Where Are All The Police State Threads?

[Nickolarge]

A short while ago this forum was full of "Police State" threads because an MP got arrested and questioned for a short while.

Today a jury finds that the police shot an innocent man without warning and nobody comments.

No comments on the fact that just before this shooting happened the police were asking for immunity from prosecution for their "gunmen".

No comments of the fact that the Coroner tried his hardest to back the jury into a corner.

No comments on the fact that the jury rejected the coppers claims they shouted a warning. Not pointing any fingers but I thought it was illegal to lie in court.

I know it's off topic but that never stopped you with the Damian Green thing.

[Injin]

A short while ago this forum was full of "Police State" threads because an MP got arrested and questioned for a short while.

Today a jury finds that the police shot an innocent man without warning and nobody comments.

No comments on the fact that just before this shooting happened the police were asking for immunity from prosecution for their "gunmen".

No comments of the fact that the Coroner tried his hardest to back the jury into a corner.

No comments on the fact that the jury rejected the coppers claims they shouted a warning. Not pointing any fingers but I thought it was illegal to lie in court.

I know it's off topic but that never stopped you with the Damian Green thing.

We already knew, it's not news.

That the official whitewash is in hardly registers.

[impatient_mug]

Sorry, we're all too busy figuring out which disease we should attack foreigners with next to worry about such trifling matters

[wonderpup]

Today a jury finds that the police shot an innocent man without warning and nobody comments.

Mmm- this is looking sinister, posters just 'disappearing' like that. I'm begining to wonder if the powers that be are monitoring this site and...hang on, someone's at the door....

[XswampyX]

Knock Knock!

[bootfair]

The jury should have refused to come to a verdict if they felt they were being pushed into a corner with the "no unlawful killing" ruling.

A short while ago this forum was full of "Police State" threads because an MP got arrested and questioned for a short while.

Today a jury finds that the police shot an innocent man without warning and nobody comments.

No comments on the fact that just before this shooting happened the police were asking for immunity from prosecution for their "gunmen".

No comments of the fact that the Coroner tried his hardest to back the jury into a corner.

No comments on the fact that the jury rejected the coppers claims they shouted a warning. Not pointing any fingers but I thought it was illegal to lie in court.

I know it's off topic but that never stopped you with the Damian Green thing.

Edited December 13, 2008 by bootfair

[Guest vicmac64]

Actually I agree with you - what happened to this foreign citizen was criminal.

[deflation]

At the time a great deal was made about the fact that he had outstayed his visa date and was therefore an illegal immigrant. Unless it is now poor taste or otherwise, this is no longer mentioned.

Having said that, it was a total shambles the way he was killed on a train when he was tailed for ages without positive id or a challenge being made. A prosecution for 'corporate manslaughter' due to negligence, the crime that was created for instances similar to this, should be made against the police.

[Guest barebear]

At the time a great deal was made about the fact that he had outstayed his visa date and was therefore an illegal immigrant. Unless it is now poor taste or otherwise, this is no longer mentioned.

Having said that, it was a total shambles the way he was killed on a train when he was tailed for ages without positive id or a challenge being made. A prosecution for 'corporate manslaughter' due to negligence, the crime that was created for instances similar to this, should be made against the police.

The witnesses said the police appeared to be in total panic.

I wonder why the jury was only given 2 choices and that they couldnt rule on illegal killing ?

There is no conspiracy though ,just a bunch of coppers that got it badly wrong.

Think how bazaar it is,you say goodbye to someone in the morning later he's shot dead by police.

RIP Jean Charles

Edited December 13, 2008 by barebear

[Cogs]

The DeMenezes case strikes me as one of those freak occurrences.

I don't believe it is typical of how the police behave. I think it is unlikely we will be gunned down by the cops in that kind of circumstance.

However, I think the Mark Camm case raises far more questions and is being barely discussed anywhere.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/pr181108_wyorkshire.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...cell-drunk.html

[Guest KingCharles1st]

I was thinking about this only last night- obviously it is soooo blatantly unlawful the restriction of sentencing is a crime in itself. Yet my thoughts were, well if these armed police are so ******ing good, so ******ing well trained, why did they shoot the wrong bloke, and effectively shoot him dead 8 times? Its suck a crock

[tricksters]

The witnesses said the police appeared to be in total panic.

