Why Does Each Forum End Up As An Race Issue

[Yonmon]

This may not be a coincidence. Due to recessive genes, it is advantageous to procreate with a partner from another part of the world - that is mixed race babies tend to have good genes.

Inbreeding is very bad (look at the royal family).

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Racists want to "safeguard" the gene pool by preventing inter-race breeding, but actually the gene pool benefits the more open it is.

Ironic isn't it? (as Alanis Morrissette might sing, though not sure what she would have got to rhyme with "gene pool").

[Raven]

You mean we welcomed asylum seekers? Blimey! 

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not sure how you mean this, Yonmon. If you mean it how I think you do read on...

You make it sound like there are gangs of brits at the gates beating up people who try to enter the country.

Check out over countries, Asylum seekers are welcomed with open arms here!

What wou YOU have, fling the doors open, come in anyone , terrorist, kiddy fiddlers anyone, let them all in! All anyone want is some element of control. This country has welcomed refugees for centuries.

Can anyone tell me where I can get a pair of liberal blinkers as well, I'm tired of seeing the world how it actually is, i have no need for free thinking or comon sense, I want to join the hysterical liberal masses!

If not....

[Wuluf]

Muggers are mostly black - there is nothing racist about saying that.

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And most murderers in the Uk are white.. Nothing wrong with saying that either..

Its the causal relationship that is implied when using statements like that that worry people..

You may also find that most muggers are poor..

So is it the fact that they are black or the fact that they are poor that causes them to mug. Do we observe that poor whites in other parts of the world are also more likely to mug than their rich counterparts..? I think yes.. So the question is.. why are black people in the UK significantly poorer than whites.

In light of that you might find this interesting..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3885213.stm (probably larger sample needed BUT... only probably )

[Guest wrongmove]

Racists want to "safeguard" the gene pool by preventing inter-race breeding, but actually the gene pool benefits the more open it is.

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To defend Wrongmove, I think what they might be getting at is that nature loves variaty. A good mix of genes give natural selection the best chance to pick the best ones.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to clarify - the above is what I meant.

If you breed with someone who is genetically close to you (extreme example being cousin, sibling etc) then you will share many dangerous recessive genes which can then manifest as genetic disorders. The further away your partner, the less genetic material you have in common, and the less defective genes the child will have (on average).

[Raven]

it's a middle class misconception that people (in this country anyway) mug because they are poor. People mug because they are greedy! You may be poor oin this country but the state gives VERY generously, you don;t want for any thig you actually NEED.

You don;t get people who are working 50 hours a week but still cant make ends meet going out and mugging people. It's lazy greedy people white and black that go out and take from other people.

This is bad I agree but what about the possitive discrimination carried out by some high profile public departments that discriminate against white males to get numbers up, is that right?

[Guest wrongmove]

Its the causal relationship that is implied when using statements like that that worry people..

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Excellent point Wuluf - for example, speaking globally, most people who eat rice are poor and prone to disease. This does not mean that eating rice is dangerous though.

[Raven]

Just to clarify - the above is what I meant.

If you breed with someone who is genetically close to you (extreme example being cousin, sibling etc) then you will share many dangerous recessive genes which can then manifest as genetic disorders. The further away your partner, the less genetic material you have in common, and the less defective genes the child will have (on average).

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Glad to hear that

[Wuluf]

This is bad I agree but what about the possitive discrimination carried out by some high profile public departments that discriminate against white males to get numbers up, is that right?

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Actually.. yes..

I know that two wrongs dont make a right.. But I would suggest that zero wrongs or two wrongs are better than one.

[Raven]

Nooo it's wrong!!!

Can you explain why on gods green earth you can defend discrimination!

[Wuluf]

Nooo it's wrong!!!

Can you explain why on gods green earth you can defend discrimination!

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See above!

[Guest wrongmove]

This is bad I agree but what about the possitive discrimination carried out by some high profile public departments that discriminate against white males to get numbers up, is that right?

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I think a short period of positive discrimination can be justified, if its purpose is to redress a long period of negative discrimination. It should only ever be a tempory measure though, IMHO.

[Wuluf]

I think a short period of positive discrimination can be justified, if its purpose is to redress a long period of negative discrimination. It should only ever be a tempory measure though, IMHO.

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If positive discrimination is correctly targeted to bring a system back into balance then it will have no effect on an already balanced system.

[Raven]

I'm sorry but I couldn;t disagree more!!!!

So two people go for a job and you can happliy say to the white bloke, sorry mate the other guy i gay and we haven;t got enough of them so better luck next time.?

You guys are nuts.

Discrimination is WRONG

(repeat after me)

Discrimination is WRONG.

