dogbox

And why do you think it 'seems' no one cares? Could it be that the rest of us non pessimists just accept life is hard and unequal and simply get on with it as best we can, in the fully knowledge that most of us can pretty much achieve whatever outcomes we desire as long as we programme our brain cells to excert the correct life inputs? No conspiracies, just accept life is an arms race or you will forvever feel embittered.

You guys will understandable dislike my saying this again, but surely you think it's important you analyise the way your minds process information? A pessimist is someone who's processing centre finds much want with the world around them, and typically will default to the bleak view the world is against them / us, with conspiracies hatched around every corner. Carry on as you are, I dont give a monkeys, but just for a day why not try and unhinge your robotised childhood instincts, and have some fun with your processing centre. Try and see that the world is'nt a nasty demonised place out to get you, go on I dare you, just for a day!

But what of OUR own responsibility? We cry 'rop off Britain', we shop around, we brag when we aquire a good or service for less, ALL THIS IS WHAT DRIVES DOWN WAGES.

A genuine enquiry on what people think is the new lasting socio - economic reality, that most conservative thinkers will dismiss out of hand probably to thier last breath. In science every major step change is always dismissed by the majority of older scientists, and I want to know what unfolding socio - economic step change REALITY will be dismissed by the majoirty hooked to the established reality. To illustrate how Humans are so hooked into the old reality despite new evidence, here are some examples from science; On each occasion a scientist proferred the age of the Earth to be greater than the existing consensus, nearly all (and often all) peers dismissed the new findings. Kelvin for example, went to his grave believing the Earth was 20,000 years old despite the new overwhelming science revealing for certain a much greater age. In 1946, a Uk scientist was politely dismissed for his theory based on carbon dating that the Earth was at least 3bn years old. The consensus had it at less than 1bn. In 1953 an American scientist claimed the atmophere and Humans were being poisoned by Lead. Almost all considered this a fantasy, the work of a mad man, yet by the 1990s most civilised nations had outlawed it's use, although The Americans continued to allow lead in paint, which is ironic given the neo con attitude to lead in childrens toys from China nowadays! NEARLY ALL PEOPLE HAVE IMMOVABLE VIEWS DESPITE THE EVIDENCE. THE NEW SOCIA - ECONOMIC REALITY IS THIS: Civilisation has tamed the crash, to such an extent as to render crashes relatively feable and certainly contained to jsut a small proportion of the population unlike was the case in 1929. Am I a nutter? (BTW, yes I was educated in the Comprehensive system and yes my grasp of English is very poor)

It's just back ground noise, and what investors rely upon so they can buy in the dips. In the last 3 years on here there must have been 500 threads stating 'sm about to melt down'. Surely by now you have educated your brain cells to take a rational calm view? All pessimists at all times use the term "markets are out of kilter". I 100% gurantee you will still be saying this in 10 years - remember this. In other words your realities are just phantoms. Nothing personal grumpy, just trying to get you to see the world a little differently.

I've bought land, but raising finance is not easy. The reason is lenders deem there is a restricted market for such assets. In times of recession such assets can be very hard to sell so the lender will deem there is inadequate security. This type of land can bed 'valuable' in your eyes as you have a specific recreational attatchment, howver, lenders will correctly assume most others are unlikely to have the same emmotional attatchment.

AND NOW BACK TO REALITY........... C & G rates from 4.88% (big fee, but this can be leant to borrower and then paid back to lender in 2 years, the interest paid on the fee being £220 over 2 years) CAPITAL HOME LOANS (Irish Permanent) - 95% SELF CERT mortgages BRISTOL & WEST / BANK OF IRELAND - 90% SELF CERT for FTB'S, no call to Accountant / Employer

Of course Bankers and brokers lie, no surprise though as everyone's at it; Labour's Barbara Roach (the one who looks like a Knarwhale) was utterly convincing in 1999 on Newsnight when she categorically assured us Labour was finally on top of immigration Jeremy Paxman bandies about the term 'fat cats' aimed at city executives whilst at the same time he steals £980,000 pa from the Tax payer for Newsnight alone plus all the programmes, books and appearances, which seems feline obese to me John Humprey's BBC ads convinced me digital TV was 'better' than analogue, yet 3 years on and we get constant 'drop outs' and non signals despite hundreds spent on boosters etc etc - HAS JOHN WARNED LITTLE OLD LADIES THIS MAY HAPPEN TO THEM TOO?

