Let's Get 'em!

[Time to raise the rents.]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Housing+Market

Get your news stories here. Seems a bunch of fairly bullish news just came out to me & since you guys love poking holes in them, I thought I'd let you have this thread to work with!

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

Cheers TTRTR

I love this one.

http://www.cml.org.uk/servlet/dycon/zt-cml...eases_2005_0203

[Time to raise the rents.]

This is a great story:

Mortgage Brokers Busier

http://www.findaproperty.com/story.aspx?storyid=6854

[Time to raise the rents.]

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/busines...d397716?source=

UK kicks off the year on upbeat note

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

Mortgage Brokers Busier

Strong Remortgaging

Remortgages remain the most important category of home loan and now represent 56 per cent of the total, up from just over 50 per cent 12 months ago, while other types of mortgage (for clients buying properties) have declined slightly over the same period.

Good for the lenders but a disaster in the making for the borrowers.

[Guest wrongmove]

This is a great story:

Mortgage Brokers Busier

http://www.findaproperty.com/story.aspx?storyid=6854

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh good, its a "lenders doing well day so HPs will rise" day from TTRTR !

Makes a nice change from "economy doing crap so IRs will fall" day

I am the only one to see denial at work here ?

To all the landlords out there. At what level of IRs would you decide that non-property investment would be a viable option ?

[CrashIsUnderWay]

TFTTFTRFTFTF's position, as clearly explained by him in a previous thread, is that he began buying properties in the 90's, when houses were 'seriously undervalued'. He now feels that this 'undervaluation' is gone, and property is now 'fairly valued'.

He can't explain WHY he feels this, except it makes him feel ... better.

With house prices now at over double their traditional relationship to earnings, any rational person would assume that they are now OVER valued.

Either that or they have 'traditionally' been 'under valued' for the last 2000 years, which is, of course a complete and utter nonsense. Like most of his fantasy posts, actually. It's crashing, and there aint a blind thing any of us could do to stop it even if we wanted to.

His bizarre worldview no doubt comes of eating too much raw herring and lunatic gambler over-gearing using cheap credit.

Enjoy the life of a bankrupt, ttftfttttftf, it's coming your way fast.

[Time to raise the rents.]

TFTTFTRFTFTF's position, as clearly explained by him in a previous thread, is that he began buying properties in the 90's, when houses were 'seriously undervalued'. He now feels that this 'undervaluation' is gone, and property is now 'fairly valued'.

He can't explain WHY he feels this, except it makes him feel ... better.

With house prices now at over double their traditional relationship to earnings, any rational person would assume that they are now OVER valued.

Either that or they have 'traditionally' been 'under valued' for the last 2000 years, which is, of course a complete and utter nonsense. Like most of his fantasy posts, actually. It's crashing, and there aint a blind thing any of us could do to stop it even if we wanted to.

His bizarre worldview no doubt comes of eating too much raw herring and lunatic gambler over-gearing using cheap credit.

Enjoy the life of a bankrupt, ttftfttttftf, it's coming your way fast.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harsh words there newbie. Here's a raw formula for why I feel property is fairly valued, just for you as it seems so important that I should have to explain myself to every new poster that comes along.

The places that I rent out yield about 6.1%. I can borrow money for 5.5% on a BTL mortgage & the yield therefore pays both my mortgages (just over 60% gearing) and leaves me about a 7% return (off the top of my head) on my capital in my properties. My fellow citizens can also borrow money at approximately the same rate. My feeling therefore is that at that yield & that IR, the valuation is approximately correct.

If IR's rise further, I will expect rents to rise to cover the higher IR & for example I may then yield 7% while paying say 6.5% on the mortgages just as an example.

If, for further clarification, rents weren't able to rise (say we were having a recession & tenants were moving back in with their parents) and IR's kept rising, I'd be concerned about valuations.

But I don't see that happening. What I do see happening is rents rising and maybe a few vendors sweating in a quieter market.

I also believe that if someone bought themselves a fancy new build and is renting it at a 4% yield (as an example) that they OVERPAID for their property and may suffer for it in the future.

So there you have it, just for you.

Let me know how the life of a bankrupt feels as I guess you're only 1 pay packet away from bankruptcy at any given moment & would therefore be able to tell me all about it.

