the BTLers and investors and property developers (SYNT referred to this morning) renting out property, somehow keep it wider market values supported against what are significant market forces in play.

How do they possibly stop more older downsizers coming to market, wanting to sell, release equity, finding there are fewer buyers, from cutting their asking prices. They can't keep the entire market cornered. It's got to break.

[Nomadd]

Either way, if there are many such owners in that position, then that's surely a chunk of owners who are not competing for the trade up houses.

Yep, as ever, it can be looked at from both directions: flushed downsizers keeping up the pressure. Or skint starters (unable to compete) releaving the pressure.

So what about the sellers of the homes such entry home owners now covet to trading up to? Who do those owners sell to? A contracting buyers market place is my view, when so many can't afford to trade up from entry level homes in nice areas bought in 2007. Little equity or savings, and no eager lenders, and hesitation for employment prospects.

Meaning those owners will eventually have to lower their asking prices, for those who have entry homes and aren't overstretched. And those of us positioned to take advantage.

I only know of one couple in the NW who bought a starter home around that time. Paid ~£130k. Similar properties listing now for just over £100k. A few, which have needed little work, have actually sold for well under £100k. If the price is right, there will always be someone to buy at this end of the market - even the BTL brigade, still.

Ok. I've got more hope that the market will eventually break and begin to show much better value above the entry level. With fewer buyers competing against me. Stuck in their entry level homes. It's just not frozen, unless the BTLers and investors and property developers (SYNT referred to this morning) renting out property, somehow keep it wider market values supported against what are significant market forces in play.

How do they possibly stop more older downsizers coming to market, wanting to sell, release equity, finding there are fewer buyers, from cutting their asking prices. They can't keep the entire market cornered. It's got to break.

Well, it is breaking. It's just doing it a lot slower than many of us would like!

I think the one note of caution I would add about all this starter home stuff (and generally the £200-250k end of the market) is location. I'd hate to sound like Kirstie & Phil, but location has a huge impact on this. It seems to me there are a lot of people - and maybe always will be - who are prepared to stretch that "extra yard" to get a home in a better NW location (i.e. like those which are the very title of this thread.) Now this may be for purely practical reasons - better social life, better schools, etc. Or it may be simple inverted snobbery. Whatever, this will have a firming affect on cheaper homes in these areas, so even in a tight market, they may not drop as much as the wider market.

I've a feeling that getting a decent - but not hugely priced - property in these better NW locations may still end up being a multi-step process for most people (just like it was in the old days.) I don't think walking straight into a nice house in Hale - even at the lower end of the market - will be, or ever was, practical for most people. Unless, that is, you had a "plan" of some form in place to achieve this. I did (and have documented it elsewhere); others on this site never seemed to have one, no matter how many times I asked... IMHO, it's a dangerous game to fight with just one hand, hoping that "market forces" alone will one day make the dream home (well, maybe not quite that) in the right location drop into one's lap.

It's nice to see from your recent posts that you are thinking outside-the-box. I've a feeling that getting something that "requires work" will help you leap ahead of those who are simply waiting for the right, pristine property to come on the market at just the right price. That was always a long shot, IMHO. And although the initial property you get might not be ideal, you've enough time on your side to slowly work your way upwards. Rome wasn't built in a day, and all that.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

I've a feeling that getting a decent - but not hugely priced - property in these better NW locations may still end up being a multi-step process for most people (just like it was in the old days.)

I didn't have you down as a ladder cultist. I was wrong.

The gap narrowing a lot, perhaps one day even below the prices paid for those entry level homes in 2007.

Its started

below 2007 price http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/29-beech-road/hale/altrincham/wa15-9hx/25443453

below 2008 price http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/116-moss-lane/hale/altrincham/wa15-8af/25438852

[Nomadd]

I didn't have you down as a ladder cultist. I was wrong.

No, not really.

Just trying to make the point that a nice family home in a very nice part of the NW may be a tad unrealistic as a first step for many folks. Always was in the past, so I can't see why that would be any different today? Unless, of course, you have/had a "plan B" for funding it, as I mentioned.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

No, not really.

