Redundancy - Help Please !

[jond240]

I am after some advice from you good folk!

I along with all of my work colleagues (less than 20, small family firm) have been give 4 weeks notice for redundancy on Friday 28th of November, We still have not been given any written notice to this effect only a one to one meeting with my MD which he said he was officaly give me notice.

My questions are these,

I have not been with the company for more than 2 years so I know that I am not entietled to redundcy money, are they obliged to pay me full pay at the end of the month ( rumors that they can not afford to pay full amount!)

They have sent some people on garding leave but have not mentioned it to me.

Now that they have given me notice (not in writting though) can I leave early and still get full pay until the end of the month? the reason being is that they are really starting to take the pee with all of us, trying to get us to work unsocial hours with not extra pay (which is in hour contracts of emplyoment) and finish certian work just to get them out of a hole.

So really seeing that they have not followed redundancy proceduress could I request garding leave to look for work and so forth and get paid to the end of the month?

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

[jond240]

I am after some advice from you good folk!

I along with all of my work colleagues (less than 20, small family firm) have been give 4 weeks notice for redundancy on Friday 28th of November, We still have not been given any written notice to this effect only a one to one meeting with my MD which he said he was officaly give me notice.

My questions are these,

I have not been with the company for more than 2 years so I know that I am not entietled to redundcy money, are they obliged to pay me full pay at the end of the month ( rumors that they can not afford to pay full amount!)

They have sent some people on garding leave but have not mentioned it to me.

Now that they have given me notice (not in writting though) can I leave early and still get full pay until the end of the month? the reason being is that they are really starting to take the pee with all of us, trying to get us to work unsocial hours with not extra pay (which is in hour contracts of emplyoment) and finish certian work just to get them out of a hole.

So really seeing that they have not followed redundancy proceduress could I request garding leave to look for work and so forth and get paid to the end of the month?

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

[antwacky]

I am after some advice from you good folk!

I along with all of my work colleagues (less than 20, small family firm) have been give 4 weeks notice for redundancy on Friday 28th of November, We still have not been given any written notice to this effect only a one to one meeting with my MD which he said he was officaly give me notice.

My questions are these,

I have not been with the company for more than 2 years so I know that I am not entietled to redundcy money, are they obliged to pay me full pay at the end of the month ( rumors that they can not afford to pay full amount!)

They have sent some people on garding leave but have not mentioned it to me.

Now that they have given me notice (not in writting though) can I leave early and still get full pay until the end of the month? the reason being is that they are really starting to take the pee with all of us, trying to get us to work unsocial hours with not extra pay (which is in hour contracts of emplyoment) and finish certian work just to get them out of a hole.

So really seeing that they have not followed redundancy proceduress could I request garding leave to look for work and so forth and get paid to the end of the month?

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

Try the CAB. They're usually helpful and they have information on the law and acts of parliament.

[Bubble&Squeak]

I am after some advice from you good folk!

I along with all of my work colleagues (less than 20, small family firm) have been give 4 weeks notice for redundancy on Friday 28th of November, We still have not been given any written notice to this effect only a one to one meeting with my MD which he said he was officaly give me notice.

My questions are these,

I have not been with the company for more than 2 years so I know that I am not entietled to redundcy money, are they obliged to pay me full pay at the end of the month ( rumors that they can not afford to pay full amount!)

They have sent some people on garding leave but have not mentioned it to me.

Now that they have given me notice (not in writting though) can I leave early and still get full pay until the end of the month? the reason being is that they are really starting to take the pee with all of us, trying to get us to work unsocial hours with not extra pay (which is in hour contracts of emplyoment) and finish certian work just to get them out of a hole.

So really seeing that they have not followed redundancy proceduress could I request garding leave to look for work and so forth and get paid to the end of the month?