I wonder why the jury was only given 2 choices and that they couldnt rule on illegal killing ?

There is no conspiracy though ,just a bunch of coppers that got it badly wrong.

Think how bazaar it is,you say goodbye to someone in the morning later he's shot dead by police.

RIP Jean Charles

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am surprised that so little has been made of the seven bullets pumped into the head of Jean Charles. One or seven, he is just as dead, but seven!! FFS. Chilling. Blood's up. Enjoying having a licence to kill? They thought he was a terrorist....thought, not knew. It stinks to high Heaven.

[Guest barebear]

The DeMenezes case strikes me as one of those freak occurrences.

I don't believe it is typical of how the police behave. I think it is unlikely we will be gunned down by the cops in that kind of circumstance.

However, I think the Mark Camm case raises far more questions and is being barely discussed anywhere.

http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/news/pr181108_wyorkshire.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...cell-drunk.html

I was once arrested for being drunk and disordly but I hadnt even had one drink,I asked for a breathaliser so I could prove I was so sober but I was told they can only breathalise you if your driving.

So I asked how could they prove if I was drunk or not,they subsequently dropped it but I had spent 5 hours in a cell. That to me is wrongful arrest and I made a complaint,I was subsequently charged with threatening and abusive behavior to a traffic warden.

I called him a c unt for ticketing someones car when it had broke down and he had seen it break down.

In court I was found guilty and fined a fiver even though the judge acknowledged the traffic warden had also sworn at me !!

[King Stromba]

And mow they all have tasers too. Oh joy.

[SarahBell]

The without warnings bit is interesting.

We were watching one of the reality cop shows and they break in and storm into this house shouting.

They migt have been shouting police but the noise was too confused to make it out. They could have been anyone. Until you're shown some id they are just anyone.

Imagine on a tube station how much noise there is, add in people chatting, tubes on other tracks moving about, shouting wouldn't be clear.

I agree in a way. If he'd been british there'd be a lot more fuss - but he wasn't.

Would tasering someone stop them pressing a button to explode a bomb? Is a shot to head the only way to stop a suicide bomber? Ooo is Gordon wearnig a rucksack?

[Guest KingCharles1st]

The without warnings bit is interesting.

We were watching one of the reality cop shows and they break in and storm into this house shouting.

They migt have been shouting police but the noise was too confused to make it out. They could have been anyone. Until you're shown some id they are just anyone.

Imagine on a tube station how much noise there is, add in people chatting, tubes on other tracks moving about, shouting wouldn't be clear.

I agree in a way. If he'd been british there'd be a lot more fuss - but he wasn't.

Would tasering someone stop them pressing a button to explode a bomb? Is a shot to head the only way to stop a suicide bomber? Ooo is Gordon wearnig a rucksack?

Its a good thing these particular coppers were out of the loop before the Damien green arrest

[Guest barebear]

The without warnings bit is interesting.

We were watching one of the reality cop shows and they break in and storm into this house shouting.

They migt have been shouting police but the noise was too confused to make it out. They could have been anyone. Until you're shown some id they are just anyone.

Imagine on a tube station how much noise there is, add in people chatting, tubes on other tracks moving about, shouting wouldn't be clear.

I agree in a way. If he'd been british there'd be a lot more fuss - but he wasn't.

Would tasering someone stop them pressing a button to explode a bomb? Is a shot to head the only way to stop a suicide bomber? Ooo is Gordon wearnig a rucksack?

Thats the point isnt it,thats where the training falls down,how could they possibly shout a warning to someone they think will detonate a back pack or concealed bomb. The training tells them that because you only have a split second to stop them detonating, a shot through the head is the only way of doing it. No time for mandatory warnings.

How else could you possibly do it ?? If he had of been a suicide bomber with a live bomb concealed they would have been hero's

It was a sad culmination of events.

Edited December 13, 2008 by barebear

[gavp]

The incompetence of the police was staggering and frankly quite scary...but...there's no suggestion that Menezes was targeted for leaking Home Office information or embarrassing the government or anything like that. This was a police **** up, not evidence of a 'police state'.