Not really is far more optimistic than I.

The way I see it, for people my age, mid-30s, there will only be one chance, one purchase. So don't ****** it up. You'll need to be a very special flower to expect to work your way up from where you land. There is no more free equity for rookies and new starters for the foreseeable future.

I'm looking at starter homes <100sq.m. 'starter' homes and wondering whether I can raise my children there, live there for 25 years. Family homes? They are a distant dream.

[manchester50]

As another in their mid-thirties with children I agree with SYNT. I do not expect to buy a house and then trade up after 5-10 years. I'm pretty much at the income level I will reach, the house I buy next isn't going to surge in value, and I don't expect the houses at the level above that to make dramatic relative falls (especially taking into account the cost of moving/two lots of stamp duty etc). It's why despite my eldest being a toddler I'm looking at secondary school catchments etc.

In my view 'the ladder' is pretty much dead, at least for the time being. What is the age of the average FTB now - mid thirties? By that age you are looking for a home you can fit kids in, you've scrimped and saved to get the deposit/fees together and there's a good chance your income has recently dropped/about to drop if having kids and there's a break in employment/shift to pt work for one.

[Venger]

Its started

below 2007 price http://www.zoopla.co...15-9hx/25443453

below 2008 price http://www.zoopla.co...15-8af/25438852

I see what you mean.

House 1:

29th Jun 2007: Sold for £343,000.

26th Jun 2012: Sold for £338,500.

House 2:

16th Jun 2008: Sold for £225,000

29th Jun 2012: Sold for £223,000

I hope we're beginning to see real signs of correction, after the painful reflation beginning in 2009.

What I was suggesting though is if and when fewer buyers are able to trade up to the 2nd step homes, the owners of such trade up houses who are seeking to sell (especially equity richer older owners), may have to lower their asking prices.

Until their asking prices for the nicer homes are ever closer towards the current asking prices of starter homes. Maybe at some point breaching the asking prices the few starter homes on the market are asking today..

It's a nice theory, but then I look at Rightmove, supply and asking prices, and get totally depressed again.

I'm just putting forward a theory that the owners sitting tight in the starter homes might not be as immune to falls in value, simply because they think they can afford it with low interest rates, and very few of them up for sale. Those with nicer homes might begin to decide matters for them, lowering their asking prices, which would impact on the value of starter homes no matter what. (Eventually, when we get some pressures bearing down on the market.)

[Venger]

As I said a few posts back, two yp's on reasonable - not great - salaries in the NW will find that a 3-4 times multiple gets them to £180-240k spend. So it's always going to remain tight in this section of the market until "something gives." Add in the "downsizers" you mention (and my family member in the chain I mentioned above was doing just that) and the competition is even greater...

You've set that out before and I've had my doubts.

What does £180K to £240K get you in the nicer areas? Not a lot. Not a lot for many people who have established themselves in good jobs. There isn't the certainty going forwards for as many of them for career progression and pay rises either.

I also know yp's who've bought and have been surprised, given they're qualified and are in high pressure jobs, they've accepted so little in for their money/mortgage debt in terms of housing. That's many of them done as well. Probably stuck in those homes for the long term, as in the examples of some owners you know who've bought. Unable to move up to a nicer home, even if prices fall. Overstretched.

I'm hoping more of them will put the market under siege and refuse to accept what's on offer. And more downsizers will have to follow the approach your family members took in that chain in order to sell. Their higher value homes being sold for less. That impacts on values for other owners and sellers of similar homes in the area, helping bring prices down. I just have reason to think they're not a threat to supporting prices of smaller homes in nice areas overall. Too few of them, fewer upsizers, unless at ever lower prices as we go forwards.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Sure, yep.

It doesn't change the numbers on the rent v buy on the £310k house above though and your example assumes you will rent a home below the value of the one you wish to buy (more or less. i.e. not comparable). Agree that's a strategy but it doesn't change the numbers.

I was attempting to differentiate between what people may do in their personal circumstances from the valuation of the asset itself. When you're looking at AAPL at $650 for instance you're looking at it independently from the personal lives, choices, and financial situation of AAPL shareholders (Not an exact comparison but you can see where I'm coming from I'm sure).