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

Yes, definitely CAB for you, also sometimes insurance policies have legal advice chucked in, I have on my contents insurance, you might want to check... either way you need good legal advice

[Caribbean Beauty]

If all 20 employees have been given notice then it is clear that the firm is insolvent and going bust. Hence the cavalier attitude of the MD/owner - what does he care if anyone subsequently brings an Employment Tribunal claim against him for not following procedures etc, you cannot get blood out of a stone.

My advice is NOT to jump ship but stay on until the very end (another couple of weeks, or, you may even get locked out one day very soon) and then - if you do not get final salaries due - submit a claim to the receivers who will liquidate assets. Staff usually get the first of any cash left or cash generated after asset sales, albeit sometimes many months later.

There seems little point in seeking gardeing leave to try to find work over christmas and in this climate, UNLESS you happen to be working in a traning school for Santa Claus actors.

[acceleratorhams]

Hi, these are the answers to your questions:Good luck

Q] Are they obliged to pay me full pay at the end of the month ( rumors that they can not afford to pay full amount!)

A] Yes, but if they run out of money you may not get it!

Q]They have sent some people on gardening leave but have not mentioned it to me.

A] They are not obliged to put you on gardening leave

Q] When on notice can I leave early and still get full pay until the end of the month?

A] No, you have to work your notice

Q] Could I request gardening leave to look for work and so forth and get paid to the end of the month?

A] No, you should be allowed reasonable time off on full pay for job-hunting or to arrange training. In practice this is never more than 2 days with a small employer.

Check out

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/actio...6974&r.s=sc

or www.acas.org

or on the directgov website

or my website www.employee-problem-page.com

Good luck

[prognosis]

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

No redundancy is due beyond the 4 weeks notice. If the company cannot afford to pay you the notice you are due then you can put a claim in for the balance which is the shortfall which is why you pay your contributions.

You must ascertain as quickly as possible what they can afford to pay and what date that will mean that you are officially without income. You are not duty bound to work beyond that point less any holidays due. You must mitigate the losses for both yourself and the government. For example if you worked for two weeks and then found a new job immediately following on from existing employment you are quids in . On the other hand if you only receive two weeks pay then you will be due two weeks redundancy money at the government rate.

If it is insolvency (given all 24 have been called in ) they must have appointed an administrator who will advise you on how to claim and give you the correct forms.

In the meantime you should be granted time off for interviews to seek employment elsewhere.

My sympathy is with you as it is a bummer of time as realistically who would want to employ you before Jan 4th 2009 if the company only pay you out a week.

Gardening leave would suggest though that the company intends to carry on trading or at least sell it's assets and anybody who has intellectual knowledge may have been out on gardening leave to protect the saleable assets.

I don't think you know the full position yet . Maybe you'll be kept on in another capacity. I suspect those on gardening leave would be senior management and the family owners are now going to take more of a hands on approach to the business after restructuring? just guessing

Good luck.

[Caribbean Beauty]

The previous posters reminded me of my rudeness - I forgot to express my sympathies at this time.

On a selfish note, for the benefit of us economy watchers, would you mind telling us what line of business the firm was in and how it has unravelled? If you feel up to sharing that is.

[Compounded]

Redundancy pay rules should not be difficult to find on the web IIRC they are not generous and I guess your employer could not be generous even if they wanted to.

Be assured you will not be alone, this is going to happen to millions of people, the mother of all credit bubbles has enevitably resulted in the mother of all crashes.

[renterbob]

I am after some advice from you good folk!

I along with all of my work colleagues (less than 20, small family firm) have been give 4 weeks notice for redundancy on Friday 28th of November, We still have not been given any written notice to this effect only a one to one meeting with my MD which he said he was officaly give me notice.

My questions are these,

I have not been with the company for more than 2 years so I know that I am not entietled to redundcy money, are they obliged to pay me full pay at the end of the month ( rumors that they can not afford to pay full amount!)

They have sent some people on garding leave but have not mentioned it to me.

Now that they have given me notice (not in writting though) can I leave early and still get full pay until the end of the month? the reason being is that they are really starting to take the pee with all of us, trying to get us to work unsocial hours with not extra pay (which is in hour contracts of emplyoment) and finish certian work just to get them out of a hole.