Soldintime, it sounds a great lifestyle, I'm envious. There are an awful lot of people who are'nt investment savvy. Only yesterday someone told me they own a property in Italy and has given not the slightest thought to the cost of capital provision, the rental season (which I think will be no more than 12 weeks), comparative investment returns (cash in Bank vs thier property investment), ongoing costs such as rubbish collection etc etc. It seems most people consider simply owning property is an investment, end of. A savvy b@stard like you will be able to suck the marrow from people like this, and they wont even realize this

Well, I made posts about the forthcomming crunch way back in 2006 as I was of the opinion cresit was due for a tightening, however now the crunch is here it is abundantly clear the effects will be insufficient to cause anything other than a slight adjustment for a short period. You should recognise your reality tunnel is very confined and filters out all information other than the knee jerk sensationalisation typical of the pessimistic brain wiring pattern. Stop filtering, please just try it this weekend and see what you find.

What exactly will the extent of the crunch be? I say it will have a contained limited effect on severe sub prime cases only. Such people excluded from the market will have to rent though.......... Will your brain filter out this factor? I bet it will

Alice, that's all hot air. You have assumed the lower priced property sales falling away implies a crashing market. Classic statistical appartheid on your part.

Guys, when are you going to open your minds a little, you are not going to get a crash proper, this year. Interest rates are low, and demand for accomodation still high. Credit crunch affects only the minority that have fairly significant adverse credit history. All you have been hearing the last quater is a bit of back ground hiss, please for your own sanity encourage your brain receptors to view a wider band width and stop filtering out so much information.

Thankfully my wife can spell Kalkan , she does all the searching and so far we have been unable to get a slot in any of the villas tried. To be honest we are new to Kalkan so I should not have included it my list above . Caught red handed! My personal choice when it came to owning abroad would be in a small peacefull resort, not on a mega development, but from an investment point of view we felt a facilty laden all in one development was a better option in terms of extending the rental timeline. We know of too many people that have property in one off small developments and also on Spannish golf developments (those that claim lots of facilities but in fact do not offer much for a broad range of users), that fail to achieve a long rental season.

Soldintime I hear you on the 'loads of all - in golf developments', however, there will still be good commodities and not so good. All we can do are careful comparisons of end user likely experience. For my part I went for a development that includes a hospital (its now built and is pretty sizeable, not the usual small clinic that most developments have), the Meds largest marina (70% completed) and 11 onsite branded hotels (not the 1 or 2 most developments sing about). I notice a lot of posters use blanket logic, for example 'worldwide property crash' which to be frank is the type of rationale employed by George Bush with his 'axis of evil' which entirely misses the true complexity and complection of the reality on the ground. Furthermore it is in times of uncertainty that the smart investor takes positions and acts upon them, rather than waiting for the crowd to decide whats going on. Worrying about background noise and lifes petty ups and downs is a fools paradise. My villa wont be ready for at least 18 months anyway and Im quite confident the end users will come in thier droves regardeless of the unending drone of doomsayers that inhabit very narrow mental bandwidths and tend to be obsessed with the hear and now rather than the hear and tomorrow.