What caught my attention was how rental yields may be moving from <3% to, in this case, more or less 4%. It may be a one-off, but it's worth keeping an eye as it has historically been an early indicator of the start of the next cycle. Whether that seems plausible or not. We'll only know for certain with hindsight.

3.75%

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/88-hale-road/hale/altrincham/wa15-9hs/25443410?utm_source=news&utm_medium=email&utm_content=0cf5ad5dd01d50cf

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-24313140.html?premiumA=true

More of this worrying immediate BTL at not exactly the HB end of the market

Confused this has taken so long to come to market

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/9-beech-road/hale/altrincham/wa15-9hx/25443433 Sold in may last year. I thought I had previously seen someone move in. Move in and renovate?

Now claiming to be finishing refurb? http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-35961883.html doubt its going to be the 6% yield the figures suggest. It was originally marketed by j hilbitch at 250k no offers and in need of modernisation so should have had some money spent on it.

[R K]

3.75%

http://www.zoopla.co...cf5ad5dd01d50cf

http://www.rightmove...l?premiumA=true

More of this worrying immediate BTL at not exactly the HB end of the market

Confused this has taken so long to come to market

http://www.zoopla.co...15-9hx/25443433 Sold in may last year. I thought I had previously seen someone move in. Move in and renovate?

Now claiming to be finishing refurb? http://www.rightmove...y-35961883.html doubt its going to be the 6% yield the figures suggest. It was originally marketed by j hilbitch at 250k no offers and in need of modernisation so should have had some money spent on it.

Christ! to first one.

Btw, noticed the tenants moved into that renovated cottage on Church Brow over the weekend. It appears to have gone off rightmove too.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Christ! to first one.

Btw, noticed the tenants moved into that renovated cottage on Church Brow over the weekend. It appears to have gone off rightmove too.

Christ in what way? Only reasonable reason i could entertain is wanting that house in the area but currently living elsewhere and renting it in the mean time.

[R K]

Christ in what way? Only reasonable reason i could entertain is wanting that house in the area but currently living elsewhere and renting it in the mean time.

Ghastly. £380k. £1195. Kitchen. Exterior. Location on Hale Rd. (I know it's popular) Nightmare for nippers running into road. Everything.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Ghastly. £380k. £1195. Kitchen. Exterior. Location on Hale Rd. (I know it's popular) Nightmare for nippers running into road. Everything.

Ah, taste but for once, I thought we had a pretty clear example of price discovery.

Not wanting to be a defender of the place and without trying to evoke the spirit of the 4 Yorkshiremen, some of us could only dream of attaining ghastly.

Good sport anyway, RR

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Can someone order me a big bag of popcorn? I have a real top of the peaks, peaky barometer of a house gone on the market today.

A 2 bed terrace, last sold on the 31st July 2007 for £280,000. Sounds like they've added a bedroom and bathroom, not got full details yet but asking price is £350,000. Let's see what the market is saying at the moment...

£280,000 in July 2007, I wonder who the lender is?

[Nomadd]

Can someone order me a big bag of popcorn? I have a real top of the peaks, peaky barometer of a house gone on the market today.

A 2 bed terrace, last sold on the 31st July 2007 for £280,000. Sounds like they've added a bedroom and bathroom, not got full details yet but asking price is £350,000. Let's see what the market is saying at the moment...

£280,000 in July 2007, I wonder who the lender is?

Well, at ~92% of asking (working on the "normal" scheme of things), you'd be looking for a Sale price of ~£320k. For a moment, let's pretend that is what the EA and vendor assume.

So, £40k for an extra bedroom and bathroom. If they had to extend the entire house to the side to achieve this, then it would probably have cost a lot more than £40k to achieve. However, if they just sliced-n-diced existing rooms up (not sure how in a 2 bed terrace, as they are usually way too small), then it would have cost next to nothing. More detail needed, really. And if they had gone to a lot of effort (i.e. extension work) then they would probably have renewed the kitchen at the same time (again, could be a cheapo job, or a mega expensive fit.)