[No6]

Harsh words there newbie. Here's a raw formula for why I feel property is fairly valued, just for you as it seems so important that I should have to explain myself to every new poster that comes along.

The places that I rent out yield about 6.1%. I can borrow money for 5.5% on a BTL mortgage & the yield therefore pays both my mortgages (just over 60% gearing) and leaves me about a 7% return (off the top of my head) on my capital in my properties. My fellow citizens can also borrow money at approximately the same rate. My feeling therefore is that at that yield & that IR, the valuation is approximately correct.

If IR's rise further, I will expect rents to rise to cover the higher IR & for example I may then yield 7% while paying say 6.5% on the mortgages just as an example.

If, for further clarification, rents weren't able to rise (say we were having a recession & tenants were moving back in with their parents) and IR's kept rising, I'd be concerned about valuations.

But I don't see that happening. What I do see happening is rents rising and maybe a few vendors sweating in a quieter market.

I also believe that if someone bought themselves a fancy new build and is renting it at a 4% yield (as an example) that they OVERPAID for their property and may suffer for it in the future.

So there you have it, just for you.

Let me know how the life of a bankrupt feels as I guess you're only 1 pay packet away from bankruptcy at any given moment & would therefore be able to tell me all about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TTRTR, do you have an exit plan and at what stage would it kick in? Or don't you feel the need to have one?

[Time to raise the rents.]

I do and I've put it out here on the forum before, I intend to sell 15 to 25 years from now whilst living in a country with no Capital Gains Tax. New Zealand is my favourite at the moment, but I'm willing to change it if necessary.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I do and I've put it out here on the forum before, I intend to sell 15 to 25 years from now whilst living in a country with no Capital Gains Tax. New Zealand is my favourite at the moment, but I'm willing to change it if necessary.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Beware TTRTR in the next 15 to 25 years tax laws can change in any country.

When the financial stewards are short in their coffers, they will rob their own grandmothers. Never bank on anything.

A little bit of bad news.

I purchase and buy online by credit card software upgrades from the US, Australia, and New Zealand, and pay in local currency. Great no local tax and the companies are very small with about 3 guys running them.

Without warning I am now charged VAT at 17.5% in the local currency.

According to information supplied by them they are required by their respective tax authorities to collect the tax on behalf of the EU under some EU directive regarding electronic transfers.

So gordon could be chasing you up yet.

Now what`s happened to duty free I ask myself

Edited February 3, 2005 by Charlie The Tramp

[Time to raise the rents.]

Fully aware of that. Let's hope the Tories remove CGT instead. That'd make it a lot easier!

I am also aware though that countries compete against each other for HNW people & there will always be a place where no CGT is payable.

A policy maker in Australia is trying to work out incentives to get Australian's to come home from overseas. I've emailed him personally and suggested they allow Aussies to sell OS assets free of CGT as an incentive to come home.

Got an email reply that it would be tabled to the people who need to hear it. So I'd love to see that become a new policy.

[jpjh]

I am also aware though that countries compete against each other for HNW people & there will always be a place where no CGT is payable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all the money you could make on them houses you can buy your own island or buy your way into a pre existing state and have your own tax laws

Of course that is assuming you can make money on them houses

On a more serious note the reasonably recent changes that require overseas companies to now charge VAT on goods destined for UK shores was quiet a change. Could a similar law come into place for UK assets being sold that are owned by overseas persons. Don't put it past GB he needs every penny he can pinch.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

Time to raise the rents. Posted Today, 09:51 PM

A policy maker in Australia is trying to work out incentives to get Australian's to come home from overseas. I've emailed him personally and suggested they allow Aussies to sell OS assets free of CGT as an incentive to come home.

Why do they want you to come home, I thought all the Aussies here had been deported from Aussie land.

[VacantPossession]

TTRTR,

What you fail to understand each time you post is that no one cares tuppence about your yields, your income, your situation, your property or your life.

The vast majority of bear posters here believe that property is way over valued, and that housing is just too expensive for most people. They have a desire for that situation to change. In pursuit of that goal, they may, just as some Bulls do, bend the stats or available info in their direction, but that's something you do yourself.

