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I know some very smart people who are looking at BTL as a way to store value in the fear of inflation. Admittedly I don't think they are looking to borrow much, certainly no more then 50% mortgages, but it is a worrying trend. The discussion over beers yesterday was between precious metals and property ........ BTL as a bearish investment?

I think the point is that the banks will be fine. 45 yr old BTL'r has £70k mortagage on own house currently worth £350k. Three BTL flats at 90% mortgages. If he loses his job and cant afford to subsidise his tenants any more at the moment he can sell the flats and clear the loan. If house prices fall by 30% it will be his family home which is sold to pay the debt.

As you say, standards aren't necessarily slipping. Even the established universities are letting in more students, and there are far more universities. Thus many graduates from the established redbricks wouldn't have got into the same place 25 years earlier, and many of the graduates of new universities would have left school at 16 a generation earlier - in some cases no less well educated. The difficulty both employers and graduates face is the lack of comparability between degree grades between institutions. Many graduates think they are high flyers with a 2.1, but unless it was gained at a top university grad scheme recruiters aren't interested. Personally, I've met and interviewed enough graduates to have lost any faith in the system - I look at 'A' level grades - forget the degree.

RB, I'm aware that many restaurants pay foreign workers under the table (I'm an accountant - restaurants are not my sector but I know people who do cover these businesses). I've heard it would be almost impossible for a normal restaurant to exist in most of SE England without paying cash. My interest in the subject is this - does the governement turn an official blind eye? Do VAT inspections (which are pretty common in the sector) never pick up on cash not recorded as sales?

Perhaps he works for the Labour party and has just misunderstood what was happening.

Exactly, and I'm amazed no-one else has pointed this out. Its not the just loss of a job, a period of sickness can really knock most peoples finances backwards. If there is a house price crash job insecurity will be a huge issue for most people. Why take on the additional stress of a mortgage just to move round the corner?

Why didn't you teach your children to speak German?

D23, I thought I was the only person on this site who had had crap experiences renting. Sorry to hear your problems but glad its not just me.

If it dries up London will be really screwed. I still object to the 'largest economy' ******** as it ignores the effect of population and seems to be used by people who overestimate Britains position in the world.

It truly amazes me how the media and the public buy this '5th biggest economy' bull. If we do have the 5th biggest economy its by virtue of having a larger population that many more competitive countries (think NL, Norway, Switzerland), and an overvalued currency. We having no-where near the 'a' list in standard of living terms by any criteria you can apply.

They always claim that. Dont be fooled. NL represents the comfortable middle class who don't see how benefits are abused, or how unfair it is to the hardworking neighbours of the claimants.

Amazing how such a small rise can have such an impact.

Homeless, Great post. How is Scotland treating you?

Are you Billy Shears?

As opposed to £1500 for one person in many places now...

I thought that Property Guru on SP was the original one - banned on here. CIUW used to post as Puberty Guru.

Anyone else noticed that Europa has failed to contribute any more to this thread?

Try Tower Hamlets street cleansing department (outsourced a few years ago but recently enough that pay rates couldn't be cut). I worked out that a street cleaner earns about £20k pa plus opportunities for overtime and nightshift work if they want to earn more. The maintenance staff at most London boroughs have a basic of about £18k but lots of add ons to increase the total for little effort.

London or outside? I'll try to get hold of a copy of the latest local govt pay scales, but I know a number of rates for blue collar work anyway.

5 years experienced and qualifications required. Amazing. You can see why children don't try at school. An unskilled job with the local council will pay far more than that with no stress, great pension and job security.

I thought that Egg made that comment in relation to his thoughts in 1997 - they should have taken their chance earlier...

Which area of journalism do you work in? In much of the country the majority of people work for under £8 per hour. Can I move to your district, where everyone likes the EU and never has to meet an average earner let alone a poor person?

So, if the high school teacher takes a minimum wage job in London where overtime is available, or gets a second job they will take home approx £1000 per month, share a room - say £250 for room and bills, £200 a month for food and transport - they can easily save £500 per month. For all its a hard life the value of the savings look pretty attractive.

To add to the questions above, how much would a typical Romanian earn, and how much disposable income would they have after taxes and accomodation costs whilst living in Romania?

An interesting question - if the employment market was open to Romanians across Europe how many do you think would leave? Could the local economy be distorted by the young leaving to work abroad and saving relatively large amounts by local standards, or would they return with the capital to start businesses and prosper?