Link? Any recent sales to go by (should imagine a few since July 2007...)?

Still, enjoy the popcorn!

EDIT: Extra bedroom/bathroom in a loft conversion?

Edited October 18, 2012 by Nomadd

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Well, at ~92% of asking (working on the "normal" scheme of things), you'd be looking for a Sale price of ~£320k. For a moment, let's pretend that is what the EA and vendor assume.

So, £40k for an extra bedroom and bathroom. If they had to extend the entire house to the side to achieve this, then it would probably have cost a lot more than £40k to achieve. However, if they just sliced-n-diced existing rooms up (not sure how in a 2 bed terrace, as they are usually way too small), then it would have cost next to nothing. More detail needed, really. And if they had gone to a lot of effort (i.e. extension work) then they would probably have renewed the kitchen at the same time (again, could be a cheapo job, or a mega expensive fit.)

Link? Any recent sales to go by (should imagine a few since July 2007...)?

Still, enjoy the popcorn!

EDIT: Extra bedroom/bathroom in a loft conversion?

This is why one calls for popcorn. The house is 63 Cedar Road. The agent is Fishdick. Not on rightmove yet and no full description but sign was up yesterday and draft particulars on their own website - want to get my 'assessment' in first to see if I'm right. My spidey-sense is starting to impress the wife when it comes to assessing houses - "someone's died" or "that's a rental" or "something funny going on there" etc.

The house itself last sold for £280,000 in July 2007 and before that for £105,000 in Nov 2000. First assumption/assessment I'll make is that previous owners would have done any required modernisation work as 180% HPI in 7 years seems a lot. In 2007 it should have been in perfect condition, otherwise current owners over paid substantially.

These houses are 2 bed terraces, small frontage but reasonable garden for a terrace, look quite narrow and do not have a bay window. They look small but others for sale have looked bigger than I would have expected. As far as I know these ones do not have cellars. Full details are not up yet but it describes it as 3 bed, 2 bath. Zoopla has it as a 2 bed. So I will assume they have done the work required to add a bedroom and bathroom. Easiest way to add the extra space is convert the loft for a bedroom and a bathroom on what is a small house, I suggest there is a loft dormer too. I'll need to have a peek in daylight to see about any work.

Either way, its very likely they've done some serious work on it but, its still fundamentally a small house, its likely they've pushed it to its full potential and for £70,000 uplift, I would expect them to have done the kitchen and bathroom too. Even so, the 2007 price seems high and its not 2007 anymore. Taking your purchase price, adding on the building works and a lump for profit, isn't going to wash.

Now things get interesting...

Next door, 61, sold for £260,000 in May 2011, originally marketed for £280,000. It was still a 2 bed, 1 bath property but it did look like it was nicely done and was in a ready to move in, no work at required condition.

No 51 was for sale at a similar time to No 61. Not as good condition so asking price was £260,000. It said sold on the board but then a LET BY sign appeared and no thing ever came up on the recorded sales. I assumed it didn't actually sell but a house I know was sold hasn't appeared on the land registry data so it seems there are people buying them through company structures and the sale prices are not openly available. Can anyone help on that?

The other side, 65, sold in Dec 2009 for... wait for it... £160,000. I would assume it was a complete wreck but even so, these are 2 bed terraces, even my wife would struggle to spend £100,000 on building works

And then we have the rest of the street. No. 12 is the other side of the road, other end too but was sold on the basis of being a 2 bed terrace with a loft conversion living space (presumably not building regs for bedroom). Bay fronted house so basic house appears bigger, South facing garden, possibly a little smaller. Was on the market initially for around £325,000 but had a couple of asking price drops to £300,000 before selling in Dec 2011 for 285,500

No. 29 is nominally a 3 bedroom end terrace but the third bedroom is of the 7' square variety and if I remember correctly the layout was a little strange in that it had a tiny kitchen and an outhouse utility area. What was odd was that they weren't on the same level (garden was lower than ground floor (no cellar either) so I couldn't quite work out how to make the layout work. Anyway, decent garden all things considered and it sold in Aug 2011 for £265,000. If nothing else this one looks more impressive than the cottages at the end of the street.