Level the playing field and let a fair balance be reach naturally. That is the only way to do it fairly. By all means promote the job to groups you want to attrect but for god sake! You can't place one person above the other no matter how much "sense" (I use the term loosely) it make to you. The scary thing is I[ve heard the right wing use very similar arguments for discriminating against ethnic minorities, they think that thier arguments "make sense" as well.

[RichM]

Positive discrimination is a nice idea, but in the long run will just drag out the problems. It's yet another form of "things aren't equal in society so we'll make it fair" policy that the present government seem so proud of.

So, if the ethnic minority candidate gets a job in a business or public service that practices PD. Does he/she know if it was because of the PD? Do his/her colleagues? How good is that for race relations?

And where do you stop? My parents are from a white working class background. No one has in my family has ever been to university, or even to 6th form. My parents decided that state schools are sh1t, and send me to a private school. Should I discriminated for, or against?

What about my brother-in-law, who is of Pakistani descent. He went to a private sixth form. Should he have been discriminated for or against? Of course he entered his 6th form by scholarship, but he still was the recipient of PRIVILEGE which is EVIL.

Plenty of people, white and ethnic minority, have worked their way out of "poverty"over the last 40 years, and even more would have done so had it not been for the woolly lefty-liberal policies which have encouraged a culture of state dependence. Single-parent families used to make up 1% of this country's families under Cromwell. This rate went up under Charles II, the Victorians brought it down again, and post-sixties - it's at least 17% maybe higher. It has been a social apocalpyse. Certain ethnic groups as well as the white chav underclass have been totally buggered by such societal shifts, and no government has done anything about it.

[Guest consa]

Whilst not agreeing or disagreeing with this thread or post, IMO its getting nowhere, what the hell has any of this got to do with house prices? no offence

[Wuluf]

I'm sorry but I couldn;t disagree more!!!!

So two people go for a job and you can happliy say to the white bloke, sorry mate the other guy i gay and we haven;t got enough of them so better luck next time.?

You guys are nuts.

Discrimination is WRONG

(repeat after me)

Discrimination is WRONG.

Level the playing field and let a fair balance be reach naturally. That is the only way to do it fairly. By all means promote the job to groups you want to attrect but for god sake! You can't place one person above the other no matter how much "sense" (I use the term loosely) it make to you. The scary thing is I[ve heard the right wing use very similar arguments for discriminating against ethnic minorities, they think that thier arguments "make sense" as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think for youself for a minute and refrain from repeating one of societies patently nonsensical mantras.. Discrimination is a fundamantal facet of capitalist societies. Implicit in the hierachical nature of employment and the fact that we currently have a 1-to-1 relationship between an employment and a job. The question is what type of discrimination do you allow?

We discriminate is all manner of ways in employment. Age.. sometimes.. Weight.. maybe.. Speed.. maybe.. Hair colour.. sometimes.. Race...? hmmm.. Class...? Attractiveness...? yes.. and so on..

The problem is that we have a system whereby the captains of insustry in the Uk are in the main white. I dont think that candidates should be chosen at interview based on under-representation. No... I think it would be better if the management were culled directly and replaced by minorities who could do the job.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I must say I can tell all you guys went to Uni.

[Wuluf]

So, if the ethnic minority candidate gets a job in a business or public service that practices PD. Does he/she know if it was because of the PD? Do his/her colleagues? How good is that for race relations?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ever wondered how the americans manage to work together even though they have a larger racial probelm than the UK.. Because they have realised that you do not have to like someone to be able to work with them. In the UK people are obsessed with "team fit" and "working relationships", "what would you colleagues think".. So what!

I think you are missing the point.. By asking how good is that for race relations you already confer the authority on the white population to be the arbiter of good race relations. The converse crime is already happening to non-whites - so how good is that for race relations? Unless of course you happen to believe that the rancour of whites carries greater significance (moral) than that of non-whites. (Tut Tut ) Lets say we promote one Indian and sack one Caucasian.. Then I would assume the net effect of that in terms of "amount of discrinination" would be zero. i.e. the Indian stiops suffering discrimination and the caucasian becomes the victim.

Whats the prblem with that?

[Raven]

You've got to be winding me up Wuluf! Seriously is this a wind up

Culling all the managemet and replacing them with ethnic minority candidates? Am I being filmed, I expect Jeremy Beedle to jump out of my desk!

I really don't know how to respond to such claptap! I was really begining to respect (if not agree) with your opinion on here and you've just blown me away with that!

You may be right that we discriminate on certain thing (some of it is inate and therefore hard to control) but there would be no excuse to go out and make a concious decition to discriminate against any group.