TOURISTIC PROPERTY RENTALS; Whilst I am aware of people who struggle to let thier touristic property I am also aware that we ALWAYS struggle to find a villa in the locations we have tried, namely, Menorca, Sardinia, Greece and Calcan in Turkey. This has been our experience over the last 10 years and even when we book well in advance all the properties we want have gone! In other words there is demand for the right property in the right location. EXTENDING THE SEASON; When we wanted to buy a villa abroad our biggest concern was not to have an investment that is un let outside the main summer season which is a common problem in many resorts. We felt our best chance of capturing off season rentals was to buy in a very large development which had masses of facilities to draw people off season, in the way that Centre Parks do. We also wanted a development with a beach a lots of onsite golf as well as good medical facilities on site. With everything in life there is a correct formula. Those that simply buy on 'just another' Spannish development may well find rentals will not be sufficient.

Why will prices fall more than 5% in 2008? Yes the money men have a tighter riegn on lending,however, the rates falling will simply tempt out more of those that do not fall into the sub prime bracket, perhaps LLs who will mop up rental demand from all those repossessed sub primers.

Eric I'm no fan of and have never voted Labour, but your assertions that "he has'nt a clue", implies you do have a clue and that if he only developed the same reality tunnel you exist within, all would be well. Is that not a trifle arrogant from a Man who on this very website in 2004 told us all the crash is DEFINITELY here in bigbold red? Eric, calm down and try and take in reality, not your narrow tunnel that exludes so much information. Will Banks makes large losses? Yes Have they made huge profits in the last decade? Yes Will thier losses be ring fenced and settled? Yes Will rates fall? Yes Has underlying demand for shelter diminished in the UK? No Eric, 1929s will come along at most once per century for any given nation. The next one will take you by surpice, and this aint it, nor will it have much to do with peak fuel, thats obvious to anyone.

House price crashes 'proper' will only come along once or twice per century. This will not be a proper crash, about 5% off at best accross the country. As soon as rates fall another time or two the flood gates will open. WHY: 1) Because people would rather own (yes with a Bank) than be at the beheast of a landlord 2) Because from an investment point of view the majority will fell there are no accessible comfortable alternatives.

Injin So you dont want me / the state to threaten you if you shade me out with tall conifers You want me to pay you And if I cant pay becuase Im an old lady? And if I do pay you but that means my kids have less resources to exist with as a consequence - THEY GET HURT, ERGO THREATENED BY YOU Is that all you have for me?

Your advocating a society where we can all indulge whatever desire we wish to fulfill. That would work if we all thought exactly the same way but we never will. You might like growing tall trees as you need some shade. I may want to grow veg and be hindered by your shade. In even a small community such differences will visit in there thousand. In the end there has to be a negative consequence for those that impinge upon the well being of the community at large. You might want to drive at 100mph through the town (yes some people will do this if allowed) yet I might want to drive at 10mph. You may want to kill your livestock and make pies without hygeinic imperitives in place so I will suffer from ill health. NONE OF US WANT TO THREATEN YOU, BUT IN THE END WE WILL NEVER ALL AGREE TO LIVE OUR LIVES EXACTLY THE SAME WAY, THERE MUST BE ENFORCABLE RULES.

Can I nominate this for best post 2008, excellent. Injin, please study this closely, see how the poster considers the full picture in an objective rigourous manner. Thats your aim my freind.

You need to think wider. What about you dont want to sell your London garden in 1849 but thats the only place suitable for the sewage system that would vastly reduce the incidence of cholera in the wider communtiy? Your whole concept falls at first contact with the real world, just as all unnatural created non organic systems do.

So you want to do away with democracy and the capitalist system, without knowing exactly what will replace it? Ok lets go along with your 'trade of some kind'; You want a road built accross Bodmin moor but I object and no amount of trade will alter my mind and the same applies to the major sewer works that have to be cited within your childs school grounds, to which you will not agree no matter what trade incentives come your way (assuming there are some freely available from other people). So now what do you do? Remember everyone will have thier own indivdual needs, wants and desires - how will you rationalise them all without upsetting someone with some theft? (example the sewer has to go through your garden as its the only suitable place due to the gradient)?

Romans. Then we took to them in favour of dirt tracks.