No 27 came on the market in Mar/Apr this year for OIEO £250,000. Same layout as No. 29 but i think it was probate as it requires full modernisation - no central heating etc. Given No. 29 price, I thought £250,000 for this was too much. No recorded sale yet. I think in this market £225,000 would be closer to the mark.

Then the big guns, No 5 was on at an asking of £375,000 and sold for £353,000 in Sep 2011. Now these houses look the part. Bay front possibly 2 storey bay, little turret on the roof. I think it was advertised as 3 or 4 bed and it had a converted cellar

Similar storey for No. 45, I think asking price went £390,000, then £375,000 and sale was at £357,500 in Dec 2011. Again, nice terrace frontage, not a cottage, was a 3 or 4 bed, assume it has a cellar but not sure.

So, all in all I think, in this market they'll be lucky to get back what they paid despite any work done as prices on these sorts of houses are creeping downward. If someone wants "nice and small" there are other houses that would offer more value with less money spent overall.

Finally, there is an outlier. 51 Oak Road which was originally a 2 bed terrace but seemed to be developed with a dormer loft into a similar 3 bed, 2 bath thing. Also has a part, low height cellar and they've converted the frontage for car parking - crass but a selling point. Garden, I imagine is slightly smaller than the Cedar Road house. Somehow and I really don't understand how, it sold for £340,000 in June 2012. Different agent though. I think those buyers are mugs but it doesn't matter what I think, they were buyers. The question now is how many other buyers are there?

Also would just like to say that sold prices are fact and easily checkable but you'll need to forgive me on asking prices and room details, they're off the top of my head and subject to being wrong.

Well, at ~92% of asking (working on the "normal" scheme of things)

I think 95% is closer in this area on the houses I tend to watch.

Edited October 19, 2012 by SeeYouNextTuesday

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Was offered a viewing today on a two bed terrace on one of the B roads (whatever that is) at £240k

This one?

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38283482.html

The b streets are Byrom st, Bold st, Brown st and Bath st that sit between Hale road and the small side of the village - amba/spice lounge side of the level crossing. Bit too cramped for me. I'd rather not rent there, let alone buy.

[R K]

This one?

http://www.rightmove...y-38283482.html

The b streets are Byrom st, Bold st, Brown st and Bath st that sit between Hale road and the small side of the village - amba/spice lounge side of the level crossing. Bit too cramped for me. I'd rather not rent there, let alone buy.

SYNT - your post from another thread on 12/10 on average discounts:

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:42 PM

Don't hometrack have a figure for this?

I thought it was around 8% at the moment

Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:51 PM

http://www.hometrack...-demand-weakens

7% apparently - but in my experience tends to be anything from 0 to 25% dependent on circumstances of vendor (eg developers knocking big lumps off if selling last few plots)

http://www.housepric...howtopic=183738

92% confirmed then.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Red Knight

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

SYNT - your post from another thread on 12/10 on average discounts:

http://www.housepric...howtopic=183738

92% confirmed then.

Does that give me carte blanche to print out a pretty HPI chart and demand 20% off 2007 prices?

Thought not.

I made an observation bounded by both area and property type. See my last post.

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Yes. It's not that it's overpriced, which it is. It's just that I don;t want to live in such a small house.

Madness, there was recently a 1400 sq ft terrace (presumed cellar and loft) on for 250k.

Also, similar with undeveloped cellar and a small garden on for 235 - sold quite soon though.

Stuff that is priced a bit less is still sellign.

[bonse]

the attraction is that it is nice area, would you rather be sitting outside costa on ashley road hale or outside a greasy spoon on washway road. having said that there does seem to be a fair few dickheads in hale I saw a white range rover with number plate snob one. I presume the owner was not being ironic

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Sometimes, as another Mummy leaves her Range Rover parked diagonally outside Costa, I do wonder why I bother with Hale. It does have an attraction to me, but at times I just can't quite work out what it is.

My wife comes from a continental cafe culture, whether you are rich or, like us, poor.

Being sat outside a kebab shop in Hulme is not quite the same.

Edited October 23, 2012 by SeeYouNextTuesday