Hitler came back from WW1 and found the jews owned everything, we all know how he re-adressed the balance!

People should get things on merit and hard work, that's all.

Excellent post RichM, IMHO discrimination ("positive" or not) will cause more, not less, racial tension because people tend to get a bit touchy when they aren't treated equally, ask M.L.King. People will be more angry and more suseptable to people feed on anger and ignorance to produce hate.

Cull entire management, replace with ethnic minorities you crack me up hahahahaha

[Raven]

Ever wondered how the americans manage to work together even though they have a larger racial probelm than the UK.. Because they have realised that you do not have to like someone to be able to work with them. In the UK people are obsessed with "team fit" and "working relationships", "what would you colleagues think".. So what!

I think you are missing the point.. By asking how good is that for race relations you already confer the authority on the white population to be the arbiter of good race relations. The converse crime is already happening to non-whites - so how good is that for race relations? Unless of course you happen to believe that the rancour of whites carries greater significance (moral) than that of non-whites. (Tut Tut )  Lets say we promote one Indian and sack one Caucasian.. Then I would assume the net effect of that in terms of "amount of discrinination" would be zero. i.e. the Indian stiops suffering discrimination and the caucasian becomes the victim.

Whats the prblem with that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's morally corrupt thats all. And don;t put word in my moth I already said, make the playing field level and go from there.

Net amount of discrimination? Your having a bubble!

Where do you stop? We have enough indians now sorry, we need gays. We have enough gays now, we need lesbians!

What about athletics? Does the proportion of black sprinter meet the proportion of black people in this country? no it's greater, are you going to tell D.Chambers he has got to give his place up to a fat white kid rom slough to "make up the numbers? No.

Get a grip.

[Wuluf]

Cull entire management, replace with ethnic minorities you crack me up hahahahaha

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Ok.. raven.. I dont expect that to really happen.. Anytime sooon anyway.. And yes it wouldnt work in practice anyway (understatement!)

But I do agree with the princple of +ve dicsrimination and do not have an ounce of sympathy for those who control and profit from the current status quo.

I will think about some of the points you made and maybe come back to this topic later...

p.s.. I also think that a lot if the ideals that we are taught in society are just there to control us.. In effect the people at the top convince us to behave in a manner that is good for them but not good for us.. i.e. "Do what I tell you not what I do.." "Discrimination being abhorant" is one of them.. It happens all the time.. And we all do it.. It is more complex than that..

There is an image somewhere of a group of people all climbing on each other to reach a summit. And in the process of gaining purchase to hoist themselves further up this human pyramid they pull each other down. This combines to form a perpetual system where none really make any advancement.. And at the top you have a single individual looking down imperiously at the melee beneath them. [cant remember where I saw it..]..

[Raven]

Good discussion, I;m actually late so yeah, can we pic this up again at another time.

No I don't think I have been taught that by society. If I was to follow the herd as it were I would be a very racist, very bigoted person. However I like to think that I saw through all that and was able to make sense of some of that ill feeling and step outside and take a look at the spectrum left to right. We have all got our influences from somewhere and like yourself (i'm sure) I do try to form my own opinions.

I do understand the concept of that picture though, if you can find it let me know.

Speak to you soon, I'm late must go get drunk!

[Marina]

are you going to tell D.Chambers he has got to give his place up to a fat white kid rom slough to "make up the numbers? No.

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But how much did the fat white kid pay for his house? Has he got a house? Can he afford a house? Is he a potential first-time buyer. In the race to become a successful house owner has he been discriminated against? What's the market like in Slough. Surely we need the whole picture.

[Justice]

The British Medical Association was accused of being intuitionalist racist because 50% of complaints uphold by the BMA was against non white doctors and they only made up 30% or members.

But wait a minute, what are they doing at 30% if they only make up, or so we are told, 10% of the population and what’s that about immigrants only doing the jobs we don’t want. Never seen an asian empty my dust bin

If telling the truth makes me a racist then so be it.

[ubuntu]

The British Medical Association was accused of being intuitionalist racist because 50% of complaints uphold by the BMA was against non white doctors and they only made up 30% or members.

But wait a minute, what are they doing at 30% if they only make up, or so we are told, 10% of the population and what’s that about immigrants only doing the jobs we don’t want. Never seen an asian empty my dust bin

If telling the truth makes me a racist then so be it.

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How pathetic!

In the 60s and 70s many doctors were recruited from both India and Pakistan to prop up the NHS. They weere activley encouraged to do so as the medical training in these countries was based on the British model.

All the road sweepers around my area are immigrants, South American and North African origins.