Edited December 13, 2008 by gavp

[Guest barebear]

The other thing as well is I think the reason for the multi shots is because just one or 2 shots may not make the brain completely dead,it may still be capable of causing the muscles to twitch.

People have been shot in the head and survived.

[Guest KingCharles1st]

The other thing as well is I think the reason for the multi shots is because just one or 2 shots may not make the brain completely dead,it may still be capable of causing the muscles to twitch.

People have been shot in the head and survived.

I wonder how many times Gordon Brown would have to be shot in the head before he stops lurching menacing forward towards the economy...?

[Guest barebear]

I wonder how many times Gordon Brown would have to be shot in the head before he stops lurching menacing forward towards the economy...?

A zombie prime minister that no one can kill attempting another economy destroying policie, imagine PMQ's, the speaker ''ORDER ,ORDER OR OR OR ORDER " as shots are fired from the opposition seats.

[dr ray]

By the time you have decided to shoot someone in the head you have already decided to kill them so the only reason not to shoot him more than once is the cost of ammo.

The police in pursuit seemed to have concocted a story to cover themselves but in truth they did what they had been sent to do by their bosses. The problem arose when the person who was meant to be watching the real terrorist flat went off for a piss and was not replaced so that when the Brazilian came out of the building they weren't sure if it was the terrorist. The rest was an almost ineviable consequence of the initial error made worse by cover up, defamation and attempts by politicians and senior police to distance themselves from responsibility.

[The Ponz]

Thats the point isnt it,thats where the training falls down,how could they possibly shout a warning to someone they think will detonate a back pack or concealed bomb. The training tells them that because you only have a split second to stop them detonating, a shot through the head is the only way of doing it. No time for mandatory warnings.

How else could you possibly do it ?? If he had of been a suicide bomber with a live bomb concealed they would have been hero's

It was a sad culmination of events.

JCdM was wearing a thin denim jacket and not carrying anything that could have been a bomb. At least some of the senior offices in the control room that day were aware of that fact...

Officer admits deleting part of record of events before tube shooting

I think people can also be pretty sure that the driver of the train wasn't carrying a bomb, yet he still had a gun jammed in his face...

“Our members and all LUL staff have shown immense courage and commitment through the awful events of the last two weeks, but their concerns at the way yesterday"s alert was handled are serious and there are many other issues that remain to be resolved.

“Their concerns will have been fuelled by the revelation that an innocent Tube driver today found himself with a police gun at his head during the incident in Stockwell station in which a suspect was shot dead.

Of course, everyone would be a lot clearer about what happened that day if the station/ train CCTV cameras were working. Or maybe they were...

Staff say Stockwell Tube shooting was caught on camera

Dead man’s family accuse police over riddle of CCTV tapes which officers said were blank

with all the uncertainty that accompanies this case and an open coroner's verdict I'm surprised that so many people have been able to form an opinion about what happened that day

I agree with the OP. This difference in public response between the Green and the De Menezes outrages speaks volumes and does not bode well for the future

[Newy]

Thats the point isnt it,thats where the training falls down,how could they possibly shout a warning to someone they think will detonate a back pack or concealed bomb. The training tells them that because you only have a split second to stop them detonating, a shot through the head is the only way of doing it. No time for mandatory warnings.

How else could you possibly do it ?? If he had of been a suicide bomber with a live bomb concealed they would have been hero's

It was a sad culmination of events.

It's even more stupid when you think that they could use dead man switches, where you hold down the button to arm the device and then it explodes when you let go. Bullet through the head would make you let go i think.

[tinker]

By the time you have decided to shoot someone in the head you have already decided to kill them so the only reason not to shoot him more than once is the cost of ammo.

The police in pursuit seemed to have concocted a story to cover themselves but in truth they did what they had been sent to do by their bosses. The problem arose when the person who was meant to be watching the real terrorist flat went off for a piss and was not replaced so that when the Brazilian came out of the building they weren't sure if it was the terrorist. The rest was an almost enviable consequence of the initial error made worse by cover up, defamation and attempts by politicians and senior police to distance themselves from responsibility.

There is a Titanic quality about such events.

Arrogance, vanity, unwarranted risk (it doesn't matter/no one will find out), leading to... tragedy, innocent victims, the cover up, the squirming, the deceit... worse then follows.

Flawed human nature?