So really seeing that they have not followed redundancy proceduress could I request garding leave to look for work and so forth and get paid to the end of the month?

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

Crikey jond, what a bloody nightmare you must be having right now.

I know this is a bit naughty, but as your employer is as caring as a whore in a nunnery can you nick a few goodies to see you well for the xmas season?

If you know you won't get much if they go bust...well, it may not be the best of advice, but I reckon you should shaft them before they shaft you.

Goodluck and I hope you get back to work soon.

[ScaredEitherWay]

The people here are brilliant too for these questions: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=141

If you're being made redundant they should allow you time off to attend interviews - not sure if that's paid or not, probably not.

As the others have said, they will owe you salary up to the last working day, but if they don't actually have the money then you won't get it. There is a special Govt fund to cover people who aren't actually paid, but it can take up to 2 months to claim it. Also, they will owe you for holiday you've not taken ... so on the basis you won't be getting paid, make sure you book all due annual leave.

Good luck!

[jond240]

The previous posters reminded me of my rudeness - I forgot to express my sympathies at this time.

On a selfish note, for the benefit of us economy watchers, would you mind telling us what line of business the firm was in and how it has unravelled? If you feel up to sharing that is.

Thank you all for you quick advice , This website is great !!

The company is in the Data and Fibre optic installation and IT business, we have some large clients including the MOD and have won some small jobs which the customer belives that will carry out in the new year.

The MD has already said that he intends to keep trading in January even if it is just him in a consultancy roll, The work the company has won for next year is not enough to keep everybody on and he intends to let everybody go and then ask some of us if we wish to work on an adhoc basis like a contractor to carry out this work and anything else in the future.

The reason that the company is in trouble is simple, I found out only last week that we have been making a loss on about 65% of the work we have been wining over the last 12 months ( I was so angry when I found this out!) and this is due to many reasons but mainly poor managment and estimating. The company has been around since the 1980's and has had some good investors. Now that nearly all the investors have pulled out there is now more money to keep covering up the glaring problems in our business model.

Even in this late stage of the game, simple mistakes are being made (by the bosses son!!) which is costing the company money and ultimatly our jobs!

The credit crunch has only brought forwared what was going to happen at some stage I guess!

The problem I have now is that I am being asked to work well outside of my normal working conditions and this is basicly to complete as much work as possible before we get the boot! I have to add that the work we are doing is loss making as well but they do not want and cannot let the customers down.

I am in the lucky position that my wife earns good money so we can survive on her salary, also that we have no debt (except the house) and we also have savings so we are not to bad off at the moment. I have had alot of intreast in my CV on line and have been put forward for some positions so we will wait and see.

I am going to become a house husband in the mean time and get to spend time with my 18 month old daughter. Happy days

[eightiesgirly]

I am after some advice from you good folk!

Advice would be great as the stress is now starting to effect me and my famliy and I feel between a rock and a hard place.

I am sorry to hear about your job situation. I can't offer any advice as I am not well up on these things. I can tell you however that I have lived through two bad economic downturns, both were difficult. I got through them both and I'm still here.

Try not to get too stressed about it. You will get through this. I'm not saying it will be easy, but many of us on here have been through tough times and still kept going. Keep your chin up. Try not to let the b4stards get you down. Wishing you luck.

[sortofsilver]

Firstly you will 100% have to work the notice to get paid for it. UNLESS they (the company or director) tell you that you do not have to work the notice but thats up to them and they still have to pay you.

Second find out if the company is shutting down/going out of business. The reason for this is they cannot make people redundant without a consultation period, i know this because my brother in law is making 10 people redundant and was told by his advisor's that this is crucial. I do not know the punishment for no consultation period but i think you could take them to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal should the business remain open. Check with ACAS http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

Good Luck! I hope things look up for you in the new year mate.