Actually the stats do not matter that much. What does matter is that whatever the trends, there is a significant body of people who are sick and tired of property being used as a vehicle for others to exploit for purely selfish reasons. They are also absolutely fed up with EA's and other property related professionals cashing in on the paranoia peddled by the press and media that at all costs everyone should buy a house at any price just so they can describe themselves as an owner, whereas in fact many of them are simply renting (in effect) from a buiding society.

It is clear to me that the "business" you operate is not run through any desire on your part to give good service to your tenants in return for a fair reward, but is entirely predicated on your assumption and desire that all property is going to rise in value relentlessly, regardless of any moral or economic conditions prevailing.

The problem with your position is that it has absolutely no philosophical, moral or human dimension. You are (or at least portray yourself) merely as an operator who has only one interest....profit for yourself. That would be all very well if the profit you seek has at its core any real use to society. It does not. You appear to exist solely to exploit, and seem to possess a mindset which is irretrievably focussed on this one goal above all others.

Your arguments and bullish stance appear to reject out of hand all or any hint that you may actually be even slightly wrong, and that in the face of overwhelming evidence that house prices are falling you continue to post anything you can lay your hands on which supports the opposite view, no matter how tenuous and flakey.

Even that would not particularly matter, except for the fact that you appear to be (as indicated by your many posts), a completely self serving person who is incapable of making judgements upon anything except where it is to your personal advantage.

For that reason you can hardly be surprised that your posts are not received with any enthusiasm by the majority of people here.

Goodnight,

VacantPossession

[hubba_bubba]

Harsh words there newbie. Here's a raw formula for why I feel property is fairly valued, just for you as it seems so important that I should have to explain myself to every new poster that comes along.

The places that I rent out yield about 6.1%. I can borrow money for 5.5% on a BTL mortgage & the yield therefore pays both my mortgages (just over 60% gearing) and leaves me about a 7% return (off the top of my head) on my capital in my properties. My fellow citizens can also borrow money at approximately the same rate. My feeling therefore is that at that yield & that IR, the valuation is approximately correct.

If IR's rise further, I will expect rents to rise to cover the higher IR & for example I may then yield 7% while paying say 6.5% on the mortgages just as an example.

If, for further clarification, rents weren't able to rise (say we were having a recession & tenants were moving back in with their parents) and IR's kept rising, I'd be concerned about valuations.

But I don't see that happening. What I do see happening is rents rising and maybe a few vendors sweating in a quieter market.

I also believe that if someone bought themselves a fancy new build and is renting it at a 4% yield (as an example) that they OVERPAID for their property and may suffer for it in the future.

So there you have it, just for you.

Let me know how the life of a bankrupt feels as I guess you're only 1 pay packet away from bankruptcy at any given moment & would therefore be able to tell me all about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TTRTR Care to give us the details on how you arrive at a rental yield of 6.1 ? Frankly I don't believe it.

[uk_jash]

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Housing+Market

Get your news stories here. Seems a bunch of fairly bullish news just came out to me & since you guys love poking holes in them, I thought I'd let you have this thread to work with!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I just clicked your link and the first story's title is

"Estate agent 'driven to suicide' by poor market" Independent 02:57

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/cgi/NGoto/84269555?-11530

I guess this poor sod didn't share your bullish view of the news!

[Guest wrongmove]

TTRTR Care to give us the details on how you arrive at a rental yield of 6.1 ?  Frankly I don't believe it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TTRTrs properties are bedsits. My having several people in a house he can just about pay the mortgage.

[Time to raise the rents.]

TTRTR,

What you fail to understand each time you post is that no one cares tuppence about your yields, your income, your situation, your property or your life.

The vast majority of bear posters here believe that property is way over valued, and that housing is just too expensive for most people. They have a desire for that situation to change. In pursuit of that goal, they may, just as some Bulls do, bend the stats or available info in their direction, but that's something you do yourself.

Actually the stats do not matter that much. What does matter is that whatever the trends, there is a significant body of people who are sick and tired of property being used as a vehicle for others to exploit for purely selfish reasons. They are also absolutely fed up with EA's and other property related professionals cashing in on the paranoia peddled by the press and media that at all costs everyone should buy a house at any price just so they can describe themselves as an owner, whereas in fact many of them are simply renting (in effect) from a buiding society.

It is clear to me that the "business" you operate is not run through any desire on your part to give good service to your tenants in return for a fair reward, but is entirely predicated on your assumption and desire that all property is going to rise in value relentlessly, regardless of any moral or economic conditions prevailing.

The problem with your position is that it has absolutely no philosophical, moral or human dimension. You are (or at least portray yourself) merely as an operator who has only one interest....profit for yourself. That would be all very well if the profit you seek has at its core any real use to society. It does not. You appear to exist solely to exploit, and seem to possess a mindset which is irretrievably focussed on this one goal above all others.

Your arguments and bullish stance appear to reject out of hand all or any hint that you may actually be even slightly wrong, and that in the face of overwhelming evidence that house prices are falling you continue to post anything you can lay your hands on which supports the opposite view, no matter how tenuous and flakey.

Even that would not particularly matter, except for the fact that you appear to be (as indicated by your many posts), a completely self serving person who is incapable of making judgements upon anything except where it is to your personal advantage.

For that reason you can hardly be surprised that your posts are not received with any enthusiasm by the majority of people here.

Goodnight,

VacantPossession

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's got to be my favourite thing about this forum, when people go on and on telling me about me. What a waste of time & effort!

Where do people get off doing that? I'll leave your beliefs alone & you can enjoy your closed little world all by yourself.

[Guest wrongmove]

I'll leave your beliefs alone & you can enjoy your closed little world all by yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that a promise ?

[Guest consa]

That's got to be my favourite thing about this forum, when people go on and on telling me about me. What a waste of time & effort!

Where do people get off doing that? I'll leave your beliefs alone & you can enjoy your closed little world all by yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Goodbye!! another one bites the dust

[Time to raise the rents.]

TTRTrs properties are bedsits. My having several people in a house he can just about pay the mortgage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, but no thanks. If I rented bedsits, I wouldn't be able to live outsde the UK becase I'd have tenants constantly leaving & I'd need to be constantly showing prospective tenants around.

I rent shared houses. The people I rent to take responsibility for the entire house as a group & save money themselves by sharing, but the number of people in each place (generally say 1/2 couples & 2/3 singles in a 4 bed house) make it possible to get above the rent that a family could afford.

But because they're responsible for the entire place, when one wants to leave, the others advertise to fill their room. This has been incredibly successful beyond what I imagined when I left for Sweden. I've never ever had to return to let a place because of tenants leaving. On the other hand, very few of the tenants I have are the same people as when I left for Sweden. They've just kept rolling forward with a mix of existing & new tenants. By the time the existing ones leave, I get to know & trust the newer ones & all seems to just keep going well.

I would recommend it as a model for anyone, you don't need an EA, just to be responsive to the tenants & they'll take care of the rest.

[Time to raise the rents.]

Goodbye!! another one bites the dust

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another person who misunderstands every post?

My message was to VP & you thought it was to you!

[Time to raise the rents.]

Well I just clicked your link and the first story's title is

"Estate agent 'driven to suicide' by poor market" Independent  02:57

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/cgi/NGoto/84269555?-11530

I guess this poor sod didn't share your bullish view of the news! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny story there, I loved this part:

"An estate agent is thought to have committed suicide after becoming worried about slumping property prices."

What would he care about prices? They only care about commissions & transaction volumes. If he's in debt (I imagine he was but they didn't say) & relying on commissions for an income, a slow market would do wonders to his anxiety level!

[Cityfool]

That's got to be my favourite thing about this forum, when people go on and on telling me about me. What a waste of time & effort!

Where do people get off doing that? I'll leave your beliefs alone & you can enjoy your closed little world all by yourself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

6.1% gross yield on domestic property is still not fantastic (historically closer to 10% would have been regarded as more normal and I have just been involved in a commercial property deal yielding 6.7% on a 15 year FRI lease secured to one of the stongest plc's in the country) but may be more or less sustainable as long as IR's stay low. However the 3.5% gross yield my landlord gets is not sustainable. Therefore my area is over valued. I don't think anyone is denying there may be (some) pockets of value out there just that taken as a whole the market is overpriced.

CF