P.S It is the job that becomes redundent not the person. You going anyway ask them to prove that you job is no longer going to be their. If they are going to ask certain indivduals back then i am sure that you have first refusal if your job comes back again. If this is not the case they could make you redundant one day then hire someone cheaper the following day which would be wrong.

[porca misèria]

The problem I have now is that I am being asked to work well outside of my normal working conditions and this is basicly to complete as much work as possible before we get the boot! I have to add that the work we are doing is loss making as well but they do not want and cannot let the customers down.

Very familiar situation: an evil employer, but decent clients, and you feel you owe it to the latter to do a much better job than the former deserve, or pay for.

Since you're all getting laid off, presumably there'd be nothing unethical in your exploring opportunities to contract directly for whatever clients you're on good terms with.

[Guest adp]

Very familiar situation: an evil employer, but decent clients, and you feel you owe it to the latter to do a much better job than the former deserve, or pay for.

Since you're all getting laid off, presumably there'd be nothing unethical in your exploring opportunities to contract directly for whatever clients you're on good terms with.

+1

I would also add, having been there myself several times, you do not owe them manic completion hours outside of your normal working hours, particularly as there is little guarantee you will even be covered for the basic hours. I would be frank with them about this. If they are desperate, they will offer you extra and early cash to complete it. If you say nothing, they are likely to shaft you. The worst that can happen is they fire you early which will mean you are due your money earlier and are, therefore, more likely to get it. IMO though, if they intend to continue trading, you are in a stronger position to get your final pay at least. Really sux to have this happen at this time of year. Good luck with it. Remember they are looking out for themselves so you must look out for your best interests. Loyalty and work ethic doesn't enter into it in this situation.

[jond240]

I would like to say thank you to all that have replied, My wife and I are touched by the kind words and also the great advice.

Its so sad seeing the news and all these people losing their jobs at this time of year, I am in a lucky postition with my wife earning good money and we also have savings and no debt except the house, but I really feel for others who are not in such a good position.

I am in my mid 30's so was in my last years at school when the last recession hit so have not had to go through this before, its such a strange feeling that I have worked ever since leaving school at 16 , spent 10 years in the Navy serving queen and country and all that but I know if I have to claim off the state (which I am not looking forward to if this happens!) I will get sod all help as my wife earns to much.

I think its sad that because we have been sensible and have saved money we are now looking to move some of our savings to our parents in order that we could actulay claim off the state with out having to use all our savings and be in debt before they will step in and help.

So yet again the people that have not spent beyond thier means and saved will get punished !!

Rant over.

[Guest skullingtonjoe]

I would like to say thank you to all that have replied, My wife and I are touched by the kind words and also the great advice.

Its so sad seeing the news and all these people losing their jobs at this time of year, I am in a lucky postition with my wife earning good money and we also have savings and no debt except the house, but I really feel for others who are not in such a good position.

I am in my mid 30's so was in my last years at school when the last recession hit so have not had to go through this before, its such a strange feeling that I have worked ever since leaving school at 16 , spent 10 years in the Navy serving queen and country and all that but I know if I have to claim off the state (which I am not looking forward to if this happens!) I will get sod all help as my wife earns to much.

I think its sad that because we have been sensible and have saved money we are now looking to move some of our savings to our parents in order that we could actulay claim off the state with out having to use all our savings and be in debt before they will step in and help.

So yet again the people that have not spent beyond thier means and saved will get punished !!

Rant over.

Agreed on being a saver. It seems that being sensible these days is seen as something terribly bad.

(Turning the clock way back in my memory) Hamlet said to Queen Gertrude: `Forgive me this my virtue; For in the fatness of these pursy times virtue itself of vice must pardon beg` Some things never change - the party goes on and it`s only in the cold light of dawn that the full extent of the orgy is revealed

Anyway, I`m sure things will pan out for the best for you, even though it doesn`t seem like it at the moment. Also: claim back what you put in - if you have to `shift around` some of your savings to claim then do it. If the government can chuck billions of pounds into a void then you`re hardly committing the crime of the century IMHO.

Best wishes and good luck to you and family.